Bio Engineer Archive

I *have* seen the stats on those creatures. Trust me, I despise nerfs with a passion.. but these little beasties are getting most of the good and very little of the bad.

Point in case - CL5 Gurreck, 48% resists down the board(no more than 2 vulns there), 9K Health(5K in others), sp1 blindness, sp2 stunning strike, ranged attack, 210-230 damage. What are the drawbacks here.. it attacks a bit slowly and won't hit often.. This definitely seems just a *bit* potent for CL5. Or CL10. Or CL15.

If these things were CL15-25, on par with the old GSP, I wouldn't bat an eye at their exsistence.. it's just that they aren't even CH exclusive, these are CL5-10 tanks that are comparable to the old cl 20(now more in line with high cl20, low cl30, creatures in the wild).

BTW, I am a CH dabbler, this patch destroyed my stockpile of cats..Idesirelow cl pets as much as much, or more even, than every other dabbler and non-CH. It's just that this IS an imbalance.. whether by design or bug, has yet to be determined though it is probably safe to assume the latter here. *shrugs* Guess we'll probably be finding out in the next week or two.. until then I'll keep trying to churn out cl10 critters that don't look like they go too far against the grain. Cheers!

Right well someone tells me that certain dna which has alot of zero resistances that goes into 1, 2 and 5 and then anything else in 3 and 4 leads to these kinds of results. Everyone agree's it's unbalanced, whatpeople cannot agree on is if it's allowed or not. Well if someone can provide us with a fair arguement of how something can be unbalanced AND fair then I'd aggree that it's not a bug and one that can be exploited.

The bottom line here is the new system was designed to overcome the situation where the CL ratings didnt have a bearing on the power of the mob. We've all been on the revieving end of the fact a rock bettle was far tougher than it's CL14 rating suggested. We all agreed it was stupid for one single species to be more powerful than all other similar rated animals in all situations. Therefore having critters like this which have stats of ones which are more than double the CL rating which are made via other means and found in the wild clearly shows that it's breaking the rules and the purpose of this new CL rating system.

It's really that simple, there should be no 'best' pets for each CL rating because it's supposed to be calculated. Stats should equal CL ratings so that the rating has a point.

---

Dvnce wrote:

but does that mean that i am forced to get CH skills now if i want to solo hunt.,. ??

---

The short answer is.... YES.

I hate it too. I love being able to play this game solo. That, however, is not the goal the Devs have, and they are changing things to realize their goal of a group based game.

Our desire for solo play < Dev's desire to see us group

---

Tal-N wrote:

Well if someone can provide us with a fair arguement of how something can be unbalanced AND fair then I'd aggree that it's not a bug and one that can be exploited.

The bottom line here is the new system was designed to overcome the situation where the CL ratings didnt have a bearing on the power of the mob.

---

I think these two bits of Tal-N's post point directly to the problem.

Rock Beetles (and the other super non-CH pets) were considered a problem in the game by the Devs. The Graul Mauler (and the other super 3/3/0/0 super pets) were considered a problem in the game by the Devs.

This system is allowing us to create pets in those categories (non-CH and dabbler) which, I dare say, outstrap their predecessors. Would someone put up an argument of how these super-pets fit the theme the Devs enacted with the CH / creature rebalancing?

I don't care one lick about the exploit argument. I just would like to see a logical argument on how these super-pets fit into the grand scheme the Devs are building.

---

Sumorex wrote:

The short answer is.... YES.

I hate it too. I love being able to play this game solo. That, however, is not the goal the Devs have, and they are changing things to realize their goal of a group based game.

Our desire for solo play < Dev's desire to see us group

---

Therein lies the problem. The Devs are ignoring the 2/3 of the player base that answered in a poll that they PREFER solo PvE play. They cannot force or even encourage grouping until you make it desirable or worthwhile for the player base to do so....Grouping in this game is for the most part TERRIBLY broken:

- It wasn't until a few months after release that they fixed /harvest in groups so all could harvest from creatures.

- Ninja looting is still rampant and there is no group autosplit for loot, at least thatI know of.....Credit autosplit has just recently been fixed after NUMEROUS attempts.

- Groupchat still has problems. XP the same.

- Mission waypoints are only seen by the one who took the mission.....makes taking missions as a group difficult and confusing.

This does not even mention the inherent conflicts of interest and goals that arise when grouping......

Overall, I would say this is one of the most group-unfriendly games I have seen - just my opinion, though <shrugs>.

I know all about the "Dev's vision" and how the creature balance fits into this overall scheme. I happen to disagree with it vehemently given the current state of the game in terms of content and grouping limitations. It is not my job to enforce this vision as a Bioengineer, Bounty Hunter, or whatever class I choose to play-let the Devs do that if they wish. But they had better pay attention to the 2/3 of their player base that wishes to solo and fix the problems with grouping if they want to keep subscribers.

I am not given to ranting and apologize for the tone of this post; however, this issue touches a nerve that goes all the way back to the initial discussions of Creature rebalancing when the interests of the regular "Joe Schmoe" solo player were completely ignored. (Note that I am not talking about Joe Schmoe getting out a Graul Mauler and soloing FS NPC's here, just doing some regular creature missions with a rock beetle or cowardly gurreck by you side......)

/rant off and back to the discussion

Are we sure that its a bug? Can it be chalked up to we are using lower quality DNA whereas the Masters are using VHQ? I Know all of my DNA is around the Average or Below Average maybe that is the key to this and since the masters are getting VHQ and getting FULL DNA whille us non masters are only getting fragments of it. Just a thought.

Norda

---

Anubi wrote:

I mean I understand that these results are undesirable from a game balance perspective, but to label it a bug, suggest that we should not be making clones if we are not masters, and to insinuate that anyone who does is an exploiter is frankly, Bull**edit**.

Yes, it does seem unbalancing. So did KD back in the beginning of the game. No one labled anyone who spammed KD in a fight to be an exploiter. Eventually the devs saw that it was unbalanced and corrected the issue ...

---

There is a clear difference between the two. In the case of how knockdown worked, it was working correctly, there was no bug relating to how often the person could trigger a knockdown, how long the target was knocked down, etc. However, in the case of sub CL 10 pets with CL 30 HAM, CL 40+ specials and CL 50+ damage, clearly there is some bug relating to how CL is being calculated. If master BE's cannot produce these same pets, then it's even more obviously a bug.

Since it's an obvious system bug, continued use of that bug to produce spurious sub CL 10 is an exploit. Using a system bug to produce erroneous but advantageous results is the very definition of an exploit.

---

CazzimirStylla wrote:

so basically the dev's just screwed up the way they make CL's for pets (again).

they factor unimportant stuff- speed and the prowess (or which ever controls the frequecy of specials) and ferocity into the making of a pet.

majority of non-ch only need low damage hi ham pets. tanking only, not really damage dealers. so by us sacrificing all the unimportant stuff the pets become extremely tough for their level.

---

---

Sumorex wrote:

---

Dvnce wrote:

but does that mean that i am forced to get CH skills now if i want to solo hunt.,. ??

---

The short answer is.... YES.

I hate it too. I love being able to play this game solo. That, however, is not the goal the Devs have, and they are changing things to realize their goal of a group based game.

Our desire for solo play < Dev's desire to see us group

---