Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Evidence shows we're not getting a fair trade of power for HAM
Gribnitz wrote:
Windsplitter wrote:
Gribnitz wrote:
Tal-N wrote:
I swear the average IQ has dropped lower than normal for some people today,
Yes it has. You are forgetting to add in the inherent advantage of allowing bio-pets to be buffed by doctors, fed master made chef food, and the inherent bonus of CH's buffing thier pets HAM and attack for short periods of time.
Now is a doctors buffs and chef foods being used on pets a bug or on purpose ? Droids don't get either of these, yet you want to swing the nerf bat even before anything goes live because you choose to see an inherent imbalance. Maybe this should be shouted from the tree tops like you chose to do on the DE forum.
Leave DE's alone. We haven't had anything but nerfs since launch and you are just trying to stir up controversy so we stay that way.
You cant force feed pets when they arent hungy and, there is no evidense that shows that chef food gives creatures the buff aside from healing their wounds. so petsmust nowrely on doctor buffs? when will they call that overpowering and nerf that too? How many CH's do you know buff their pets? No BE is asking for a DE nerf. we just want out own system fixed but not at the expense of getting others nerfed.
How else do you expect people to draw a comparison? Im sure if your combat droids were weaker than a CL10 BE creatin, you guys would be asking why your bots are underpowered too. Not like they are overpowered at all. Players dont even need pets when they are fully buffed and suited in composite
Tell that to Tal-N who is posting everywhere that the droids are overpowered so the Dev's see it. We don't even have the option to buff a droid, yet he is calling a probot overpowered compared to a "wild" CL 10 pet. a BE CL 10 pet is overpowered compared to a CL 10 pet too, and so it should be !! It is a player created item and should be more powerful than something crawling around in the wild, otherwise why even bother making one ? Try comparing a looted FWG5 to a player made FWG5. Quite a difference.
The bottom line is that pets are buffable and droids are not, plusdroids need batteries wherepets do not. There is your bonus you were looking for in an advantage of ptes over droids.
Don't scream at us. We were cheering for BE's when they got some boosts since you all were just like us but on the organic side. It is just painful for us to see a knee jerk reaction from one jerk who doesn't like someone else playing in the sand box.
Well done Tal-N. I finally get to give one of your post 5 stars.
Everyone, please. He's not calling for a DE nerf, but rather that webe allowed to make class 10 pets that are balanced with the upcoming droid changes. If the current probot is already more powerful at class 10 than the non-ch pets we can make now, then the new droids will be even more so...
Don't get me wrong, DE getting fixed is a great thing, but there's no reason that a class 10 droid should be vastly more powerful than a class 10 pet.
The day CH's can tame an equally powered CL 10 pet is the day I sign on to asking DE's to be nerfed before they've even had a chance to be fixed.
And since I know CH's aren't going to get anything anytime soon, thats a fairly safe bet.
- Pahbi
I've tried explaining this as clearly as possible for the DEs but all they see is the word 'nerf' and they go ballistic. I'm being unreasonable? Your the ones saying that because you have been ignored that you deserve overpowered pets, I've seen that mentality before. It was this community right after the new system came in, now look at whats happening. So let put this in very simple terms that you still won't understand.
Crafted CL10 pet = wild CL15 animal.
The new probot is actually breaking this rule. Current bio-engineered pets are also breaking it as we migrate damage into HAM. Here's an idea folks, take your pet and throw it against a current probot. We know that the current probot can fight and win almost against a CL14 mob so it's around CL14 itself. (as it should be) If your bio-pet cannot give the probot a balanced fight then it isn't actually a crafted CL10 pet with the stats of a CL15 like it is supposed to be.
NancyJ has tested it and has shown that the current probot stomps the high HAM pet. If the probot is as it should be, how can the overpowered non ch pet be losing so handily?
Further, how do you know that it is by design that HAM and damage should be traded equaly? Have you tested this? Have you run tests on equal level "wild" pets with differing HAM and damage stats so that you might back up your assertion?
How do you know that the devs do not take the position that armor is more important then damage, and the ability to prolong a fight is not more important thenactually winning?
You are making assumptions on how you think things "should" work. Not on how they actually do.
Tal, you contridict yourself by in the same post saying that current probots are "as they should be", roughly lvl 14, but that the current high HAM pet is over powered.
The high HAM pets are UNDERPOWERED, look at the damn topic you mook instead of skimming over it.
NancyJ has tested it and has shown that the current probot stomps the high HAM pet. If the probot is as it should be, how can the overpowered non ch pet be losing so handily?
..errr.. because it shows they're underpowered which is the point of this topic. Once again read it properly please.
Further, how do you know that it is by design that HAM and damage should be traded equaly? Have you tested this? Have you run tests on equal level "wild" pets with differing HAM and damage stats so that you might back up your assertion?
Ok here's a fact. When cloning when you increase HAM you increase the CL, when you increase the damage you increase the CL. What bio-engineers do with generationalizing is lowering the damage as their raise the HAM. This allows us to keep the CL the same. However the fault lies in that as we're trading damage for HAM (and vice versa naturally) the CL isn't staying the same at all. The animal is getting weaker when it shouldn't. The more generations they're going through the weaker the pet is becoming as you're seeing an unfair trade from damage to HAM (and vice versa) however the CL is remaining the same (or in some cases increasing). That is creating a FALSE CL which is why a CL10 clone is getting crushed by a CL10 probot, because the CL10 clone doesn't have the stats it should. So if the CL doesn't change as you swap damage for HAM then you must be having a fair trade off, but we aren't.
How do you know that the devs do not take the position that armor is more important then damage, and the ability to prolong a fight is not more important thenactually winning?
Because CL is a basis for toughness, as in what will defeat what. The duration that the battle takes is irrelivant. CL10 loses to CL20, CL10 can draw against CL10. The amount of time isn't a factor in toughness otherwise you'd find that a CL10 would be able to defeat a CL100 given a certain length of time. Which as we know isn't ever going to happen. Besides, what does that have to do with a balanced trade off? That a higher damage gives a higher rating? That is true, however this problem alos occours when trading HAM for damage so that throws you idea out of the window completely.
You are making assumptions on how you think things "should" work. Not on how they actually do.
Ask any bio-engineer and they'll tell you that the CL is effected by two major factors, the HAM and the DPS. It isn't assumption, that is fact.
First, how about you stick to the facts at hand instead of name calling.
Second, my point was about you contridicting yourself. How many times have you posted on these boards that the current crop of Non CH pets are wildly overpowered? In fact, you don't even have to look at the numerous other times you have posted this opinion. You say it right here in this thread. How is that possible if you say the current probot is at the correct level?
"Ok here's a fact. When cloning when you increase HAM you increase the CL, when you increase the damage you increase the CL. What bio-engineers do with generationalizing is lowering the damage as their raise the HAM. This allows us to keep the CL the same. However the fault lies in that as we're trading damage for HAM (and vice versa naturally) the CL isn't staying the same at all. The animal is getting weaker when it shouldn't. The more generations they're going through the weaker the pet is becoming as you're seeing an unfair trade from damage to HAM (and vice versa) however the CL is remaining the same (or in some cases increasing). That is creating a FALSE CL which is why a CL10 clone is getting crushed by a CL10 probot, because the CL10 clone doesn't have the stats it should. So if the CL doesn't change as you swap damage for HAM then you must be having a fair trade off, but we aren't.
Um... 6k/3k/2k pets, like the one NancyJ used is made in one generation. So, your example of generationalizing is not valid here.
"Because CL is a basis for toughness, as in what will defeat what. The duration that the battle takes is irrelivant."
In this example, you are taking the position that eqal cl means that two creatures should more or less fight to a draw. Well what if the devs don't have this narrow of a view? When a player uses a tank, they are not looking for a pet that can fight a mob to the death solo. They are looking for a pet that will keep the mob occupied long enough for them to finish it off. In this respect, HAM is a fair trade for damage.
I wrote: "You are making assumptions on how you think things "should" work. Not on how they actually do. "
You replied:
"Ask any bio-engineer and they'll tell you that the CL is effected by two major factors, the HAM and the DPS. It isn't assumption, that is fact."
I was not refering to your point about what effects CL. I was refering to the fact that you seem to think that the only thing that matters is that if one cl 10 can't beat another in a one on one fight then they are imbalanced. I wanted to know where you came up with this and did you test it?
Did you go to the trouble to test this theory like NancyJ did? Or is this just another opinion that you can't back up?
And how many times have people said I'm pig headed by always thinking I'm right? Dozens of times, I even said on this topic that I was wrong about this issue because upon further inspection it does seem we're being short changed somewhere.
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