Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: New Tailor Tissues
Washell
Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:12 pm
#14
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Well, the ones we always get asked for are the bonuses to combat speed, accuracy, and damage, and experimentation for the advanced artisan classes, but I consider those to be perhaps a bit overpowered so I'm going to recommend instead some that are more along the lines of some others we already have, but for a broader audience:
scout
terrain negotiation
ranger
camping/trapping
Terrain Negotiation is +100 troughout the scout/ranger trees but won't go higher then 95. Anything over 50 will only make you crawl faster. TN also works without Novice Scout so your basically giving 24 sp for free (Novice Scout + Exploration I to III). In other words a scout/ranger bonus giving little to no bonus to scout/rangers and a lot to the 32 other professions.
Camping bonus? All the camping mod does is to allow the placement of better camps. Could help with the grinding but atm the camps are mostly used to get around the 15-45 sec delay by CH's. Basic camp kit is the cheapest way to do that.
Trapping bonus could be usefull, especially if the Combat Revamp fixes the traps.
If you want to make scouts/rangers happy and buy be'd clothes get some +creature harvesting tissues in.
kujikiri
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:02 pm
#15
The thing with all tissues is that they are not interesting to make. We go out and get the best stuff we can, then experiment on one line with experimentation spread out over 3 stats. What if the tissues got changed a little so that there was a resist tissue with experiment lines for 4 different resists that each had different stats for experimenting. Then we could make a custom set of tissues that had a lot of 1 thing, or some of 2 things or maybe if all the stars aligned and the perfect resources were found have a lot of 2 resists. An entertainer tissue could experiment music heal/music buff/dance heal/dance buff, scout tissue could have several experiment lines, etc.
MBEs that took the time to max points in certain lines and get the best resources could then get a rep for more than just have +13 tissues in stock all the time.
MBEs that took the time to max points in certain lines and get the best resources could then get a rep for more than just have +13 tissues in stock all the time.
Meplorium
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:27 pm
#16
I understand the tailor delima on this and they do make the tissues into sub components which find their way into armor. So tailors are not out of the lop on this. Clothes don't do much for you, nor should they, when you get hit with 1k damage. So I don't see how clothes even factor into this debate. They are for the cantina, not the battle field. Unfortunetly we have many tissues useful for the battlefield and only one useful in the cantina. We need the current tissues made more usuable before adding yet more tissues that won't be used. Only way I can see that happening is addtissues intoarmor or have armor not replace clothes. Otherwise it says as is and more of the unused same just doesn't help.
MickGrey
Wed Aug 04, 2004 1:32 pm
#17
I wear a Stun Defense +16 / Melee Defense +4 undershirt underneath my Composite armor. When I'm out sampling DAN, though, I switch to wearing my Mask Scent +16 / Camouflage +16 undershirt underneath my armor. This system works quite well for me.
Perhaps an option that would satisfy Tailors AND us AND Armorsmiths would be undergarments, in addition to the existing shirt, that can be worn along with armor. For example, why can't those tight Hotpants be worn underneath your blunky Composite leggings? Or they could create new garments altogether and specifically classify them as undergarments
Perhaps an option that would satisfy Tailors AND us AND Armorsmiths would be undergarments, in addition to the existing shirt, that can be worn along with armor. For example, why can't those tight Hotpants be worn underneath your blunky Composite leggings? Or they could create new garments altogether and specifically classify them as undergarments
NancyJ
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:01 pm
#18
Thing you need to bear in mind about tailors is they're not like us, tailoring is not like any other craft.
1. Most tailors are not happy to be subcomponent crafters, saying that they but the tissues into synth and rfps for armour and should be happy just to sell them on is not going to go down well with them.
2. Tailoring isnt about money its about clothes and customer service. Its a social profession as much as it is a craft profession - theres no way as a tailor you can keep your vendor stocked with all the disgusting combinations of colours and outfits your clientelle will ask for, thats where the social side comes in to play, interacting with customers is a big part of being a tailor.
Clothes need to be a viable choice vs armour from a game balance and starwarsyness PoV.
1. Most tailors are not happy to be subcomponent crafters, saying that they but the tissues into synth and rfps for armour and should be happy just to sell them on is not going to go down well with them.
2. Tailoring isnt about money its about clothes and customer service. Its a social profession as much as it is a craft profession - theres no way as a tailor you can keep your vendor stocked with all the disgusting combinations of colours and outfits your clientelle will ask for, thats where the social side comes in to play, interacting with customers is a big part of being a tailor.
Clothes need to be a viable choice vs armour from a game balance and starwarsyness PoV.
ArthurDentOnBria
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:08 pm
#19
Meplorium wrote:
I understand the tailor delima on this and they do make the tissues into sub components which find their way into armor. So tailors are not out of the lop on this.
lol, ok, so chefs then would be perfectly happy seeing all their customers buying much more powerful spices rather than their food then... just so long as the spiceshad a cheaply made, unexperimented component like an "alcohol" that only a chef (anynoob chef)could make in it? Is that what you're telling me?
Ok, and I apologize for hijacking this thread. I've stated how I feel and I'm done now 
Meplorium has a point. If we sold to armorsmiths rather than tailors our sales would rocket to the moon, and all the gunbunnies would be deleriously happy trodding around in their composite. Should I just start collecting high quality leathery and wooly hide now for my upcoming career change? lol
Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 08-04-2004 02:23 PM
NJ62
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:16 pm
#20
Armorsmiths are going to get tissues over my cold dead body.
We make pretty clothes for the cantina? No, that view is narrow and insulting.
Armor is overpowered, and that is being addressed in the combat balance. As for tissues in armor - it was possible for about a week when BE was fixed and it was a BUG which was removed from the game.
Simply put, you aren't supposed to be able to have your cake and eat it too. There needs to be some sort of benefit to wearing clothing, or to mixing and matching clothing with armor. To give armor enhancements is to make enhanced clothing worthless, because obviously enhanced armor is a superior product. That would be a serious and unwarranted nerf of the tailoring profession.
So, in closing, I think I speak for the majority of tailors when I say "NO NO NO, and finally NO."
We make pretty clothes for the cantina? No, that view is narrow and insulting.
Armor is overpowered, and that is being addressed in the combat balance. As for tissues in armor - it was possible for about a week when BE was fixed and it was a BUG which was removed from the game.
Simply put, you aren't supposed to be able to have your cake and eat it too. There needs to be some sort of benefit to wearing clothing, or to mixing and matching clothing with armor. To give armor enhancements is to make enhanced clothing worthless, because obviously enhanced armor is a superior product. That would be a serious and unwarranted nerf of the tailoring profession.
So, in closing, I think I speak for the majority of tailors when I say "NO NO NO, and finally NO."
NancyJ
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:28 pm
#21
*huggles n'Jessi*
Anyone notice that she shows up shortly after someone mentions Hawtpants!?
Anyone notice that she shows up shortly after someone mentions Hawtpants!?
Suenr
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:41 pm
#22
I still think the solution is more clothing that can be used under armor. Who in their right mind throws on armor without having something on underneath it? Why can't we have some pants, more shirts, socks, and bodysuits that can be worn under armor? It would make sense, it would keep tissues to tailors only, and also give the option to get the effect of bio-clothing while still wearing armor. Instead of forcing people to make a choice (a choice which is painfully obvious for fighters), why not give them the ability to wear both? Then instead of pitting tailors against armorsmiths, they can both sell their best wares to the same customers.
NancyJ
Wed Aug 04, 2004 2:47 pm
#23
Suenr wrote:
I still think the solution is more clothing that can be used under armor. Who in their right mind throws on armor without having something on underneath it? Why can't we have some pants, more shirts, socks, and bodysuits that can be worn under armor? It would make sense, it would keep tissues to tailors only, and also give the option to get the effect of bio-clothing while still wearing armor. Instead of forcing people to make a choice (a choice which is painfully obvious for fighters), why not give them the ability to wear both? Then instead of pitting tailors against armorsmiths, they can both sell their best wares to the same customers.
thats still a case of having your cake and eating it - and lets face it, if its under your armour, who cares what your clothes look like.
Not that 90% of customers have a shred of originality in their bodies.... there are 254 other colours beside black you know!!! *grr*
Suenr
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:03 pm
#24
For those who wear armor 100% of the time, does it matter what the clothes look like? At least it would open up some more customers for tailors even if they do lack fashion sense. I myself don't wear my armor 100% of the time and it does matter to me what my clothes look like. I actually have clothes and armor that match pretty well so I can mix and match the pieces I wear. My clothes and armor are all either blue, black, or black and blue. I figured black and blue was a good color combo for a BE since we are constantly being beat that color by creatures for sticking needles in their butts.
Lozareth
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:14 pm
#25
NancyJ wrote:
thats still a case of having your cake and eating it - and lets face it, if its under your armour, who cares what your clothes look like.
Not that 90% of customers have a shred of originality in their bodies.... there are 254 other colours beside black you know!!! *grr*
Yeah, but black on blackalways matches, never goes out of style, and stains don't often show up on it. It's the color of choice for the fashionably lazy like me.
Message Edited by Lozareth on 08-04-2004 03:15 PM
Meplorium
Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:27 pm
#26
I feel this thread is rather pointless then. I don't see them putting more wear sockets in the game so people can have clothes and armor just for the purpose of tissues. The fact is adding more tissues when the current tissues are under utilized is a waste of development time. So of those tissues are excellent.I would rather see something useful be added to the game.
Just one question for those tailors, have you thought about armorsmithing? Right now it is boring because it's just one suit that anyone can change colors on. There are other suits with a lot of color options. Tissues would make these other suits custom jobs that fall between clothes and armor. It would give new life to that play style and make it more interesting. Also all those people runing around in composite would have reason to think about fashion since they have a choice, even if it is in the form of armor. Just lowering the base and adding in a vuln to the current armor won't change how things are. People will still use the best armor out there, even if it was less powerful. The key is making two different choices that can be equally as powerful. I don't see clothes with added tissues out doing armor at any point. I also don't see how a knee-jerk reaction to a suggestion without exploring it's possibilities and merits is helpful. It would actually be a boost to that play style although maybe not to the tailor profession itself.
With that said there are options for non-combat tissues that can be looked at. That leaves with you crafting tissues, not likely but can't hurt to ask, or with more enterainer/scout tissues. A tissue for enhancing meat harvesting may go over as there always seems to be a meat shortage. Either way I would like to see how our current tissues can be made more useful rather than just adding in more stuff that has low interest.