Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Critter Resource Availability
JayBurns wrote:
Achange to add more harvests to the ranger tree could be tough to implement. Changing the entire structure of code for harvesting creatures is a bigger task that many might suspect (this means the base numbers for every creature harvestwould need to be revamped), which is why the developers have shyed away from it. And all this does is add less overall value to creature organics, since there willsimply be more quantity. More rangers with triple or quadruple harvesting ability would mean creature organics could get close to machine harvested resources in the raw amount available on the market ata giventime. Ithink what needs to be done is strike down the real problem that is the novice scout+hunting 1/2/3/4harvesting, even if the "creature decay" that I mentioned earlier is just as tough to implement on all the weapons, there are other potential fixes.
JBurns
P.S. I am trying to get master scout right now and I agree whole heartedly about traps needing enhancements.
Nah, it's a database. A single update SQL would do it if you apply a set formula. But the problems are so deep-rooted in the design of the program that they're not easily fixable, if at all. For example, it makes no sense to have factories in the game when one of the resources can only be gathered by hand. That's like opening a ketchup plant and telling your neighbors to plant tomatoes in their garden and pick em by hand. Though it does change the grind side from crafting to harvesting.
The thought occurs to me that maybe those items were never meant to be made in factories. (Far be it for SOE to ever let us know such things). The demand from factory/grinders drives the price up; since the holo grind, resources have gone up by a magnitude. But you are right.. if it is supply and demand, changing the quantity will only mean the same total credits.
Solo4114 wrote:
Nothing that any of us have suggested would REQUIRE people to find a smuggler. It'd just be more beneficial for them to do so. Contraband is an opt-in system like PvP. you don't HAVE to own a sliced gun. That's your choice. IF you then want to move it around the galaxy, you take that chance knowingly.
As for the taxed goods idea we've thrown around, you can still go on playing the game. Just pass the costs of taxes on to your customers. The economy will adjust. It always does.
So far, aside from the "it's just not fun" argument, none of the players have put forth an argument as to how either of these two general changes would be so incredibly detrimental. For contraband, people argue that they "need" it because they have to be competitive in PvP or because they've basically gotten used to it. I'm sure folks were used to their AT-STs and Graul Maulers too, but they got over those changes. With the taxed goods, again, just pass the buck. That's how the real world works anyway. Maybe your profit margin won't be as great, but so what? Money is easy to get in this game. It's just a question of time, like everything else in the game, and how much time you put in regularly. There's nothing particularly difficult about any of it, nor does it require any particular ingenuity. Just keep running missions and the money will come. Just keep killing stuff and you'll get your XP sooner or later. So, it's not like if prices go up by, say, 40 creds per item, it'll break people's banks, or if crafters start only making 140% profit instead of 200% profit they'll all go broke.
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
if you made everything so easy that even the casual player will reach the levels of success that others do in as much time, then you're no longer in danger of alienating the casuals, but rather everyone else.
Mierra wrote:
well, there are a number of things that very casual players (or extremely casual in the case of a novice doctor playing since launch) will never really achieve that other more regular players will. things such as being an above-average crafter who produces good quality products, an effective combatant on the field of pvp, a politician who runs a city, becoming a Master Ranger even, all require a certain amount of dedication, time, and patience to achieve. people who invest this time and effort will reach their goals, those who are casual will not, and it's as it should be really.
if you made everything so easy that even the casual player will reach the levels of success that others do in as much time, then you're no longer in danger of alienating the casuals, but rather everyone else.
I'm not trying to argue against this point. I just want to make sure people think about how such changes might affect the casual player. A casual player would have to spend quite a bit of time and money to collect any decent resources. Making them spend even more makes it almost impossible to play. Adding a tax to resources mainly hurts the casual player. There is no reason a Novice Doctor shouldn't be able to make advanced components. But a resource tax might make it so that only Novice Doctors that play a lot have any chance of success. I know people who have grinded Doctor crafting by using advanced components. For them, this tax wouldn't do anything. But it would definately hurt the player who just doesn't have the time to devote. Their stims will still be worse than a powergamer's. But they can take some pride in making them.
Even if the casual player doesn't collect resources, the taxes will be passed onto them when they go to buy weapons or armor. And this makes it extremely difficult for the casual player to go out and have fun. A resource tax would barely affect the powergaming crafter. They might not bother to hire a Smuggler because they just pass on the cost to their shoppers. But when the casual gamer goes to shop, what can they do? They would have no chance of affording the weapons or armor and would be even worse off.
There just needs to be some balance here. You need a system that will make the casual players want to play more. And you need a system that makes the powergamers want a Smuggler. Making the system so strict that it is impossible to play for anyone without a significant time investment is not really an option. Hindering a casual player is not a good way to go about this. You want it so that the casual player doesn't see much of the downside. Because they won't know a Smuggler anyway.
Lythender Nirou
Master Ranger/Master Rifleman
Eclipse Server
I support you 100% on this! My BE character has to pay high prices for meat and other needed resources, which she burns through at an alarming rate.
Meanwhile, my Ranger character debates whether she should waste any more skill points on a profession where 3 of the 4 trees are almost useless, and the 4th tree has only marginal benefit. As for wanting to keep the prices high, I would be happy to be able to bring a much larger stack of meat or hide to my customer for the same price. It would give being a Ranger some value and meaning.
I would also support an increase in the amount of eggs, fish, mollusks and milk that a Ranger can harvest. As it is now, it is almost impossible to get enough of these resources to make items needing these in any quantity.
A very well written proposal, I wish you luck with it!
GuardianHawk wrote:
Let me ask from a Ranger's perspective.
100 avain meat * 100 cpu = 10,000 credits
or
1000 avain meat * 10 cpu = 10,000 credits
if it is the same amount of work the only difference will be the amount of Buffs that are made, not the income for Rangers.
Gyopi wrote:
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
What you are saying is that the hide we can harvest the most of is what you use. Thatis along the lines of a larger harvesting mod is good for tailors. Also keep in mind that the economy is different on every server.
I think his point is that since the quality of our hides doesn't matter, we tend to either get our own if we have some scouting, or buy cheap hides off the bazaar or from novice scouts who are grinding. Its just a matter of economics. There aren't many ways for rangers to make money and they main means of support is gathering hides and meat. If you have the chance to either gather 50-100cpu hides for armorsmiths or 5-8 cpu hides for tailors, you would be foolish not to try to get the hides that you can sell for more. I'm also pretty sure that most rangers are not going to put aside a little of the expensive hide to sell us cheap.
But, if Rangers can fill their higher priced orders more quickly, then they would have more time to collect the lesser quality stuff. Also, we want the ability to harvest multiple resources off of a critter and if we could, we would be able to collect grind quality resources at the same time as we collect the high quality stuff.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
But, if Rangers can fill their higher priced orders more quickly, then they would have more time to collect the lesser quality stuff. Also, we want the ability to harvest multiple resources off of a critter and if we could, we would be able to collect grind quality resources at the same time as we collect the high quality stuff.
Calculus_Entropy wrote:
But, if Rangers can fill their higher priced orders more quickly, then they would have more time to collect the lesser quality stuff.
GuardianHawk wrote:
In the end, increasing the harvisting rate won't kill the market it will just mean there are more docs out there working and using more Buff packs and players will be getting more buffs.
Let me ask from a Ranger's perspective.
100 avain meat * 100 cpu = 10,000 credits
or
1000 avain meat * 10 cpu = 10,000 credits
if it is the same amount of work the only difference will be the amount of Buffs that are made, not the income for Rangers.
In an inflationary market (such as this one), prices will not drop that much, as long as you don't have 1000 Rangers suddenly cut all prices. I'm willing to pay 100-300 CPU for good meat right now as a doc. Odds are, people like me will be benefited the most. The insane buyers.We now get meat cheaper.However, you are now opening the market up to the people that can't afford to pay that much. So you'll have me buying my meat at 100 CPU, but you'll also have TONS leftover to stockpile for the other docs to buy. And because you can harvest more, the equations would look like this:
For about an hours harvesting:
100 Avian @ 100 CPU = 10000
1000 Avian at 20 CPU = 20000
Remember, cost regression is not a linear function with production. Just gotta sell at the highest possible price.
i support increased harvesting for scouts and rangers.
vinoe<WE>--wanderhome
I don't feel that using a trap to kill (or significantly wound) a creature would be unbalancing as long as it doesn't give as much combat experience as the traditional way does. Also, I'd wonder wether it would be fair to allow this method to aquire things like woolamander bone fragments and kyrat dragon pearls. The multi-harvest would take little to implement, the effective traps idea would though.
I am ok with the idea of Rangers getting to harvest more than one type of resource from animals at some point in their developement. I mean Ranger really gives nothing as it is right now. I think the below idea is interesting too:
Aynianu wrote:
One solution in my eyes would be to add an alternative way to harvest.
You mentioned combat proffessions can harvest more than rangers if they have just novice scout, because they kill faser.
How about giving rangers the ability to trap animals in such a way to make them snared much like a hunter does with a rabbit in the wild.
You can just go upto it and kill it, harvest all in one, no combat involved unless the trap fails