Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: TH '19 answers', again showing he doesn't know what he's talking about
Bio-Engineer: When will we get more documentation of the cloning system and if we can't get it, why? Every other craft able item in the game with experimentation lists percentages of what stat affects the final product. Even the most basic documentation is lacking from cloning like aggressiveness of skins, and minimum CL. The larger percentage of BE's that do not read these boards have no access to this information.
Bio-Engineering was designed so that players could play out being a genetic engineer. Genetic engineering is not an exact science in that duplicating results is currently a nigh impossible task. Hypothetically speaking, maybe you want to add a gene to a bunny rabbit to make a green glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbit, and it works and you have a green glow-in-the-dark bunny. So then you want to make another green glow-in-the-dark bunny but when the second process is complete, the bunny rabbit only glows 5 days out of the week instead of 7 because of some recessive gene the scientist wasn’t aware of.
Based on giving the profession a realistic feel, the profession in the game is not an exact science either. As such, all of the formulas are non-linear. There are random elements designed into the process.
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The question is... why don't we have documentation for the CL ratings, aggressiveness ect..
The reply was... (totally unrelated to the question) sony things that genetic engineering should be a 'crap shoot' crafting profession
So let me get this right then. What we have is a non-specific crafting process that has to work within a very specific classification system. If the results are supposed to be specific (ie. a certain CL rating that the customer needs) the bio-engineer by design is apparently unable to provide that service with any degree of accuracy. I'm sorry but that is unreasonable for a crafting process that needs very unique materials and requires alot of invested time to produce something. I might say its fair to have a certain amount of randomness however that still doesn't explain why there is no CL rating indicator on the template as you are experimenting on the stats.
What really gets me though is that TH did not answer the question, we asked why our crafting process does not even have the most basic of official documentation. The reply was that there are random factors to the process however any bio-engineer will tell you that while that is true there is enough fixed factors to have reproducible results and its those things we'd like some firm clarification on. If the system was totally random then I'd say he answered the question, however we all know that it is not.
Message Edited by Tal-N on 04-23-2004 06:05 AM
The sad thing though, this is as good as it's going to get for us. At least for a while.They've given us our "guide", and answered our #1 question. Now that our designer is working on the Jedi revamp, can we really expect to get any more attention, or answeres? He'll be working on that for at least 3-4 months.Meanwhile we've had none of our issues resolved, or even seriously considered since our own revamp 4 months ago.
With out Keldarin working on BE, and due to TH's gross mis-understanding about our profession, we can't realisitcally expect any new skins, class to show on the combine, an answer to our dna stacking question, or to get an answer about validity. All indications are that we won't get any attention for a long time to come.
So where does this leave our profession? And what does our CorrespondentTalthazar think about all of this? Last time the Devs burned him, he disappeared for nearly a month.Nearly a week now since our "guide", and nothing from our leader. Not that there's much to say, I just hope he's still around.
Yes, this is very disappointing. Saying that BE cloning randomness explains it all is an insult to our intelligence (and we *are* inelligent since it seems we can write better guides than the devs can). And that does not explain why we cannot see the CL slowly creep up during experimentation. Tal-N is right, there are so elements that are easily reproducible and yet we have to guess them. Show us the CL and half of the BE outcries will be silenced. In this instance, throwing this bone would actually work.
The BE cloning system is not that random. I'll tell you what's random: the devs answer to anything BE-related... there's randomness for ya.
BE guide we got? There's a assembly that should have critical failed. Hopefully they would have written a nice one from scratch then.
Bio-Engineering was designed so that players could play out being a genetic engineer. Genetic engineering is not an exact science in that duplicating results is currently a nigh impossible task. Hypothetically speaking, maybe you want to add a gene to a bunny rabbit to make a green glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbit, and it works and you have a green glow-in-the-dark bunny. So then you want to make another green glow-in-the-dark bunny but when the second process is complete, the bunny rabbit only glows 5 days out of the week instead of 7 because of some recessive gene the scientist wasn’t aware of.
Erm, that's totally false. Cloning, in the research sense, is a very tightly controlled process. Once someone makes a genetically-modified animal and the said animal is phenotypically and genetically characterised, all other animals made with the same genetic mutation share exactly the same phenotype. If it wasn't the case, I would be out of a job. The fact that gene expression can be so tightly controlled in lab animals provides the basis of the investigation. The fact that a certain gene has been deleted in a transgenic animal allows us to investigate that gene's function by the effcts of it's absence. If it were affected by some unknown "recessive gene", it would defeat the whole point of the exercise. It seems that TH has been watching too much of the Discovery Channel, if all he can come up with is a poor interpretation of the effects of constitutive expression of Green Flourescent Protein (that's what it's called, TH) in mammals.
ArmAvan wrote:
Bio-Engineering was designed so that players could play out being a genetic engineer. Genetic engineering is not an exact science in that duplicating results is currently a nigh impossible task. Hypothetically speaking, maybe you want to add a gene to a bunny rabbit to make a green glow-in-the-dark bunny rabbit, and it works and you have a green glow-in-the-dark bunny. So then you want to make another green glow-in-the-dark bunny but when the second process is complete, the bunny rabbit only glows 5 days out of the week instead of 7 because of some recessive gene the scientist wasn’t aware of.
Erm, that's totally false. Cloning, in the research sense, is a very tightly controlled process. Once someone makes a genetically-modified animal and the said animal is phenotypically and genetically characterised, all other animals made with the same genetic mutation share exactly the same phenotype. If it wasn't the case, I would be out of a job. The fact that gene expression can be so tightly controlled in lab animals provides the basis of the investigation. The fact that a certain gene has been deleted in a transgenic animal allows us to investigate that gene's function by the effcts of it's absence. If it were affected by some unknown "recessive gene", it would defeat the whole point of the exercise. It seems that TH has been watching too much of the Discovery Channel, if all he can come up with is a poor interpretation of the effects of constitutive expression of Green Flourescent Protein (that's what it's called, TH) in mammals.
...pwned
Very well said ArmAvan...
That's what I love about such a huge community of players, we're not all computer programmers or accountants... if you just play the odds, it becomes statistically 100% probable there is at least one real bio-engineer or lab technician here in the SWG community. And he just proved TH wrong. Granted, his Dr. Frankenstein analogy *did* have randomness involved, but then again Dr. F did not have to deal with DNA sample qualities and over 20 quantifiable attributes for each. We do...
And the SW Episode II analogy is correct... cloning in SW *is* and exact science... seems like if we follow that logic, we ought to be able to make clones in factories as well to generate 1000's of identical clones once we find the proper recipe. And yet, we can't, while all other professions can.
Thunderheart, this is not a game of "we're right, you're wrong"... this is simply a matter of making our profession right, making us equal with our other crafter peers, giving us the info we need, and locking it in line with the SW vision.
Ok, I just read the 19, and it has some good stuff in there (unfortunately, very little for us).
To respond to Tal-N's comments and a ThunderHeart's "answer" I will say that I originally agreed with Tal-N, and was thinking, you didn't even answer the question. I felt, that TH put the question up there, then said, 'hey, look over here at this glowing bunny, ok, next question...', but after re-reading it, and trying to set aside my anger and frustration I came up with this.
Question:
"When will we get more documentation of the cloning system and if we can't get it, why?"
That is the question, we have some extra text afterwards trying to justify why we think the answer to the question should be yes.
Thunderheart's answer, (w/out the glowing bunnies) is
Answer:
No
Message Edited by drezbizkit on 04-23-2004 10:19 AM
Why the heck does he always get "cutsey-poke-mon" with us and CH??
I'd be more inclinded to do a green glowing Rancor than a "bunny rabbit"...
Kudos to the bio-lab guy, nice comeback.
Tal-N wrote:
snip - snip - snip
Hypothetically speaking, maybe you want to add a gene to a bunny rabbit