Bio Engineer Archive

Thread: Bio-Engineer CU issues

ArthurDentOnBria
Mon Apr 11, 2005 1:59 pm
#1














I'd like this thread to be a compilation of the issues that we have that are specific to bio-engineering and the CU. I'm only going to post verified issues, not speculation. So if you have any to contribute based on your testing, please list them here.




    • Dna sampling too difficult because we are: a) too low a combat-level, b) have armor that offers insufficient kinetic protection
    • CreatureSpecial Attacks not showing up on the DNA
    • Dna samples from higher level animals (26+) on have 1000 fortitude & 1000 dependability
    • Cannot craft usable pets withthe 1000 fortitudeDNA as it is pushes the CL too high to be useful (i.e. CL 150+)
    • crafted pets come out with a "to-hit" of 0
    • Hunting 4 is a pre-requisit on TC even though in the documents we've seen only medical crafting 4 is listed as the only pre-req.
    • There is a fairness problem because dabbler with 0-4-0-4 can actually outcraft a master BE if he has +20 medical experimentation skill tapes (which many doctors do)
    • Many BE's feel there is no longer sufficient benefits in the master level box
    • Some feel the resource requirements of the medical enhancers still does not provide a reasonable cost/benefit ratio.
    • enhancers for doctors not working properly
    • tailor tissues granting obsolete or useless skill mods
    • pet stims have very little usefulness with high regen rate of pets, low power of pet stims, and 60 sec timer.
    • pre-CU crafted pet stims do not work at all
    • pet conversion is extremely inconsistent. Some armored pets go through the pet check, some don't and get re-speced to CL 100+. Some non-ch pets with > 10k of HAM are invalidated, and some aren't.

Message Edited by ArthurDentOnBria on 05-02-2005 11:32 AM



ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer
Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005
custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003"
Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%


Eskie
Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:05 pm
#2

scout besides medic xxx4 as pre-requisite implemented on Test Center.



Eskona Runningstar
12pt Master Doctor - Master Riflewoman
Light Jedi Padawan
-ERI- medical supplies CLOSED

Left to explore new galaxies far, far away
after this galaxy had been enhanced far too much for her taste
droid327
Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:35 pm
#3


I havent been able to get on and test much since elites went online, but I'd be very interested if one of the NBEs out there posted some screenies of DNA samples and templates and a finished creature deed, so we can see what kind of stats they have on them, now that HAM has been revamped and resists are apparently gone.


Right now, it looks like hardiness, cleverness and power are the only stats that are going to make any difference on a pet, since they affect max H (andthus H recharge rate?)and DPS, respectively.

Message Edited by droid327 on 04-11-2005 03:36 PM



Jekk Badlander
Lowca
Commando - Rebel Pilot
------------------------------------------------
Factor
AJedimasterNow
Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:44 am
#4

I just have a question what the heck can I make for crafting exp to go up the medical tree? only thing I see while standing next to the public crafting station in chemical is stimpack, which takes biological controller ( OR whatever)which I can't seem to make, if this takes a personal crafting station this req needs to be changed and if I'm just blind please tell me where to look so I can get up med crafting to become a danged BE.



Rachna Wildfire (RW Bio-engineered pets and products)
Bio-engineering Bloodfin's Pets
Among the best(Recently cracked 8k h and 450dmg)
Shop is located on naboo, -3979,3475. if you need anything petwise contact me.
A Member of Ahriman Keep on Naboo
Nearest Shuttleport Theed
Nearest Starport: Theed
Raziya Wildseed - BH/CH
Dorelli
Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:54 am
#5

Arthur:


  • CreatureSpecial Attacks not showing up on the DNA

  • Higher Level Animals (26+) on Dantooine have 1000 fortitude

  • Cannot craft usable pets with above DNA as it is pushed to too high a level to use

  • Pure BE's without any combat do not last long enough in even advanced recon armor

Raziya


Stimpack A's do take BEC's and LS's but they are optional in them. So just make stim A's until you can make the BEC's and LS's. Suggest you plant a factory to produce crated BEC's and LS's as soon as you get the recipes and as soon as possible: a flora harvester, a water harvester, and a fiberplast harvester oh and an ion generator for power.




Dorelli Deacon of Bloodfin server
RIP BioEngineering 15-11-2005 : RIP CH 15-11-2005

Hylidex
Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:03 am
#6






AJedimasterNow wrote:

I just have a question what the heck can I make for crafting exp to go up the medical tree? only thing I see while standing next to the public crafting station in chemical is stimpack, which takes biological controller ( OR whatever)which I can't seem to make, if this takes a personal crafting station this req needs to be changed and if I'm just blind please tell me where to look so I can get up med crafting to become a danged BE.






For the low-level stimpack made at novide medic, the components are optional.



Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
Hylidex
Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:16 am
#7

This morning, there appeared to be no bio-engineer experimentation skill awarded anywhere in the tree. All tissues for chefs and tailors could be made by going up just one line of the BE tree. All medical tissues could be made at maximum by going up just one line.


Pet-making appears to be in trouble. Sampling high-level mobs has always been a major frustration, requiring one to clone repeatedly. Having a master combat profession helped. Exploration IV is a must. With the current setup, Master BE with Exploration IV requires 134 skill points. A master combat profession requires 121. This effectively makes no pet-maker able to master a combat profession. With no health award, I really don't see us making many high-level pets.


With the increased costs in combat professions, the decrease in meat drops, and the hybrid considered to be an intermediate level player, I think we'll see a decline in meat hunters. If we lose Hunting IV, we'll lose the ability to hunt our own meat. This should drive meat prices through the roof. Meanwhile, the effectiveness of the doctor tissues is decreasing. We will have to watch to see if anyone wants to buy them at all, considering the cost of making them. Milk and fish may put some tissues completely out of reach.


With the unworkability of the pet crafting system with more aggressive mobs and fewer defenses and the loss of all our tissue lines to dabblers, I really don't see any reason to remain a master bio-engineer. If the current system were live (and in all fairness, it isn't yet, because it hasn't been tested or balanced), I know I would drop my master bio-engineer. I might drop crafting entirely. If only double combat professionals have access to the full spectrum of game content and geography, then it is time to become a double combat professional.



Hylidex Lightstrider
AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS)
-6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
AJedimasterNow
Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:29 am
#8

Thanks, I must've been tired last night I coulda sworn it wasn't differently colored LOL, Please excuse my uncommonly silly moment!



Rachna Wildfire (RW Bio-engineered pets and products)
Bio-engineering Bloodfin's Pets
Among the best(Recently cracked 8k h and 450dmg)
Shop is located on naboo, -3979,3475. if you need anything petwise contact me.
A Member of Ahriman Keep on Naboo
Nearest Shuttleport Theed
Nearest Starport: Theed
Raziya Wildseed - BH/CH
Marrow1
Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:35 pm
#9

You may want to add



  • The resources required for the higher end meds are particularly difficult to obtain. Request the resouce type and amount be readjusted to make the crafting cost more inline with the benifit of the product.


I would rather not see high end meds become as rare as Stim D's. If thier were a tiered system where you could craft these items with more general materials then it would not be nearly as impactive.


For example, smelted items are very rare as they require a kit to make them. These kits will prevent any but the long time player from crafting them.


Additionaly the fish, eggs, etc are also going to be so expensive to buy that I suspect that only resouce deeds will be used for much of them. I personally would rather not see crafting be so hinged on deeds and not resouces gatherers.





__________[Marrow]__________
____[*aka Fringing, Babwe, Hurtz *]____

__/\_/\___/\_____[last of the known Doctor Correspondents]/\___/\_/\__
WTS
Thu Apr 14, 2005 10:03 pm
#10






Hylidex wrote:


Pet-making appears to be in trouble. Sampling high-level mobs has always been a major frustration, requiring one to clone repeatedly. Having a master combat profession helped. Exploration IV is a must. With the current setup, Master BE with Exploration IV requires 134 skill points. A master combat profession requires 121. This effectively makes no pet-maker able to master a combat profession. With no health award, I really don't see us making many high-level pets.




its more than just the health award.... you take damage according to your level relative to the attacker's level. since BE won't be very high level, most mid-level to high mobs will be doing HUGE damage to you... regardless of buffs, armor or anything else.




Arandis
Master Smuggler (Imperial FP for 125 credits each)
Agathon
12 point MDE, 12 point MAS, 14 point Master Artisan

Vendors at -3979 3643 Naboo, outside Theed

Eskie
Fri Apr 15, 2005 2:17 am
#11


WTS wrote:
(...)its more than just the health award.... you take damage according to your level relative to the attacker's level. since BE won't be very high level, most mid-level to high mobs will be doing HUGE damage to you... regardless of buffs, armor or anything else.




Exactly that is why the AS are up in arms up to the point their correspondent got dismissed - their products are being rendered useless except for PvP.
With the effect of buffs being set off by the damage multiplier the creature gets about 2 or 3 levels above one, I dont see a big market there, also.
Furthermore, WS havent noticed, but if I can kill a same-level and one-level-above mob with an average weapon, but one two levels above me kills me anyhow because I cant shoot often enough before my health reaches 0, why would I spend the money for a great weapon?

This new level system is evil - on the current live servers, the level system gives one an idea of how the fight might go based on the abilities and equipment of the player and the creature, on TC-Ep3 the level determines the abilities and equipment benefit of the player and the creature.

A former multi-layered system where one could mix and match abilities to choose the best combination for himself gets wasted for a system of pure box grinding. Having any box is good as long as it gives a higher combat level, not because it grants a great special.

*Edited for spelling*

Message Edited by Eskie on 04-15-2005 11:19 AM



Eskona Runningstar
12pt Master Doctor - Master Riflewoman
Light Jedi Padawan
-ERI- medical supplies CLOSED

Left to explore new galaxies far, far away
after this galaxy had been enhanced far too much for her taste
Arfindel
Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:48 am
#12


I was never very unhappy about software bugs in this game. Yeah, I know a lot of us experienced them and got problems out of them but they are usually punctual. I've wrote some code myself in my life and I know that in more or less time they have a software answer that fix them once forever.

But I was always deeply upset on logical bugs and conception problems. The very necessity for a combat balance came from such failures.


Now the CU is here. I am again very happy our profession gets even more complex, even more difficult. And yes, I would never complain I have a spellweaver right on top of my flora harvie. Nor that I have to run-come back-die-come back several times to sample a high level mob. It's my fun, it's why I am BE for more than a year now, and it's why i am not ashamed to get pretty good cash for my work. But having a general look on what's happening on TC what i see doesn't make me happy (and don't expect me to moan about the "debatable" taste in the UI paintings.


There are out there a lot of pure pvp-ers, templates like master swords, tkm (or fencer) and master braw. These guys will never care about crafting issues. If Da Vinci will come tomorrow to do paintings for them they will still go pvp not decorate their houses. There are passionate crafters that read 3 times a day SWGcraft and still go to have one more sampling on Rori.Those, whatever devs do, will stillmaster 2 crafting professionsand be happy with that. But imho the average player is the one who likes both some good fighting and some crafting: doc+combat profession or CM+combat profession were a popular choice.


And mainly doc+combat players were probably the best players in game, balanced in style and happy with the SWG experience. Now this is taken away from them. Do we really believe a template of doc+combat unbalances the combat in this game? Are there any arguments for that? I would be very happy to read such arguments and somebody convince me that's the truth. At this point, after lots of hours playing daily this game for 1.5 year I can't see any. These players make a big mass. They like fighting and they will make a reasonable good template with what's left for them. They will probably remainin SWGand enjoy what's good for them (as there is never everything good or bad for everybody) from the CU. But... has anyone thought to their psychology? These people enjoy crafting too. Crafting + combat made for them the world inside SWG. Has anybody ever thought about their psychology over time? After all the bugs have been fixed, after all this turmoil will be settled down and maybe pve will be an enjoyable, not so easy adventure, and pvp will hopefully be a rewarding experience?


On the long way I think these players, most of them at any rate will quit. The complex, the rich round experience of SWG is compromised for them.


Now comming back to BE. I used to pride myself we are the only profession that really is composed of another 4 professions. With the CU will be 6.I'll like that no doubt. I am dabbling in doc and CM crafting since a long time with alts or with friends' chars. But is this a balance? A single profession doing stuff for: 1. doc, 2. cm, 3. ch, 4. chef, 5. tailor?? let alone the mountable pets. It's so easy to see we'll be the ones that make money from everything we do. it's so easy to see BE becomes a hybrid of a hybrid and that prices will go sky high. It's so easy to see we'll control the market (and we are only a few, competition is very lose).


Is it not artificial power and what's more market power that we do not ask for and that's placed into our hands? Is it not this a mistake that has already been done in time several times starting with the original moneypower of the architects, CHs, armorsmiths, doctorsetc? Come on, I like to be rich, but that's about balancing the game, or not?


These are questions that should have been answered long ago, long before the beta came to the TC. I am afraid they regard conception and there is nothing much to be done about it. However i thought maybe it's good to put them even if too late, a cludge is always better than a bug... and ./sigh maybe just maybe the idea of balance could be still balanced a little more.

Message Edited by Arfindel on 04-15-2005 12:49 PM




AEN BIOTEK
---------------
FarstarCorelliaTyrena-3448, -659 North Misty Island


Mustelafuro
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:20 am
#13

The rare and difficult resources are a way of life for docs and esp cm's. I don't expect them to change that. Taking out the smelted stuff was kind of cheesy, since the metal recycler is the easiest one to build, and not too difficult to loot the parts.


I hope they fix the dna sampling somehow, or at least give master BE some sort of mask scent type ability. Would be nice to get them to take a hard look at the dna problems, as well as fix the exp points so dabblers can't craft as well as master be's. Or if not, then put the best schematics in the master box.
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