Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: MCH/MBE versus MCH/MPistoleer and CL 80 pets
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Anarrion
Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:21 am
#1
Let's compare the two from the creature handling and creature knowledge perspective:
1. You become a Master Creature Handler. You can now tame and use CL 70 creatures. But, you still have a lot to learn about handling a pet.
2. You fight with many, many creatures that you have tamed to learn their special skills, talents, and strengths. You eventually learn all L1, L2, and L3 abilities. Your knowledge of handling a pet has significantly increased, but you still have a lot to learn.
3. You began fighting with specially selected pets, forming a close bond with them, and learn to teach them the many abilities you've learned such as how to Knockdown an enemy, Blind an enemy, or Stun them on command. Once you have trained several to your satisfaction, you have not only mastered the profession, you should get a Ph.D.
Now it's time for your post-doctoral work:
4a. You master the pistoleer profession. Your skill at handling a creature has significantly increased?
4b. You learn how to take samples from creatures, and in your lab, genetically engineer new creatures from the DNA in those samples. You learn how to increase the hardiness, and intelligence, and endurance of the pets you create, as well as other attributes such as those that add to the power or fierceness of your creations. You learn how to create creatures that are more aggressive than usual or less aggressive than usual, and creatures that can do significantly more damage or have significantly greater health. Having sampled many very dangerous and aggressive creatures, you learn how to avoid startling them as you poke them with your needles. Your knowledge of creature aggressiveness helps you to make special tissues that can be added to clothing to increase one's ability to tame creatures and mask scent. You learn from your field work and from your lab work which creatures have exceptionally high intelligence and which have extraordinary health or ability to do damage. Your knowledge of creatures is unsurpassed, particularly as it relates to keeping them calm when you want them calm. You create a CL 80 pet using your vast knowledge of creatures and their DNA.
So, who should be more able to control the CL 80 creature? The MCH who is also master pistoleer and who doesn't know the difference between creature hardiness and creature fortitude, and couldn't name a single creature with higher than usual intelligence or power, and, in general knows no more about handling creatures than any other MCH? Or the actual creator of this magnificent beast?
I don't mean to pick on Pistoleers in particular. You can substitute any combat profession in their place. Itwould make more sensethough to have MCH/MBE be the only ones that can control a CL 80 pet, rather than be excluded from using CL 80 pets. I'm not asking that CL 80 creature handlers not have the opportunity to learn to control CL 80 pets, but an MCH/MBE should be able to control them without even doing any special quests. As soon as one gets both MCH and MBE, give him the ability to control the CL 80 pets he makes.
Message Edited by Anarrion on 10-13-2005 12:47 PM
goatt_13
Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:47 am
#2
this makes sense in terms of logic and sanity.
i support these thoughts 100%.
this isn't going to sell the expansion, however.
i support these thoughts 100%.
this isn't going to sell the expansion, however.
goatt_13
Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:50 am
#3
let me reiterate: this is very well worded, and would be a GREAT reward for those of us that are dedicated to this aspect of the game.
those of us that have sacrificed more skill points than the other professions, have arguably spent more credits than other professions, to contribute to the overall system.
those of us that have sacrificed more skill points than the other professions, have arguably spent more credits than other professions, to contribute to the overall system.
Dorelli
Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:05 am
#4
I think it is beautifully written as well and agree with it completely.
Dor
OddWan
Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:49 am
#5
This is the best arguement I have seen yet for having BE/CH able to handle CL80. The reasoning is clearly stated and logical.
LeviticusD
Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:55 pm
#6
I'm trolling.
I like to stay abreast on all issues of every profession and this CL80 thing has me interested. In all my trolling this is one of the best, most logical and convincing posts I've ever read. I hope everyone here that agrees with this threaddoes what they can to get the devs to take a look.
I like to stay abreast on all issues of every profession and this CL80 thing has me interested. In all my trolling this is one of the best, most logical and convincing posts I've ever read. I hope everyone here that agrees with this threaddoes what they can to get the devs to take a look.
Katharian
Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:43 am
#8
/applaud
very well put if only the DEV's would read it and understand.
TullFloyd
Sat Oct 15, 2005 7:32 am
#9
/cheer Well put I am another who agrees with that view.
Flurry
Morarrana
Master Be
Master CH
M&M sales corellia 804 -5116 recently moved will change on here soon but for now there is a sign where my vendor used to be with the new location
Meplorium
Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:09 pm
#10
This is indeed logical and rational and therefore incomprehesible to the Devs who are too memorized with their barrowed CL system to read such a post.
Cindal
Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:06 am
#11
lammergeier wrote:
as tempting as it is, let's not assume that a logical or rational argument is lost on the devs.
this is a logical and rational argument.
what's the problem with it? it ignores the 'balance' that the devs are pushing with the CL system.
think I'm apologizing for the devs? check the "lammergeier tracker". I'm not.
the problem is: balance within the CL system.
personally, I fail to see how a CL54 toon with a CL70 pet is BALANCED, while a CL54 toon with a CL80 pet is UNBALANCED. if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't (as things stand... CL80 is the END result of 'CH enhanced abilities', and CL72 is the first step), then I'm terribly confused. where is the line drawn?
CH's, since the launch of the game, have been able to control creatures beyond their own effective CL.
CH's were, for a very brief time LONG ago, overpowered. that ended almost two years ago. a CL80 pet is no match for an experienced CL80 player... and a smart CL80 player will ignore the pet and kill the CH, bypassing any effectiveness that a pet offers.
where is the line drawn? if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't, then what math makes that work?
I think the problem ISN'T that BioE's need a max non-jedi CL of 80... I think the problem is that CL80 shouldn't be a requirement for basic content.
I think that CL80 should not be a requirement for content.
I repeated myself (I've done it at least twice tonight)... for emphasis.
CL gates content.
is the answer to boost all CL's? do I have more fun playing a pinball game and scoring 100k for launching the ball? do I have less fun for playing a game without a score, or a game with a low high-score? absolutely not. the answer is to balance a skills-based-game on skills... not on 'level', an artificial afterthought with desperately crippling issues in implementation. Just keeping the ball in play for as long as possible is challenging. Score is unimportant to me but the longer I can keep the ball in play the long I can play the game and hence the greater my enjoyment.
CL gates content. drop the CL gate. remove the CL system.
don't feed the system by inflating crafter/entertainer/etc CL's. drop it. balance the game on skills.
lammergeier
Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:18 pm
#12
as tempting as it is, let's not assume that a logical or rational argument is lost on the devs.
this is a logical and rational argument.
what's the problem with it? it ignores the 'balance' that the devs are pushing with the CL system.
think I'm apologizing for the devs? check the "lammergeier tracker". I'm not.
the problem is: balance within the CL system.
personally, I fail to see how a CL54 toon with a CL70 pet is BALANCED, while a CL54 toon with a CL80 pet is UNBALANCED. if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't (as things stand... CL80 is the END result of 'CH enhanced abilities', and CL72 is the first step), then I'm terribly confused. where is the line drawn?
CH's, since the launch of the game, have been able to control creatures beyond their own effective CL.
CH's were, for a very brief time LONG ago, overpowered. that ended almost two years ago. a CL80 pet is no match for an experienced CL80 player... and a smart CL80 player will ignore the pet and kill the CH, bypassing any effectiveness that a pet offers.
where is the line drawn? if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't, then what math makes that work?
I think the problem ISN'T that BioE's need a max non-jedi CL of 80... I think the problem is that CL80 shouldn't be a requirement for basic content.
I think that CL80 should not be a requirement for content.
I repeated myself (I've done it at least twice tonight)... for emphasis.
CL gates content.
is the answer to boost all CL's? do I have more fun playing a pinball game and scoring 100k for launching the ball? do I have less fun for playing a game without a score, or a game with a low high-score? absolutely not. the answer is to balance a skills-based-game on skills... not on 'level', an artificial afterthought with desperately crippling issues in implementation.
CL gates content. drop the CL gate. remove the CL system.
don't feed the system by inflating crafter/entertainer/etc CL's. drop it. balance the game on skills.
this is a logical and rational argument.
what's the problem with it? it ignores the 'balance' that the devs are pushing with the CL system.
think I'm apologizing for the devs? check the "lammergeier tracker". I'm not.
the problem is: balance within the CL system.
personally, I fail to see how a CL54 toon with a CL70 pet is BALANCED, while a CL54 toon with a CL80 pet is UNBALANCED. if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't (as things stand... CL80 is the END result of 'CH enhanced abilities', and CL72 is the first step), then I'm terribly confused. where is the line drawn?
CH's, since the launch of the game, have been able to control creatures beyond their own effective CL.
CH's were, for a very brief time LONG ago, overpowered. that ended almost two years ago. a CL80 pet is no match for an experienced CL80 player... and a smart CL80 player will ignore the pet and kill the CH, bypassing any effectiveness that a pet offers.
where is the line drawn? if CL70 is ok, but CL72 isn't, then what math makes that work?
I think the problem ISN'T that BioE's need a max non-jedi CL of 80... I think the problem is that CL80 shouldn't be a requirement for basic content.
I think that CL80 should not be a requirement for content.
I repeated myself (I've done it at least twice tonight)... for emphasis.
CL gates content.
is the answer to boost all CL's? do I have more fun playing a pinball game and scoring 100k for launching the ball? do I have less fun for playing a game without a score, or a game with a low high-score? absolutely not. the answer is to balance a skills-based-game on skills... not on 'level', an artificial afterthought with desperately crippling issues in implementation.
CL gates content. drop the CL gate. remove the CL system.
don't feed the system by inflating crafter/entertainer/etc CL's. drop it. balance the game on skills.
Spazzers
Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:12 pm
#13
If you want realism you're looking at the wrong game. For the sake of discussion I'll look past that. If we use your analogy a MCH/MBE knows a heck of a lot about animals, as far as knowledge goes. That doesn't mean the MCH/MBE would be able to handle a high end pet like CL80
The MCH/MRifles or Pistols on the other hand would have weapons skills necessary to intimidate the pet in the event the pet decided to take matters into its own hands, or paws if you will.
CL in this game was POORLY implemented. Regardless, I doubt very strongly this is going to change, at least not in the near term. You can rationalize it. You can analize it. In the end, you either accept the mechanics or you move on to a different game. The developers do not have a very good track record of listening to the players. 
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