Bio Engineer Archive
Thread: Apology to all Bio-Engineers, especially NancyJ
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Amonsun
Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:38 am
#1
Apology to all Bio-Engineers, especially NancyJ.
I made a post in the CH forums and made some blanket statements that simply weren’t true. It doesn’t matter why I made them. The fact is I made them and it was wrong.
I am deeply sorry for those statements.
I understand you stance in the matter of players posting here looking for services.
In defense of my earlier post I honestly did not see the sticky at the top of this page, but as they say “ignorance of the law is no excuse”. So I wont try and make any more.
What I would like to do is try and discover a way for CH’s looking for a BE who has interest on pet making to get together. How that is to be done I have not a clue.
NancyJ
Thu Aug 19, 2004 6:45 am
#2
Amonsun wrote:Apology to all Bio-Engineers, especially NancyJ.I made a post in the CH forums and made some blanket statements that simply weren’t true. It doesn’t matter why I made them. The fact is I made them and it was wrong.I am deeply sorry for those statements.I understand you stance in the matter of players posting here looking for services.In defense of my earlier post I honestly did not see the sticky at the top of this page, but as they say “ignorance of the law is no excuse”. So I wont try and make any more.
What I would like to do is try and discover a way for CH’s looking for a BE who has interest on pet making to get together. How that is to be done I have not a clue.
/hug
We all know how frustrating it is trying to find *insert profession* and they wont respond or are rude to you, we are unfortunate in that those of us who make pets dont have the luxory of sitting around the shop waiting for customers, DNA sampling is very time consuming and requires a lot a patience and timing, nothing worse then getting aggroed when you're half way through writting a tell heh.
Its sad that there are so few of us that will make custom pets and those that do and are good at it can be very busy people.
SkyPreacher1
Thu Aug 19, 2004 7:10 am
#3
I saw your post on the CH forum and well don't be sorry.
As a MCH and a MBE i totally understand the frustration on both sides.
Spazzers
Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:15 am
#4
I've been a master creature handler / master bio-engineer for a very long time. The frustration players experience with bio-engineers isn't reserved just for creature handlers. Chefs and tailors have similar concerns.
Its a two way street. Creature handlers, chefs, and tailors need to keep in mind they are all competing for a bio-engineers time. Also, there aren't as many bio-engineers making animals as there are those making tissues. Obviously tissues are a lot more lucrative. You can easily become a multi-millionaire making chef and tailor tissues in a matter of a few days. Animal sales, having fallen off drastically, aren't nearly as profitable.
Bio-engineers need to keep a few things in mind as well. Pointing out the "this is not a trade forum" thread stickied at the top of the forum and one starring a request by apotential customerdoes nothing to improve the sale of animals. Yes, you cut down on the amount of spam in the BE forum but you also cut down on the number of people willing to purchase animals from a BE. Word of mouth is a very powerful tool. All a creature handler has to do is float a thread in the CH forum asking why bio-engineers are so rude. Its striking how many posts a thread like that receives. Instead, you might say thanks for the request and pointthem to thethread that lists BE's on the different servers and leave the stars out of the equation completely. One sentence, no sarcasm, no feelings get hurt. You might actually be thanked by the creature handler or chef or tailor. You might actually make a new customer.
Kudos for stepping up and apologizing. Its possible some of the BE's might want to do the same. 
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:16 am
#5
Spazzers,
I know you have been pushing this point of view on every thread where there is someone posting a "commerce" thread here (and the excuse is usually the same... "I saw the sticky, but I didn't think it applied to me, surely my request for chef additives can't be considered commerce" /rollseyes), and a BE suggesting that they take it to the galaxy trade. But I don't agree with you. It's all well and good to be nice, and cheerful, and helpful, and all that, but to me the most important thing is to preserve this forum as a place for bio engineers to come and learn, and share ideas, and communicate, and spam really does harm that. I think we've already got a problem with too much spam as it is and suggesting that we just open the flood gates would just make this forum unusuable imho. If you stop and think about why a chef, or tailor, or ch, or any potential customer of a BE would want to post here (instead of the trade forum)to contract some services is precisely because of the lack of spam here, and instead the high concentration of BE's who come here because it is spam free.
Ok, now time to be constructive. I suggest a greater effort be made to maintain the bio engineer & shop list, give it higher visibility (means a top level sticky) and to create one thread (also a sticky)where people can come and dump spam into. I suspect that may be a compromise we can all live with.
Kevm
Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:23 am
#6
ArthurDentOnBria wrote:
Ok, now time to be constructive. I suggest a greater effort be made to maintain the bio engineer & shop list, give it higher visibility (means a top level sticky) and to create one thread (also a sticky)where people can come and dump spam into. I suspect that may be a compromise we can all live with.
I agree. I think a sticky titled 'IF you're looking for a BE post HERE' thread that also links to the server BE list would be a good idea.
Assuming, of course, that the posters actually READ the stickies before they post.
NancyJ
Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:54 am
#7
The issue atm with the vendor list is a number of BE's are threatening to quit when patch day comes, if I update the list now, chances are I'm going to have to redo it all over again in a few weeks time when the patch goes live.
Its very time consuming to keep up to date in the format that it is in currently, but I dont want just a big thread that anyone can reply to because its just not helpful that way.
My plan is to create a separate thread for each server and then link them all up under a sticky, which will have the unfortunate effect of clogging up the front page temporarily (I'll probably go through all the second page threads and push them up to the top to hide it all heh)
But theoreticall then vendors can add and remove themselves from the list as and when they like and it will still be just as easy for potential customers to find what they're looking for.
Its very time consuming to keep up to date in the format that it is in currently, but I dont want just a big thread that anyone can reply to because its just not helpful that way.
My plan is to create a separate thread for each server and then link them all up under a sticky, which will have the unfortunate effect of clogging up the front page temporarily (I'll probably go through all the second page threads and push them up to the top to hide it all heh)
But theoreticall then vendors can add and remove themselves from the list as and when they like and it will still be just as easy for potential customers to find what they're looking for.
Spazzers
Thu Aug 19, 2004 10:56 am
#8
I don't disagree with most of the sentiment you've expressed Arthur. No, I'm not saying open the flood gates and allow spam on the BE forum, or any profession forum for that matter. What I'm advocating is helping the "spammer" find the information they need quickly, efficiently, and without harm. A short simple "go to this sticky and find your BE" response. If you consider the fact that a spam threadhas already been created by someone, treating them with contempt orbeing sarcastic or abusive to them does no one a service. There may have been a BE out there that wanted this person's business. Is that potential customer going to go to the sticky thread and look for a BE or are they going to go back to the creature handler forum and say bio-engineers are snobs? That decision will be based greatly on the treatment they receive here.
The reason creature handlers, chefs, and tailors post here instead of their trade forum is not because there is a lack of spam here. It's because they received no responses on their trade forums. How many bio-engineers frequent the trade forums? Those potential customers "go to the source" which is the BE forum.
All I'm saying is treat your customers with civility. I can attest to the fact that just by advocating this type of approach I've received emails and orders from customers. I've even received emails from people who don't play on my server thanking me. You'll be amazed how far you can get by being nice to someone.
Suenr
Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:00 am
#9
One other idea on vendor lists would be to renew them quarterly. This forces active BEs to refresh, but it also flushes out inactive BEs or those who have quit.
NancyJ
Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:10 am
#10
Spazzers wrote:I don't disagree with most of the sentiment you've expressed Arthur. No, I'm not saying open the flood gates and allow spam on the BE forum, or any profession forum for that matter. What I'm advocating is helping the "spammer" find the information they need quickly, efficiently, and without harm. A short simple "go to this sticky and find your BE" response. If you consider the fact that a spam threadhas already been created by someone, treating them with contempt orbeing sarcastic or abusive to them does no one a service. There may have been a BE out there that wanted this person's business. Is that potential customer going to go to the sticky thread and look for a BE or are they going to go back to the creature handler forum and say bio-engineers are snobs? That decision will be based greatly on the treatment they receive here.The reason creature handlers, chefs, and tailors post here instead of their trade forum is not because there is a lack of spam here. It's because they received no responses on their trade forums. How many bio-engineers frequent the trade forums? Those potential customers "go to the source" which is the BE forum.All I'm saying is treat your customers with civility. I can attest to the fact that just by advocating this type of approach I've received emails and orders from customers. I've even received emails from people who don't play on my server thanking me. You'll be amazed how far you can get by being nice to someone.
We had that spazzers (and still do, its just slightly more hidden to cut down on stickies) we didnt get any less spam.
And I got flamed to hell for doing it and expecting people to use it and for asking people not to be rude to trade posters but to point them in the direction of the vendor thread.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
Spazzers
Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:41 am
#11
LOL well it's pretty obvious being nice to people isn't very popular. Regardless, I'll take the customers you guys alienate and I'll take a few seconds to say thanks.
ArthurDentOnBria
Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:43 am
#12
I don't see the distinction quite honestly,because when you post a response to a spam thread your response is either going to be an encouragement to the spammer, or a discouragement to a spammer, there really is very littlemiddle ground. When people simply refer them to the list it's looked on as arrogent or curt, or rude, or whatnot. And when people reply "great, I'd love your business, or I know of someone that does, here's their info..." then all you're doing is encouraging others to post similar spam. And while I don't doubt that you've gotten additional business by going out of your way to help spammers, for me at least that is not really a goal when I post to this forum. Seriously, if I wanted to do something that would affect my business I'd do what others do and that is post in the galaxy trade about how good my additives are, how good my pets are, and what my stock is like etc.
Spazzers wrote:
I don't disagree with most of the sentiment you've expressed Arthur. No, I'm not saying open the flood gates and allow spam on the BE forum, or any profession forum for that matter. What I'm advocating is helping the "spammer" find the information they need quickly, efficiently, and without harm.
NancyJ
Thu Aug 19, 2004 11:49 am
#13
At the end of the day, its not our choice, its down to the moderators and since its against the rules for trade posts to be in profession forums then anyone who dislikes them are well within their rights to have the thread removed or locked.
Whether you think its rude to point people to the vendor thread or not, surely thats preferable from a customer point of view, than having the thread deleted entirely.
Whether you think its rude to point people to the vendor thread or not, surely thats preferable from a customer point of view, than having the thread deleted entirely.
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