Artisan Archive
Thread: Why Engineering is the ONLY worthwhile Novice Artisan Skill...
Being a Domestic Arts III, Surveying IInovice artisan, I've finally realized that if you want to suceed--if you want to actually acquire large quantities of money and sell items frequently--then you have to go with Engineering. It's that simple. Here's why:
1) Food is just not useful enough. Sure, sure...it CAN be really helpful, but no players have really understood the true benefits of food, and they continue to think it's all a big joke (thanks to EQ). Despite my frequentshouts that food is useful, my moneyback guarentees, my wonderful, convincingdescriptions, AND my unique, catchy food titles, it's still extremely difficult to sell food. This fact is futher undermined by the fact that only a few servings of food can be consumed before your belly get's full and you can't eat any more anyway. And the fact that, unlike Anarchy Online, you can't actually hold food and drink in your hands, really weakens Food's value for role-playing at the cantina and at parties.
2) Clothing has no purpose (until you get super high level when it can provide minor armor). That's all, it has no purpose. Need I go on? Well, incase you're confused, clothing is ALL for looks. Why bother getting clothing at all? Hech, I'm seeing entertainers dance in their freaking boxer shorts! Nobody really cares. Maybe if clothing would help Entertainers heal fatigue faster, then clothing would actually have a purpose. While clothing is more popular than food, most people really just don't care, especially combat classes. I always ask my group members, "Interested in purchasing some Combat boots, gloves, or belts?" They reply, "What do they do?". I say, "Nothing, they just look sweet--you'll look tough and rugged like a marksman should." Needless to say, they backdown really quickly after that...
3) Surveying, under other circumstances, could be more valuableto invest points into, but here's the problem: resources stay in the same spots for virtually months! Why in the WORLD do you need a surveyor if you can just find the resources by youself once, set a way point, and then get all the resources you want by just watching TV for an hour while they game runs with your character sampling. Because of this, raw materials go for virtually nothing on the bazaar, ANY, I repeat, ANY artisan can get as much as they want on their own. Now, if resources changed positions every day, then surveyors would be greatly needed. They would be able to find the locations quickly and easily, extract it themselves, and then sell those resources on the bazaar for hefty prices (since they will be in demand because so few people will be able to extract them themselves).
4) Engineering rocks. Bone armor goes for thousands. Need I say more? Sure, weapons are weak--there are too few varieties, same with powerups. But thanks to armorcrafting, the Engineer profession makes oodles of money? You know why, right? It's because ARMOUR HAS A PURPOSE. Too bad you can't say the same thing about clothing.
I want to make an important distinction: I'm not dissing Engineering or Armosmiths, I am dissing the Artisan Profession in general. When 80% of Artisan skills are useless, you know you have a problem. I mean, really, all of my combatants don't even buy anything anymore! They find food and clothing useless, there arne't enough weapon varieties, and they had full suits of bone armor a long time ago. And thanks for extremely rewarding combat missions, they're racking up 20k creds daily. Put this all together, and you'll realize that the base problem here is that there's no money-sink. If Artisan items aren't good, then people don't buy them. Combatants become rich; crafters become poor...
And there slowly, slowly becomes less interaction among the ecomony. This is NOT, not, not good...
I am Silvanus of Kauri
Master Surveyor 3rd grade Engineer and 1st Grade Homemaker
What Felzor says. Do not get DomArts skills, it's useless.
...the more items I will sell as astrieving tailor.
I agree with a lot of things you have to say, Felzor.
But I think you underestimate the value of clothing on a roleplaying level. This IS an RPG and most people (if not all) play it for some sort of roleplaying environment, even if they aren't hardcore roleplayers. People want to wear clothes on their characters that look cool, that make them stand out from other people. If everyone was running around in their boxer shorts, where's the fun in that? Everyone would look essencially the same.
And on another note, some of these branches have hidden parts that other professions need. Even if they're some REALLY simple schematic, even the most advanced one won't work without them... Take fiberplast panels for instance, I do fairly well selling those to armoursmiths like yourself who do not want to spend the points (or time) on developing some tailoring skills. And don't get me wrong on this, there's nothing wrong with that, but to say they're useless is... well... dangerous.
I think you've underestimated the Domestic Arts field. As one previous poster mentioned, you can't even make your bone armor without fiberplast panels, which can only be made in DA. Unless you want to spend your time buying it, but why buy it when you can make it?
Yeah, clothing doesn't really "do" anything for you. But the fact of the matter is, who really wants to run around as a master gunslinger wearing the same clothes you started the game with? Wouldn't it be cool to wear yourself the gunman's duster that a tailor can make for you? For example, I have a Trandoshan friend who wanted a purple wardrobe. So I made him a purple shirt, pants, and headwrap, and he loves it! It gives your character added style and flair to wear something different than every other scout/marksman/medic/etc.
Engineering is cool, and in many ways might be considered the "best" of all the Artisan's skills. But the others are far from worthless.
Just a rebuttle, not a flame.
You obviously have not read many boards, wed sites or guides about the game. I will address each point of your post.
1. Food is very helpful, with Domestic Arts IV I can make a Sunshine Suprise the will boost my Str/Stam over 150 points for longer then 10 minutes that is a nice little buff. and considering that they stack for each time you drink 1 I can buff my str/stam by 450 for over 10 minutes that is a nice buff. I cancraftin town by the PCS (public crafting station) and sell the food I make as soon as it hits the hopper. I simply /shout Selling so-in-so it buffs your xxxx stat for xxx time. If I get tired of doing that then I just dump it on the bazaar and I sell out every day cause NO ONE elase has food listed on the Bazaar. Please by all means DON'T progress up this line as it will be more Business for me. I am even considering becoming a Chef as I might possibley be the only one in the game on my server.
2. Clothing does more then just make you look good. Even at lower levels (Domestic IV) I am making clothes that have 3 sockets on them that you can apply items to. I can't keep travel packs on the Bazaar for longer then 1 hour and I sell them at 850 a pop. I am swamped with tells for clothes everytime I walk into town. I use clothes to tip those Dancers in the cantinas that have none and they love it. It helps that I have a good judge of what looks good on what ppl. As I advance up the Tailor line I will be creating Clothing that ppl would rather wear then armor. How many ppl in the Star Wars Movies/Books did you ever see wearing Bone Armor. In the Star Wars Universe Armor was not a big deal, and I don't think it will be in SWG either.
3. The higher you go in Surveying the MORE materials you can Harvest making your "Unattended Sampling" even more efficent. With Surveying IV it is alot easier to Pin Point the highest concentration.
4. I agree here that engineering DOES ROCK but not for the reasons that you imply. I think it rocks because after Eng IV you have 4 areas you can move onto. To bad everyone has a Narrow View of MMORPG's that you have to have the best ARMOR and WEAPON to be successful. This mentality is what is ruining ENG I-IV for the new artisen. With "PA's" POWER GRINDING there Weaponsmith and Armorsmiths to be the FIRST on the Server the lower level guys just plan loose out sometimes.
I want to make an important distinction: I am a Master Artisen and I am playing the game to have fun. I have about 15k in the bank and spent about 15-20k on training, resources, Matinence on Harvesters, tipping, travel and the list goes on. To me grinding to be the first or the richest is not fun at all and are very narrowminded goals.I may not be the richest person in town but I have never done ONE MISSION (now that I have reached Master I plan on doing some just to see what they are like). I don't belive that I will end up in the poor house with nothing to buy make or sell.
The reason no one is buying anything from you anymore is because they have Power Leveled their way past your level of usefulness. There are plenty on ppl in town that need your skill since the Grinders no longer have a need for the new player. 80% or more of the Artisen Lineis very useful and leed to great professions and rewards.Try looking at the big picture and stop worrying about bieng RICH ! Try enlighting the ppl around you about the usefulness of food. How much better looking Clothing is then Armor.
By all means if you don't like the Artisen line drop the training points and pick up Marksman or Scout run a gazillion missions and make your 20k a day, I am sure I will see you sooner or later wanting to spend that "easy" money on an Artisen for something.
Please forgive the spelling errors I can't spell and am to lasy to spell check.
Well I agree with most points on this post and still being a relative new Artisan (survey III and Eng II) I agree that you need at least DA up to 3 for the food buffs and at least all 4 for acess fees as those pertain to deeds and such for harvesters and ultimately you own shop (hope i got this right)..So really might as well train all the artisan skills for now then once you do then specialize..Case in point, with my trained skills where they are I plan to try to get to at least all 4 of the basic artisan skill tree then specialize only Armor/weap and archtiect (for my shop) to go in that direction I wanna go..
Any comments regarding my skill path pls post.
As for surveying, firstly minerals dont stay in the same position for months. On Chilastra we've already been through a resource change. Finding the resources is only half of it, higher surveying skills allow you to collect the resources MUCH faster. I for one would LOVE to buy resources on the bazaar. Just not for the insane 10cr/unit people charge. Sure, I could sample them myself, but I'd rather not spend the time and I've got the cash to pay for them.
As for #4, Clothing sells for thousands too.
Again, all this may be different on your server, but thats how it is on Chilastra.
P.S Sorry if any of my points have already been made, I didn't have time to read all the responses
This post made me laugh.
I have yet to see a pair of hide boots last more than an hour on the bazaaer.
Sure its not oodles of money, but it only cost me time to make, and I get great carbine xp gathering resources. Same thing with Jackets and the like. I had a marksman with a trebch coat who would not wear any shoes until he got boots. I sold him a pair of black hid boots.
I do think you missed the value of the deed though. Architects have lots of high cash opportunities and they make surveyers even more usefull. Say a master medic gets a chemical and floral dead and does not want to spend points on artisian, he gets a surveyer to find the best build locations.
bottom line, I am not making a dime off of armor, where as I sell clothes all day.
Also if you experiment with the cdef guns at ENG IV they can get pretty dang good. I have gotten them up to 29-59 without any power ups. Then I make a Hot-wired coupler that increases that 29 to 34-37.
Powerups sell pretty well too. And I am willing to bet that if I didn't keep flooding my space with deeds and cloths that food would go good as well as nothing else as for players to rp that there characters are full.
I had a beer with my partner just last night(well this morning) so everything seems very usefull to me
How about this, give people a free sample of food and tell them when to use it. I bet they will be begging for more when they come back.
Blackmugen wrote:
But I think you underestimate the value of clothing on a roleplaying level. This IS an RPG and most people (if not all) play it for some sort of roleplaying environment, even if they aren't hardcore roleplayers. People want to wear clothes on their characters that look cool, that make them stand out from other people. If everyone was running around in their boxer shorts, where's the fun in that? Everyone would look essencially the same.
I'm sorry guys, but this type of an argument just doesn't work. From my experiences, nearly EVERY marksman or brawler I've talked to or grouped with is not concerned with their apperance. Here's the proof: I see people just look the same, many people really do start with their commando pants and stuff. These sort of non-RPers are generally human marksman. A second piece of proof is that clothing items sell for VERY little (1/10 of the price of armor) on the bazaar, and there are not nearly as many clothing items for sale anyway. You'd think fewer items = increased prices...but the SWG just doesn't work that way I suppose.
I'm not trying to be pessamistic; I am only being realistic. Too many players aren't concerned with role-playing aspects. I wish they were! But look at the bazaar, and you'll understand why they aren't.
I would agree that clothing is technically useless until the higher levels, but after I bought a set of Field Wear I from Patch McStitch on Corbantis, I had a whole new refreshed outlook on the game. It made me feel a lot....well, a lot more Star-Warsey to be looking like a Rebel trooper from Hoth vs. a guy in brown pants and brown shirt.
Just wait till you get yourself a nice set of clothes....good times!