Artisan Archive
Thread: Harv certs explained...the yes side
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Ropik
Thu May 20, 2004 1:31 pm
#1
Most of these incoherant rants could be eliminated if everyone was on the same page.
Topic: Certifications for Harvesters.
Point 1: Noone that isfor this(me for example) is saying that MA's and ONLY MA's are allowed to use them. That's ludicrous.
The proposal: All can use personals, Crafters can usethe bigguns. If you craft anything. Docs, Smugs, DE's, Chefs, whatever.
This outta stop about half of the ignorant "MA's only for certs sucks" posts.
Point 2: The "valid argument" that those opposed keep questioning and wondering where it is
The argument: Why do YOU deserve the right as a non crafter of any type( remember to READ point one before you doctors and such chime again) to run a machine designed to collect resources? As a non crafter you have absolutly NO business with resources. It is not intrinsic to your profession in SWG thus you have NO business with them. Non crafters want them to sell or give to your alts/guildies. Period.
Point 3: The price of goods and resources climbing.
The state of the economy: Yes. Prices will undoubtedlyrise across ALL crafting professions. To astronomical levels? Not likely. There are billions of stockpiled junk resources on every server. Holo grinding is ending if not already over for most. That demand will be GONE very soon. Prices will level out.
There are a ton of different suggestions and ideas about what to do with different aspects of this proposal. This is NOT merely an Artisan issue. This is not even a Crafters issue. This would affect every profession in SWG. This is a global issue.
This ultimatley ends up being a problem with non crafters and some crafters. The non crafters because they want access to easy dollars with no skill investment. The "some" crafters because of their reasons I don't understand.
I have a TKM/Swordsman and a Master Wep Smith/Master Arti on the same server. I wouldsurrender my harvs on the noncrafter if need be.
Hope with this thread we can get away from the crap "MA's only are you crazy? thats a crock!!! What a load" because frankly that is getting annoying.
Perhaps this will find it's way to a Global or game issue board. I don't know. Perhaps it will just filter away with the rest of the garbage on here...
HalasterTheBlack
Thu May 20, 2004 1:38 pm
#2
See, here's my problem with that whole argument...
You pointed out that it's a nerf. That it will make some people unhappy, it will decrease the revenue stream that some people have, and will increase prices. That's a lot of negatives you're admitting to.
But you never indicated any *benefit* that anyone would see from it. Where's the benefit? Who gets the buff for the nerfing that all the non-crafters are going to take. Show me the positive in it all. Convince me.
And here's my second beef with the whole thing...
Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Armorsmiths are NOT miners.
They're Artisans, Weaponsmiths, and Armorsmiths.
The devs made a conscious decision to remove the Miner profession from the game early in beta. They did this because of time and resource constraints - something had to go in order to go "Live" and Miner was one of those somethings.
When they made that call, they decided to give everyone the ability to mine. They did NOT decide to give just Artisans the ability to mine. Or even just any Crafters. But EVERYBODY.
Why?
Again, Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Tailors are NOT miners.
Bottom line, leaving mining alone hurts NOBODY. Screwing with it hurts EVERYBODY (even the crafters who get to keep their miners, because fewer people will be able to afford to buy from them).
Let's don't screw with it.
MarcoRenaldi
Thu May 20, 2004 1:38 pm
#3
Unfortuantely what you are proposing would utterly kill the architect community. What happens to all those harvesters who are owned by a uncerted individual? They will be on the trade forums with in 24 hours. Meaning if even 1 out of 2 people is certed that is hundreds upon hundreds of harvesters flooding the market at clearance prices. Meaning that architect are out of a job forever since harvesters dont decay.
You said prices wont jump? HAHAHA that is hilarious. What happens when we have the same amount of crafters and a severely reduced amoutn of harvestors? Demand goes up as supply goes down. Meaning prices skyrocket. I honestly dont believe you realize how bad the economy is at the moment, and that a move of this scale will cause the market to crash. Dont be surprised by small houses costing 50k.
hoenix
Boma27
Thu May 20, 2004 1:41 pm
#4
Point 2: So in real life if I make let's say cars I have to go mine the metal and make the steel myself? That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying no to certs, i'm just saying that this particular point seems awfully weak to me. There are tons of businesses in RL (and I'm sure there are some in the star wars story line) that do nothing but mine resources and sell them.
MarcoRenaldi
Thu May 20, 2004 1:44 pm
#5
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
See, here's my problem with that whole argument...
You pointed out that it's a nerf. That it will make some people unhappy, it will decrease the revenue stream that some people have, and will increase prices. That's a lot of negatives you're admitting to.
But you never indicated any *benefit* that anyone would see from it. Where's the benefit? Who gets the buff for the nerfing that all the non-crafters are going to take. Show me the positive in it all. Convince me.
And here's my second beef with the whole thing...
Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Armorsmiths are NOT miners.
They're Artisans, Weaponsmiths, and Armorsmiths.
The devs made a conscious decision to remove the Miner profession from the game early in beta. They did this because of time and resource constraints - something had to go in order to go "Live" and Miner was one of those somethings.
When they made that call, they decided to give everyone the ability to mine. They did NOT decide to give just Artisans the ability to mine. Or even just any Crafters. But EVERYBODY.
Why?
Again, Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Tailors are NOT miners.
Bottom line, leaving mining alone hurts NOBODY. Screwing with it hurts EVERYBODY (even the crafters who get to keep their miners, because fewer people will be able to afford to buy from them).
Let's don't screw with it.
The up side to all this is that any artisan can sell grinding resources for 5-10 cpu as oppose to the fair 2-3 cpu.
They dont care that every crafting profession REQUIRES multiple lots of rotating harvesters to keep even a minimal production line going.
Cafa
Thu May 20, 2004 1:49 pm
#6
I'd agree with a cert system if the three of you basically promoting this were banned from the game for 6 months so you cannot make any money during that time.
And I do not mean your characters. I mean a credit card/account search and ban of all your possible accounts, a tracking system installed to monitor their logs and a public reporting to the public.
Why? Because I just don't believe you. THIS IS a power play, not advocacy. Your reasons for cert systems are fundamentally founded in selfishness for a novice profession, IMO. Artisans need more things to make, not activities that totally upheave the entire economy for another freaking 6 months.
Fivo Asia
Ropik
Thu May 20, 2004 1:50 pm
#7
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
See, here's my problem with that whole argument...
You pointed out that it's a nerf. That it will make some people unhappy, it will decrease the revenue stream that some people have, and will increase prices. That's a lot of negatives you're admitting to.
But you never indicated any *benefit* that anyone would see from it. Where's the benefit? Who gets the buff for the nerfing that all the non-crafters are going to take. Show me the positive in it all. Convince me.
And here's my second beef with the whole thing...
Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Armorsmiths are NOT miners.
They're Artisans, Weaponsmiths, and Armorsmiths.
The devs made a conscious decision to remove the Miner profession from the game early in beta. They did this because of time and resource constraints - something had to go in order to go "Live" and Miner was one of those somethings.
When they made that call, they decided to give everyone the ability to mine. They did NOT decide to give just Artisans the ability to mine. Or even just any Crafters. But EVERYBODY.
Why?
Again, Artisans are NOT miners. Weaponsmiths are NOT miners. Tailors are NOT miners.
Bottom line, leaving mining alone hurts NOBODY. Screwing with it hurts EVERYBODY (even the crafters who get to keep their miners, because fewer people will be able to afford to buy from them).
Let's don't screw with it.
Very solid. I stated that this is a global issue. And I think it should at very least be looked at. But ytou make as many solid points opposing as I think can be made in favor. The buff as I see it is obvioulsly increased revenue for crafters and not having to compete against non crafters in the resource market. It is obviously not going to be welcomed in one arena and vice versa.
Ropik
Thu May 20, 2004 1:52 pm
#8
Boma27 wrote:
Point 2: So in real life if I make let's say cars I have to go mine the metal and make the steel myself? That just doesn't make sense to me. I'm not saying no to certs, i'm just saying that this particular point seems awfully weak to me. There are tons of businesses in RL (and I'm sure there are some in the star wars story line) that do nothing but mine resources and sell them.
That was a bit "what?" but here goes...
So in"real life" thought this was a game, but in "real life" are you going to go mine the steel and then sell it to Ford to have a car made? No. Ford is going to buy its steel from a "crafter" or "steel mill".
Ropik
Thu May 20, 2004 1:53 pm
#9
MarcoRenaldi wrote:
You said prices wont jump? HAHAHA that is hilarious. What happens when we have the same amount of crafters and a severely reduced amoutn of harvestors? Demand goes up as supply goes down. Meaning prices skyrocket. I honestly dont believe you realize how bad the economy is at the moment, and that a move of this scale will cause the market to crash. Dont be surprised by small houses costing 50k.
Actually, I said prices WILL go up. It's just 2 post above yours.
Ropik
Thu May 20, 2004 1:56 pm
#10
Well I don't agree with having to "buy" geo cubes from you to make better weapons. I want to be able to go kill the stuff myself. But I can't. I am dependant an YOU to get them and sell them to me. I think non crafters are monopolizing the enhancment market! Give me a break
Cafa wrote:
I'd agree with a cert system if the three of you basically promoting this were banned from the game for 6 months so you cannot make any money during that time.
And I do not mean your characters. I mean a credit card/account search and ban of all your possible accounts, a tracking system installed to monitor their logs and a public reporting to the public.
Why? Because I just don't believe you. THIS IS a power play, not advocacy. Your reasons for cert systems are fundamentally founded in selfishness for a novice profession, IMO. Artisans need more things to make, not activities that totally upheave the entire economy for another freaking 6 months.
Fivo Asia
Srednii
Thu May 20, 2004 1:58 pm
#11
WHO CARES ABOUT GRIND MATERIALS!?!??!?! lol, I know I sure don't. I use em for the few components armorsmiths use where quality doesn't matter, and because theyr'e cheap enough (2cpu-3cpu) I buy em. If they cost 10cpu, hell if they cost 4 cpu I would mine them myself because 4 cpu is too damn expensive for grind crap.
What I'm worried about is the materials I'm paying for that are expensive as hell already. Common high quality materials, 10-20 cpu. Rare high quality materials 50-100 cpu. These resources are already expensive enough, crippling the resource industry is just going to make them worse.
So again, real crafters don't give two craps about the grind resources.
Cafa
Thu May 20, 2004 2:01 pm
#12
Ropik wrote:
Well I don't agree with having to "buy" geo cubes from you to make better weapons. I want to be able to go kill the stuff myself. But I can't. I am dependant an YOU to get them and sell them to me. I think non crafters are monopolizing the enhancment market! Give me a break
Cafa wrote:
I'd agree with a cert system if the three of you basically promoting this were banned from the game for 6 months so you cannot make any money during that time.
And I do not mean your characters. I mean a credit card/account search and ban of all your possible accounts, a tracking system installed to monitor their logs and a public reporting to the public.
Why? Because I just don't believe you. THIS IS a power play, not advocacy. Your reasons for cert systems are fundamentally founded in selfishness for a novice profession, IMO. Artisans need more things to make, not activities that totally upheave the entire economy for another freaking 6 months.
Fivo Asia
Okay I'll bite, where? Fivo is a pure crafter. I can afford to have a crafter, a fighter and a few other things. The best looter I KNOW ON Tempest is also the best DE there. He might not be a MA but he gets plenty of geo things every day.
Fivo Asia
DeathStryyker
Thu May 20, 2004 2:02 pm
#13
there is no possible way for the Master artisans on server to supply all the crafters with the specific reasources need with only 8 slots its just not possible this whole idea is just plain stupid, seriously......... ppl shouldnt be forced to go Master a profession this will not help the community of players in each server it only really helps "Novice" Artisan profession become more money makers then the "Elite" Professions resources would be high on demand and so will prices and your only joking yourself if you think otherwise that it wouldnt raise prices on resources and items......
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