Artisan Archive
Thread: For AFK Macroers EULA Interpretation 101
Our friend, the SWG EULA is at:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Policies%20EULA
7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play*. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators**; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server***; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play****. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure*****. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors******.
* You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play
This means you can't use programs other people write thatrun the game for you, or give you an "in game" advantage.
** You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators
You can't reverse engineer the network code and write your own server to use the SWG Client with.
*** You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server
You can't write programs that modify the messages sent between the server and client (i.e. hack the messages).
**** you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play
Note the clever use of the word "or" here ... it is crucial to the understanding of the sentence in that there are actually TWO statements here:
1. You can't use or distribute macros that allow unattended game play (like these looping survey macros)
2. You can't use other programs that allow unattended game play, like those 3rd party programs that let you run generic keyboard/mouse click macros in Windows.
***** You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure
This one is crucial as well, as it is a "catch all" phrase that covers even just standing in town doing absolutely nothing but suck bandwidth 24/7. Note the clever addtion as determined by us which indicates that it doesn't matter one flying flip what you think is reasonable - the decision is thiers to make.
****** You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
You can't sell in game items on E-Bay or PlayerAuctions.com.
Class over. If you still have questions, email them to [email protected]. :-)
Bushwa
Thank you Bushwa. I was considering posting something like that yesterday after I finally read the EULA.
Hawks5999: This is not an interpretation, this is a direct copy from the EULA. Of particular interest is the specific statement forbidding distribution of macros that allow unattended game play. The phrase "unattended game play" is pretty clear cut.
Null Tensor
It is very obvious to anyone who has played a Sony Online game in the past that they are refering to keyboard macroing programs that exist independently of the game software. Macroing in say, EQ, by use of the chatfunctionality was 100% legal.
Neither of these things are defined enough to be legally binding. By this interpretation any use of the macro system in the game that a player can get up and walk away from the keyboard while it is running is a violation. Gameplay can be interpreted as simply the act of being in the game sitting snd doing absolutely nothing.
They made the system and were well aware of how it could be used. If they didn't want people to macro sample they wouldnt have made it possible. This is reinforced by the fact that they have already made changes to address the issuebut did not remove the ability to do it.
Jhindu wrote:
It is very obvious to anyone who has played a Sony Online game in the past that they are refering to keyboard macroing programs that exist independently of the game software. Macroing in say, EQ, by use of the chatfunctionality was 100% legal.
Neither of these things are defined enough to be legally binding. By this interpretation any use of the macro system in the game that a player can get up and walk away from the keyboard while it is running is a violation. Gameplay can be interpreted as simply the act of being in the game sitting snd doing absolutely nothing.
They made the system and were well aware of how it could be used. If they didn't want people to macro sample they wouldnt have made it possible. This is reinforced by the fact that they have already made changes to address the issuebut did not remove the ability to do it.
They aren't going to take you to court, they are just going to cancel your account (I'm sure they'll warn you a few times as well). The EULA is not for your protection. It is to cover SOE's backside to show that they clearly defined and informed you, the user what was expected of you to use thier service, so that when they decide to cancel someones account - they are covered from any frivolous lawsuits.
Bushwa
YOU CANT USE MACROS!
oh wait HERE YOU GO, AN IN GAME MACRO SYSTEM! whoot.
bah, I use it for maybe an hour or 2 a day just to get some resources while i watch a movie. I can understand why they'd crack down on someone with an infinite loop 24/7 tho.
but like i said in another post, if you take away the primary method for most artisans to get thier resources without falling asleep from boredom (cuz they cant make or afford harvesters yet) then you are going to notice a sever shortage of those items you want, and there will be no competitive diversity. everyone will have high prices and yeah.. you know how that goes.
Is sampling res then resting and doing over somehow wrong? Lookcan do that manually (have fun!) or you can use the marcos. Thats why they were put there! TO SAVE YOU TIME!!Thats why they gave you the commands they did! If your telling me that is wrong then you must also be calling SoE fools because they gave us the ability to do it. Why not take advantage of it?
Love these posts from people smart enough to rip the EULA apart , but too stupid to use the Macro the way SEO provided to us ...
This seems to be a hot debate, I have read a lot of posts concerning this. My opinion is that if you make a macro that benefits yourself and it is not considered cheating, then why not use it? This is especially helpful for Artisans who gather their own resources. If they didn't want us to do this, then why was the mining profession destroyed? Maybe Im a little off topic here, because I am still a newbie, but I don't understand everyone complaining about a system that was built into the game. What's next? Will we have to sign an NDA before we start each game session so we can't tell anyone about the uber macro we made to sample vast amounts of material, or for combat, etc? Maybe someone from Sony should actually state the intended purpose of the macroing system, or remove the abilities in question.
GrassMasterDX wrote:
Is sampling res then resting and doing over somehow wrong? Lookcan do that manually (have fun!) or you can use the marcos. Thats why they were put there! TO SAVE YOU TIME!!Thats why they gave you the commands they did! If your telling me that is wrong then you must also be calling SoE fools because they gave us the ability to do it. Why not take advantage of it?
Macros were designed into the game to make your play time more convenient, not your sleep time.
Macros are a multi-purpose tool. The exact same macro legally used while you are playing (i.e. at the computer involved in the game)will beconsidered a violation of the EULA if you let it run while you are off doing other things.
The simple bottom line is money. The longer you are connected to the servers the more SOE pays in bandwidth charges and the less "profit" they make on your account. With all the other overhead costs figured in, there probably is a number of connection hours over which they start to LOSE money on your account.
That's why they have these rules. Most people just play the game then log out when they are done. That is the intended play-style the game was designed around. They put in all kinds of features to minimize the reasons players might want to stay logged in (Harvesters & Factories are two examples) specifically to keep costs down.
However, there are always those folks who insist on "overdoing it" - so they have these rules to set the guidelines for the expected play style.
Breaking, nerfing or disabling the "macro tool" in game will not stop the determined macroers but will negatively impact all the players using macro commands as intended, to assist them during thier play time.
Bushwa
Bushwa - "The simple bottom line is money".
I am not an employee of Sony. I have no global interests in increasing Sony's profits. As a paying customer of their Star Wars Galaxies monthly paid MMORPG they should have an interest in trying to keep me informed, interested, and continuing to subscribe and pay monthly.
You make it sound like we have to make them happy. We are the consumer, they are the retailer of a product they wish to make attractive enough to be extremely profitable for them. They need to give us the fine print (Not available in Hawaii or Alaska, may shrink in the wash, not valid with other offers, not compatible with NES, 5cent return availabe in AK, WV, UT, & FL) and if we go hock 40K of their empty crushed cans in Nevada they can come after us! But if I cashed in 240 Million crushed cans in West Virginia they can't touch me!
OK that got a little nonsequitur-ish.... sorry - hope it makes some sense to a few 
Boinky wrote:
Bushwa - "The simple bottom line is money".
I am not an employee of Sony. I have no global interests in increasing Sony's profits. As a paying customer of their Star Wars Galaxies monthly paid MMORPG they should have an interest in trying to keep me informed, interested, and continuing to subscribe and pay monthly.
You make it sound like we have to make them happy. We are the consumer, they are the retailer of a product they wish to make attractive enough to be extremely profitable for them. They need to give us the fine print (Not available in Hawaii or Alaska, may shrink in the wash, not valid with other offers, not compatible with NES, 5cent return availabe in AK, WV, UT, & FL) and if we go hock 40K of their empty crushed cans in Nevada they can come after us! But if I cashed in 240 Million crushed cans in West Virginia they can't touch me!
OK that got a little nonsequitur-ish.... sorry - hope it makes some sense to a few
The point is to understand the intent of the rules in the EULA, i.e. "why" do they want to restrict AFK Macroing? We are not in charge of making sure SOE makes a profit, but understanding that "making a profit" is the sole reason this game exists (or any product, for that matter) is the baseline to understanding how they will eventually decide who "is" and "is not" violating the EULA.
It is disconcerting to say the least, that many people do not seem to grasp the simple fact that the entire focus of any Company (excluding charities of course) is "to make money".
Bushwa