Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan not worth it, too much idiocy all around.
Well I was one of the Master Artisan looking to cash in on the vehicle release.I was going to charge 10 cpu. I mine all my own material so I would make a very nice profit. Well worth my timeI thought. When I logged on and cranked out some factory crates, I quickly found out that I had no chance to sell at 10 cpu. So I decided not to sell, maybe wait it out a week or two as others have said in some posts. I figured I was not going to be an underseller.
As the week went on and I enjoyed riding my new vehcile, I quickly realized, how much these things were costing in Maint.The first 4 days cost me over 4000 credits in maint costs on my swoop. Now I'm thinkingif I had paid 50 to 100K for this thing and aslo had to dish out 4K+ a week in maint, I would be pretty upset. So here is a question/suggestion to the rest of the master artisans out there, jsut a thought. Seeing that these cost so much in maint, wouldn't we be better off charging less, treating these things as throw away items and attempting to convince the customer that they are better off ignoring the maint, buy two deeds. When one dies whip out the next one and come back to me to for your spare deed.
Anyway, just my thougths on this, would be interested in any feedback positive or negative.Constructive critcism is taken seriously. However, flames are ignorant rantings of people with no original thoughts in thier heads.
I see a lot of posts where people are only including the cost of harvesting.Ialso included the maintenance costs of my shop and vendor plus pay for my time. I had no idea what would be a fair price for vehicles. There was nothing to base it on. I figured 5cpu would be fair to my customers, cover my overhead and give me a nice profit without price gouging. I sold a few but not very many. There were dozens of shops around me that sold for 1-2cpu. So I made my money sellingmy resources at 3cputo these crafters who bought them because they were all out due to overwhelming requests for their cheap vehicles. They contiued to sell them at 1-2cpu because that is what the customer expected, then they wouldbrag to me about the money they were making. I just smiled and nodded.
.28 cpu is the amount it cost me to pull the resource from the ground in power, the maintenance on those power generators, and maintenance on the mineral harvesters.
4-5 cpu is what I sell vehicles for, which gives my vehicles a price range between 21250-40000 credits. This covers my crafting time, my factory, vendor and shop costs, plus my 20% profit margin.
I only use the highest quality materials because making bad product is worse than making no product at all. I gave away all of my crit-fail experimentation vehicles to newbies who couldn't afford my prices because I knew that they would eventually want to buy higher HP ones to use on planets without garages. Those I didn't give away, I destroyed.
A high quality resource has no more inherent value than a low quality one. The perceived value, however, is a different story, but the fact remains that it still costs the same to harvest a high quality resource as it does the low quality resource. At this point, it is demand that will give the value of that resource. If a lot of people are demanding it, I can raise my price for it. Also, if a lot of people are selling this resource, prices will start to fall as supply outstrips demand. This gentle balancing act is the basis of a free-market economy. Supply and demand.
Not everyone gets that simple fact, however. Case in point. I see a high OQ solid petrochemical that I need in abundance for composite armor for sale on the bazaar for 20 cpu (150 units for 3000 credits). I have to buy some, because my Harvesters are sitting on a sweet polysteel copper that I also need in abundance and with stats I will probably never see again and I have some commissions pending that I need to finish. I buy at this price just enough to finish my suits.
I contact the seller by email and ask him how much of the resource he has left and how much he would take for all of it. His response was that he had over a million units and it was 20cpu regardless of how much I wanted because it was too good to give bulk discounts for.
This resouce was still in the game, he had a lot, and he still wanted an outrageous price for it. I declined, telling him I would just mine my own, and he sent back a scathing reply saying it was people like me who were destroying the economy by doing everything myself. Meanwhile, I had found someone who was selling the same resource for 6cpu and would sell me his entire stock for 4 cpu. While still higher than I would normally spend for a resource, it saved me time and money byme not having to redeed and replace my harvesters and allowed me to pull a named resource of ultra-high quality from the ground, saving me money in the long run.
Now, a month or so since the last time a good high OQ solid petrochemical spawned, I could see paying 20cpu for it. If I didn't have any, I would have to, to compete with others who want the same, limited supply of the resource.
Vehicles and Player Mounts worked the same way. CH's can only have so many creatures at one time in their datapad and they either had to buy them from a BE or find them in the wild. The supply of Mounts was extremely limited and the demand was exceedingly high, hence the initial cost of them.
If you had done a search for Master Artisans in the days leading up to the vehicle release, you would have seen the sheer number of them as people tried to position themselves for the big release. Before this time, I could never find anyone displaying the MA title unless it was the only mastery they had! Add to this the ease of the schematic (two lumps of metal, no waiting) and you have the recipe for a glut of vehicles hitting the market.
As a result, cheap vehicles. Crying and moaning that "undercutters" ruined MA's from making a killing is just a lame attempt by lousy businesspeople to explain their lack of success. The real reason you failed to make money is that you charged too much for an easily made product that a large number of people could produce using materials that you paid too much for.
Don't blame me for your failure.
If only companies in RL had forums like this. I can see BMW executives whining thatFordsells more cars thanBMWbecauseFord uses cheapermaterials and sells their cars for less.These crazy devs whosaddled us poor players with a free market economy. I personally enjoy going to a fast food resturant and eating from the 99cent menu. I also enjoy buying my vehicles in SWG for under 10k. Both products of a free market economy. If you can'tcompete,play solitaire (its cheaper).
I sold for 5.5 cru on opening day, selling for a good profit, but not exceptional. I am now selling them for about 4cru, but not keeping more than a few in stock. They are easy to make and replenish as sold and I do not waste my inventory. The excess resources I sell on the bazaar for 4cru, generating the same amount as the vehicles. Could I sell more vhicles if I gave them away for 1 - 2cru? Sure, but what would be the point? It is poor business sense to sell a finished product for less than the value of the materials unless it is a loss leader item.
I love this ddebate in the game, because it assures me that we are following RL business models. Daylin is Wal-Mart, selling loss leader vehicles to get people into his store and drive away the competition. Is he maximizing his profit, no, but he is maximizing his draw. I live in rural Florida and have seen in recent years this debate on WM coming to the area and running the small businesses out by undercutting the market. You can compete on the final quality product, not on price.
Wow, all these people selling stuff at a low profit margin.. You're right. I think, Sam Walton could learn a thing or two from this thread.
BatuYsa wrote:Wow, all these people selling stuff at a low profit margin.. You're right. I think, Sam Walton could learn a thing or two from this thread.
If he weren't dead.
You master artisans crack me up. there is a reason people sold thier vehicles for around 3-4 cpu. Because that is all they are worth. CH's gouged players in the first week, but guess what. This mode of transportation (not the walking/running kind) was new when mounts came out. Vehicles were a runner up. That's it. And since CH is an elite profession and you are not. And it takes a bit more work to grind out CH than MA, I can understand a little bit of higher prices for mounts, though they were too high to begin with. And mounts are more reliable and require much less from their master. Unlike the vehicle owner.
Plus, it takes about as much work to make a vehicle as it takes me to make a basic camp kit. Just requires larger quantities of two resources. The guy who made my vehicle took all of 30 sec. while I waited.
Heck, I can't even make a Stimpak-B with two resources. I have to make several components using several resources each to make one.
If you really want to make money, pick up an Elite Crafting Profession. That's what they are there for.