Artisan Archive
Thread: So you want to cert harvs? Fine. Here's a proposal you won't like...
Velisimner
Sun Jun 20, 2004 4:45 am
#53
I think i have the source of the arguement and why it bothers many ppl.
in a combat profession, i'll use BH for an example. lets say Johnny goodboy BH is a 0400 BH, and happycak is a 0200 BH. now if these guys were to fight with same stats, no armor, no buff, no tapes, no nothing. it is highly likely that Johnn goodboy is going to win, logic would dictate that Johnny who has put in more time and effort than happycak would win.
how does this relate to artisan and the surveying branch, if you havent got it yet i'll try and explain.
an artisan who has 0004 in the skill tree, which is surveying 4, the only advantage they gain is a wider surveying radius, which is nothing really. now anyone with the novice survey command can look for resources and place a harvester.even if one does not havenovice artisan they can still plop down a harvester and check or if they are lucky and come across an area where there are a few harvesters and drophis/her own and still reap the benifets. this, IMO, is very unfair to the person who has the surveying skills who spent the time and effort to get them. yes i know it can be grinded... a 0004 artisan holds very little advantage in the surveying field, eventhough artisan is a novice profession, in relation to resource aquisition this is ludacris. the artisan or surveyor if you will does all the work and reaps only some of the reward whereas in a combat class, a 0400 BH hold tremdous advantage over a 0200 BH, Elite profession aside im sure its the same in many other areas.
by this theory alone, it makes the miners job useless, though someone has to do it. and there are many players who enjoy this aspect of the game, and we deserve somthing, at least more than a wider radius of survey.
i concur that everyone should be able to mine, though not on the same level.
how does anyone else feel about that?
HalasterTheBlack
Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:26 am
#54
BiancaMinola wrote:
When I was Correspondent, the revival of the miner was a long-standing wish of the community.
The devs said NO. They wouldn't even discuss it.
So giving you the point that certifications 'belong' in a miner profession, does not change the fact that certifications would breath some life into the economic 'game' of SWG. So would a commodities market, the ability to make contracts, rent lots from each other...etc.
While we are here bickering over one of the many ideas that have been forewarded to make SWG a more interesting game, we are forgetting the fact that the developers have not, and apparently will not discuss anything with the Artisan community.
We all have different ideas about what the game needs - I think Harvester Certification is a good, and FAIR idea. Take that for what you will.
The REAL problem that is plaguing Artisans is an absolutely apathetic Dev. team responce to anything and everything that is not combat/jedi related.
Bianca Minola
Bianca, the only thing harvester certs in the artisan tree will do is encourage further x-server trades.
How exactly will that "breathe life into the economic game of SWG?
Bugbait
Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:39 am
#55
Someone referred me to this thread. Sorry to say you're barking up the wrong tree by pointing the one star finger at me. I was tempted to one star you for your lack of manners though
Srednii wrote:
lol, nah. he doesn't have the self control, I figure it's either joined or that bug guy who's one staring people still. Tho I notice someone went and one stared joined a bunch in return
lol, that's mostly what I'm doing now; lurking and 5 starting 1 starred posts
. Why do the stars bother you and Halaster anyway? Just stick to the argument anddon't worry about howmany stars you get. The star rating is about as meaningful as a high school popularity contest. Only those with self esteem issues seem to care.
HalasterTheBlack
Sun Jun 20, 2004 5:54 am
#56
They don't bother me. They simply give me the opportunity to attack the character and intellectof the one-star bandits. 
BiancaMinola
Sun Jun 20, 2004 1:14 pm
#58
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Bianca, the only thing harvester certs in the artisan tree will do is encourage further x-server trades.
How exactly will that "breathe life into the economic game of SWG?
Cross server trades are happening without Harvester Certs. They have not one thing to do with each other.
There is NO economic game in SWG. I have billionaires on several servers - with very little work invested in most of them.
There is no real economic competition, there is no economic risk, there is no thought involved in building an empire, there is no risk of losing your empire.
The economic game is meaningless - to the point where, for me, there is no point.
Adding rulesets to the economic game, which force people to make choices about their character development should be part of the economic game.
I want a good GAME, I fear most want a chat room with lightsabers.
Bianca Minola
Srednii
Sun Jun 20, 2004 7:36 pm
#59
Bugbait wrote:
Someone referred me to this thread. Sorry to say you're barking up the wrong tree by pointing the one star finger at me. I was tempted to one star you for your lack of manners though
Srednii wrote:
lol, nah. he doesn't have the self control
lol, that's mostly what I'm doing now; lurking and 5 starting 1 starred posts
heh, the 1 star'er doesn't bother me :, they amuse me. It's that need in me to poke and prod at stuff that makes me wonder who it is . It's like a little mystery, "Who's the one star bandit! Find out at eleven!" and it's consistent enough to be a single person. heh, consistent enough that if I worried about it I wouldn't post on any of these posts since I know I'm gonna get it lol.(lack of manners? I thought I was reasonably polite , unless you think disagree'ing with you is impolite )
, unless you think disagree'ing with you is impolite )
outtacontrol
Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:28 pm
#60
GraySeven wrote:
Man, this horse is dead...
This argument about combat-characters supplementing their income by harvesting and taking it away from Artisans is invalid.
That is probably the truest part of the argument I totally disagree, yes certs admitedly may not be the solution. first all artisan in comparison to complete autonomy with the other 4 novice professions is a complete joke.I was going to go thru the bs of using scout as an example but i figured what the hell lets go to theSWG manual section 2.4 instead whereit states exactly
> ARTISAN
The Artisan is the crafting profession in Star Wars Galaxies. The profession's starting attributes reflect a focus on cerebral pursuits: Artisans are quite good at building other mental activities. However, they are not designed for direct combat confrontations. Artisans are especially important in Star Wars Galaxies because these characters create nearly all the equipment in the game. Also, as Artisans advance and begin exploring Hybrid and Elite Professions, they gain unique perks: only an Artisan can build certain structures on battlefields, an extremely important role in the Galactic Civil War.
Starting Skill: Novice Artisan. Provides ability to craft basic weapons, clothing, foodstuffs, and even trinkets and toys. Allows Artisan to locate and extract small quantities of several different resources.
Elite Professions: Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, Architect, Merchant, Chef, Tailor, Droid Engineer
I took the liberty of highlighting some the qoute. Do i really need to go and show what the rest of the NON CRAFTING professions say. I guarantee you will not see one word under any of the combat classes about extracting and locating resources.it clearly states thatextracting resources is "A SKILL" not a supplement to our income.Also in the manual under section 2.5 the manual uses the following example for hyrbrid application again I will use highlights.
Need i say anymore....
Outta
outtacontrol
Sun Jun 20, 2004 11:46 pm
#62
Srednii wrote:
pssssstt
/whisper
"They're talking about sampling!"
/whisper
/whisper
it says in the example clearly that scouts and artisans collect resources
/whisper
Srednii
Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:08 am
#63
pssst
/whisper
"sampling and harvesting are on a par. Mining with harvesters produces numbers so far in excess of either as to be a totally seperate source. Hence why it was a skillset for the miner in beta, and why they gave the ability to everyone once miner was removed."
/whisper
Korlan
Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:11 am
#64
man you got some major hate for the artisan profession? Did an artisan steal your lunch money or something? I mean really.
Artisan is just as important to this game as a weaponsmith or armorsmith... so if we want to stake a claim on something that should be exclusive to crafting profession.. so be it.
Rifes are almost exclusive to riflemen..
Pistols to pistoleers....
Marksman is the start for all of these and is carried threw out.
And so is artisan.. for the MAJOR players.
The way I look at it, if you want to use the large harvestors... you should have Survey 4... period... cert to that branch only.
simple and easy... so all the elite crafting professions will just have to arrage some skill points but in the end the world will be a better place.
Srednii
Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:46 am
#65
oh yes, it's because I hate the artisan proffession (been master for a year now) that I don't want to get nerfed (I use my combat alt for lots). :rolleyesmiley:
Actually... by your example... rifles arn't exclusive to riflemen... marksman uses em too ditto for pistols. So by your reasoning the certs would have lesser certs in artisan... and then mediums and heavy's in the elite classes.
ditto for pistols. So by your reasoning the certs would have lesser certs in artisan... and then mediums and heavy's in the elite classes.Harvester certs don't belong in the game. It's as simple as that. That havn't belonged in the game since beta when they removed the miner proffession. AN ELITE CRAFTING CLASS. There's no way you'll convince the devs, or even more then a mere handfull of players that that basic starting proffession "Artisan" should receive an elite classes skillset "miner".
There's a ton of things that oculd be done to improve artisan. Some bug fixes (long over due ones like fixing the artisan missions), altering vehicles so that quality matters, additional schematics, more interdependency's (things like heavy duty leather and clasps for tailors being craftable by artisans), changes to how powerups are made for more control. And I would love to see any and all of those things happen.
I just don't want harvester certs. I guess that makes me an evil artisan hater. :rolleyesmileyagaincauseImockyou: