Artisan Archive
Thread: I use 20 crates of Power ups a day and...
With one mark after expenses he could probably buy 1 or 2 Scatter Pistols. They're pretty cheap on Valcyn (8k or less). He currently has 8 or more of every BH weapon and doesn't go through them very quickly. Even if Scatters went up to 50k he could easily make more than that in what the Scatter would kill.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Your friend that enjoys hunting marks... how many marks does he have to hunt to buy a scatter pistol?
How will he feel about having to hunt so many marks for his next scatter pistol that his current one disintegrates to dust before he can afford to replace it?
There's an old adage about arguing with fools.
Therefore, good luck in your delusion.
Brilyn wrote:
< Ranged attackers fire a single shot at a time, hence my math is sound in this respect. >
No, it's not.
Carbineers, for one, have Cone attacks. They get the first one at Carbine II in the Marksman tree.
Every *single* Marksman has Point Blank Area 1, from Novice Marcksman
Commandos get Cone attacks with the Acid Rifle, and Flamethrower.
Bounty Hunters get it with the Lightning Cannon.
Seriously, you need to pull out of this discussion, as you clearly don't know what you're talking about, beyond your own anecdotel evidence.
I actually find you funny!... 
First of all, I am quite aware of the area and cone attacks of the ranged classes. Thank you so much for reminding me. You know, a lot of people actually do know how to read...and even master more than one profession <wink>.... 
Next...how does an LLC, and a Flamethrower come into a discussion on power-ups?
And finally...since you deem yourself competent enough to tell someone to pull out of a conversation, perhaps you can furnish evidence of increased rate of usage of powerups? Also, since the math comes from SOE, perhaps you would be kind enough to do us all a favour and tell SOE to go stuff their anecdotal formulae...
It's wonderful that you are making a decent living as a Master Artisan...if indeed you are one at all. I applaud you. But I still think it is BS. I've been a Master Artisan since beta, made and sold everything that a master artisan can make and sell. I make money, but no...no-where near what you claim to make. I especially like the part where you say that you make 100k - 120k periodically....what kind of period...every 3 months or so?
Message Edited by Defconn on 05-22-2004 01:55 AM
- Only the lot owner can open the "Operate Machinery" menu item for harvesters.
Ooh! *Chilling*! That gets us close. Still open for abuse, because I can x-server my houses and factories, which in effect x-server's my lots... hmm...
OK, I can't think of a reasonable solutoin to the housing and factory thing. Because it *is* legitimate for multiple people to share factories and houses (manufacturing companies, malls, etc.).
Still, I think that one change would solve asignificant portionof the cross-server harvester lot trading problem.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Aha! NOW you list a problem that really *is* a problem - cross-server lot trades. Yes, I agree that cross-server lot trades are detrimental to the economy. I would like to find a way to solve that problem that does not adversely affect legitimate players on the galaxy.
That last part is very important to me.
So... how do we fix that?
We can't achieve both goals with harvester certs. Because harvester certs will fook legit players. (Besides, you get the *best* weapons (T21, DX2, VK) at Novice Elite professions.Extrapolating YOUR OWN logic, heavy harv certs including fusion would have to go to Novice Elite crafting professions; NOT Master Artisan...)
I disagree. You can basically certify an item at any point. There are so many types of weapons, but only 3 grades of harvester, so why make it complicated? Also, a well sliced FWG5 out-damages (different damage type, no doubt) a DX2 quite easily, VK's are not certified yet usable by novice brawlers (people use them to level unarmed since it's speed still comes through...a bug?), a well sliced laser rifle easily out-damages a T21, and a common DXR-6b can out-damage both.
Please don't mistakenly extrapolate my logic. Harvesters are meant to be used by the majority of the player base...and that makes it a starter piece of equipment. I simply advocate putting it slightly higher in the skill chain instead of making it a "money for nothing" piece of equipment.
So, alternatives to harvester certs? How about:
- Only the lot owner can open the "Operate Machinery" menu item for harvesters.
Ooh! *Chilling*! That gets us close. Still open for abuse, because I can x-server my houses and factories, which in effect x-server's my lots... hmm...
Houses and factories are not truly a problem. In fact, it may be beneficial in lowering prices should store houses and factories be easily available to crafters. It is simply the harvesters. There are too many of them, and they don't degrade.
Defconn wrote:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Aha! NOW you list a problem that really *is* a problem - cross-server lot trades. Yes, I agree that cross-server lot trades are detrimental to the economy. I would like to find a way to solve that problem that does not adversely affect legitimate players on the galaxy.
That last part is very important to me.
So... how do we fix that?
We can't achieve both goals with harvester certs. Because harvester certs will fook legit players. (Besides, you get the *best* weapons (T21, DX2, VK) at Novice Elite professions.Extrapolating YOUR OWN logic, heavy harv certs including fusion would have to go to Novice Elite crafting professions; NOT Master Artisan...)
I disagree. You can basically certify an item at any point. There are so many types of weapons, but only 3 grades of harvester, so why make it complicated? Also, a well sliced FWG5 out-damages (different damage type, no doubt) a DX2 quite easily, VK's are not certified yet usable by novice brawlers (people use them to level unarmed since it's speed still comes through...a bug?), a well sliced laser rifle easily out-damages a T21, and a common DXR-6b can out-damage both.
Please don't mistakenly extrapolate my logic. Harvesters are meant to be used by the majority of the player base...and that makes it a starter piece of equipment. I simply advocate putting it slightly higher in the skill chain instead of making it a "money for nothing" piece of equipment.
So, alternatives to harvester certs? How about:
- Only the lot owner can open the "Operate Machinery" menu item for harvesters.
Ooh! *Chilling*! That gets us close. Still open for abuse, because I can x-server my houses and factories, which in effect x-server's my lots... hmm...
Houses and factories are not truly a problem. In fact, it may be beneficial in lowering prices should store houses and factories be easily available to crafters. It is simply the harvesters. There are too many of them, and they don't degrade.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
Even more, I hope that if they do that I'm very, very wrong about what reducing resource influx by over 75% will do to the game economy.
I would say that figure is way off. There would be a fair amount of the population that would get just enough Artisan boxes to get medium if not heavy harvester certifications. They don't at the moment because there is no need to. Why waste skill points when you don't have too? When I had a defence stacking template I had sinlge trees all over the place. When they introduced the 125 cap I dropped the Fencer defense line and the brawler prerequisites. Where people spend their skill points at any given time is a calculated decision in return on investment. Even if you don't agree with this theory everyone who currently uses BER 13's could drop to BER 5's. That's not a 75% drop in harvesting on a purely nominal level. Harvesting is good money even at BER 2 so there's no reason why uncertified people wouldn't continue to harvest with BER 5 personals. If I was to estimate I'd expect a 25%-30% drop in harvesting at most. Even 50% seems excessive in my opinion.
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
So tell me, what were the assumptions and logic you used to come up with your 25-30% figure?
I basically plucked it out of thin air. It was past 4am and I was getting sleepy. I'm not going to argue the merits of my estimate because I don't really care for it's value so if people think it's garbage then let them. Let's just say it's a figure that I'd stand by if I was asked to supply a figure I'd bet on.
Curious, why would all cross server trades die off? A fair amount of cross server trades are for static lots (ie. Houses and factories) since they're easier to manage especially in terms of time.
Bugbait wrote:
HalasterTheBlack wrote:
So tell me, what were the assumptions and logic you used to come up with your 25-30% figure?
I basically plucked it out of thin air. It was past 4am and I was getting sleepy. I'm not going to argue the merits of my estimate because I don't really care for it's value so if people think it's garbage then let them. Let's just say it's a figure that I'd stand by if I was asked to supply a figure I'd bet on.
Curious, why would all cross server trades die off? A fair amount of cross server trades are for static lots (ie. Houses and factories) since they're easier to manage especially in terms of time.
Message Edited by HalasterTheBlack on 05-21-2004 02:59 PM
I don't think ALL cross-server trades would die off because we would still have the house / factory trades going but if you limited the 'Operate Machinery' option as noted in a previous post than you would not have the problem of running across a static Harvester field of 100 Heavies that are all operated by the same person because they managed to trade all their lots cross-server.
I have a character on Eclipse that I play a lot and in the area North of Theed I twice ran across Harvester fields that were 50 or more Harvesters all titled the same and (I am assuming) owned by the same person lined up in a nice orderly fashion making it impossible for anyone else to put even aPersonal Harvester down much less anything bigger. Not being able to harvest there is not the problem though... The problem is the millions of units those harvesters are putting out on the market.
If we truly limit the 'Operate Machinery' function to the owner of the Harvester than at most anyone can run 10 Harvesters (and be put on admin for Harvies owned by their alt - which I think is fine because if you are paying a subscription fee than you are entitled to those 10 lots for whatever purpose you choose). The House/Factory x-server trades shouldn't hurt anyone really because the most harvesters that has a chance of adding are the 10 for the person who has their house/factories on cross-server lots.
I don't see any trouble with this and won't even try to get into the Economics of anything as everyone else is wanting to do because those arguments are all speculation and could go on ad nauseum until I grow old.
Either would I but it does happen more often than you probably think. Structures are only deleted when a character is deleted, they are not removed (oversight maybe) when a character is idle (account inactive). I have a feeling the Dev's intentionally leave structures in play for inactive characters in a hope they might return to the game
Srednii wrote:
People actually trust cross server lot trading with their factories and houses?!?!??!?!? *boggle*
All it would take is your trade partner quiting the game and having all his lots poof and you lose a house full of irriplacable resources, or a factory full of resources and components andfinished products.
There's no way I'd trust another person with that much of my livelyhood.
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