Artisan Archive
Thread: If macro sampling is so wrong...
If someone is macro-sampling, they are most likely just starting off. I used to do it, but I just buy it cheap on the market now. I am at a higher level, and I can afford to buy it. macroing is also not nearly as efficient as using harvesters. There is only one hopper for a macro-er. People who use harvesters collect exponentiially more resources in the same amount of time, but for a price. Plus a macroer can get killed or get booted from the server.
I think removing macroing will hurt the players who are just starting. I would like to see some of you complainers start over and not use any macros today. The market is alot different now compared to where you started...
I fail to see how allowing removal of credits and power from a harvester equates free money. It negates LOSS of money, by allowing you to get back what you put into a harvester.
What about redeeding CerionSkydreamer? If I toss 5k credits worth of MP into a harvester and then pick it right back up, should that MP vanish?
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Permethrin wrote:
... This is IMPOSSIBLE to police. ...
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Nah. It's trivial, and automatic - it can be simply based on the "average hours per login", oreven the "max hours logged in" stats. The bottom line is bandwidth/month used by your account.
If your account is outside the statistical norms for the server population, a monitoring process (if they have even bothered to automate it yet) will just send an e-mail to the person monitoring this information.
Heck, they could even automate the warning messages sent to the Customer if they felt like it ... :-)
Bushwa
Armorsmith isn't the only interdependent profession. Architect and droid engineer both require components that only a master artisan can make, for example. And don't blow away the combat professions' need for weapons so quickly. Weapon smiths and combat types can't survive without each other. I think your issue may be that armor, even high end armor, is, right now, of limited value, which isn't good news for an armorsmith.
You wrote:
"Oh, and why the hell is the armorsmith the ONLY interdependant crafter when SOE keeps touting their beloved interdependent game? Medics aren't interdependent (buy a rancor your set for life, just heal it), combat classes SURE AS HELL aren't interdependent, sure they have to buy a gun or two, but who doesn't? Armor hindrances make it totally not worth is, altho all the idiots that just want the big new armor that's popular still wear it even tho they can't heal at all.. /sigh give me a reason to keep my account SOE, as I don't have one yet."
Am I bad because I run the macro or because I leave the computer. If I am bad because I run a macro, then there are TONS of macros. There are SWG staff sponsoring forum groups on macro use. Ok, that's not bad, then. So I'm bad for leaving the computer. Well, my player is cross trained as a scout. I put up a camp and have to sit there for an hour while I heal up. Can't leave the computer??? Come on folks.
The question isn't whether you are "bad" or not. But you are clearly in violation of the license agreement to whichyou click "I Agree" to get through every time you log on.The EULA is a contract between you and SOE. Really not even a scrap of paper but the idea of a binding agreement between parties is part of the foundation of civilized society.
No you are not bad but you are uncivilized and untrustworthy. Sure society isn't going to crash and burn because you've violated your agreement with SOE but it is a matter of principle and integrity. Yes it places me at a disadvantage to abstain from lying and cheating but any advantage gained would come at too high a price to my way to thinking.
Null Tensor
This BS about someone AFK causing too much load is ridiculous. The servers should be able to support every account online all at once if need be. I remember EQ encouraging people to get their friends online so they could beat a record of users online. That sentence in the Eula is most likely referring to something else, like people used to use spam to cause LAG in EQ and cause people to LD... something like that.
If I pay for my account, then I should be able to be on as long as the servers are up. It's not your business or anyone elses if I walk away from my keyboard a bit to eat or take a crap or whatever. You people need to just play the game and stop worrying so much what everyone else is doing. Do I care that Entertainers dance AFK? Not one bit... I can still go in there and lower my fatigue ...and I bet you whiners do too. If you are so POed about AFK macroing...don't lower your fatigue by listening to or watching an AFK entertainer. (which I bet you hypocrits do every day.)
You want to hear another horrible crime? In EQ I used to use the available NumLk key to run/travel while I was AFK getting a soda or who knows what... OMG I am so bad.
The bottom line is they put the MACROs in the game, what is a macro? It's a command that let you perform a series of tasks without performing them individually. Exactly what the Macro-surveyers are doing. Creating a macro to perfom a series of tasks so they don't have to do them individually. If they don't want us to do that ....THEY SHOULDN"T HAVE PUT MACROS IN THE GAME.
I really don't understand why 2 or 3 of you guys have made this your mission there are plenty of other more important things wrong with the game than people harvesting a few hundred hunks a metal while AFK.
Get a life.
I'm not out of the artisan skill tree yet. I was thinking of an elite profession, but then decided to spend more points in another artisan line so I'm not having to grind out a lot of exp. I'm making a small amount of items each day and selling them. I'm getting exp for them of course, but my goal is not exp or it would be easier to grind.
From what I understand an elite crafter needs massive resources so macroing probably isn't gonna cut the mustard here. An artisan serious about money probably needs more resources than can be macroed up quickly, but macros can equal two harvesters over time, so this might be an issue.
My only worry about macro harvesting is that it brings free resources into the economy. I don't think it was the intent of the economy to have thousands of resources added in this manner. What overall effect it has I'm still not sure. For the beginning player, sampling is the only viable option to gain the small amount of resources. I'm just not sure what effect macros that bring in thousands does.
For me it's the same either way... if there were no macros available. I would sit there and press buttons and grind away at harvesting. So either way the same amount of resources would be there and the same amount of bandwidth would be used.
A lot of Artisans set a macro for harvesting and actually build things while harvesting.
But anyway the amount of resources in the game from macro-self-harvesting is a drop in the bucket of the resources from all the hundreds of Harvesters out there cranking away 24/7.
I have done a fair share (though not tons) of AFK sampling. Many others have as well. Many have done AFK Entertaining as well (are there other AFK possiblities? I know not). If this is a clear cut infringement upon out agreement coming into the game then why is it also only possible by the accepted commands in the game? Now if this was a complete exploit they hadn't caught/weren't aware of, or was only made possible by a third-party piece of software I could buy into the reasons for it being wrong. But don't throw somebody into the middle of a war-zone, give them 2 machine guns, tons of ammo, and then tell them not to defend themselves. You've given us the tools to fight the crafting battle - you just don't want us to utilize them.
Some scattered, ancillary ideas on the subject
I and some of my friends who've played other MMORPGs have often found ourselves staying in-game but totally AFK for no other reason that we might not be sure how soon we are going back to it, or have certain gameplay issues with having to log off now and come back later, or sometimes having fell asleep at the keyboard. Folks being AFK in a game of this sort - this isn't something you are prohibited from. Maybe it's not encouraged, but there is no percentage requirement detailed in the EULA of active gametime to AFK gametime. Besides which, those of you arguing about AFK-Samplers taking too much of the server's bandwith better target the folks who have days on end to play as well. Doesn't matter if they are not AFK, they still take up a spot on the server correct? And they would be even worse. What might lag you more severely, 5 AFK Samplers, or 5 folks shouting what Training they can do, Complaining about the lag, Asking where the mission terms are, Letting the city know they are mounting a hunting party for Kreetles gathering at the Cantina(letting us all know about 3.7 times every minute), or helping us all have fun(fun with the truly prodigous amounts of Lag) watching them light Firework after Firework in an already crowded town?!?! Did my tone tip ya off? Yep, the Lag-Inducing folks are not the AFK Samplers! One can only assume those of you who rant against it are either jealous (in some way shape or form I guess), overly moral and would put our names in their book of evil if they ever saw us kill a spider in RL, or possibly have reasons I can't imagine right now(angry cause they could never get a good AFK-macro working, or thinking we are some kind of uber-power-gamers doing this - I'm just trying to keep my Droid-Engi head above the top of the sinking sand-pit so I might not get sucked down to the Saarlac's greedy fangs)
If this is an exploit - take it out of the game! It is extremely unfair to put a game out, let you do something, then try and threaten your account for simply doing something that was programmed into the game. But if it is considered an exploit or at least bad behavior I'd suggest a few changes that might make this less appealing at least to me.
Harvestors (even the entry level Personal models) should be able to garner resource amounts well and above what personally sampling can. Harvestors should also be cheaper in Maintenence(not Power), and if you have to re-deed a Harvestor(say because the resource you were getting 1 1/2 days ago is gone) you should be able to get back any excess Creds and Power you put into it.
I have now lost focus so will end this now......
-Boinky Siwinski - Droid Engineer - Bard - Part-Time Cynic - Tarquinas - Tatooine - MOF City
Permethrin wrote:
Yeah right. You are being monitored because you play a lot.
If you two weekly play profiles like:
DaysHours
1####
2###
3#####
4####
5#####
6#############
7###############
Total49
1##################
2######################
3#####################
4#######################
5###################
6#######################
7######################
Total148
and you know that an account is no longer profitable ( costs more in bandwidth + overhead than the monthly charge) at 100 connection hours per week, it would be in your best interest as a business to go have a chat with customer number two and find out what the heck they are doing.
If they happen to be an independently wealthy handicapped player who can't leave the house, never sleepsand is actually playing the game that whole time (responds to /tells etc.) then they might leave them alone.
If customer number two doesn't respond to messages, hasn't moved from the same coordinates for 3 days and is repetitively /standing, /sampling, /sitting etc. SOE has every reason to cancel his account - they are losing money on it.
Bushwa