Artisan Archive
Thread: If macro sampling is so wrong...
NullTensor wrote:
- Cry me a river.
- Read my posts about server sizing and resource consumption.
You're gonna have to be a bit more specific with that one, because I don't really know what you're referring to.
And if you read the LIVE Dev posts, you would notice that Holo said AFK macroing was against the intent of the game.
I tend to believe that he is the one who would know what is intended, and what isn't.
Bianca Minola
So 17-18 year olds who do not need job's because they are in school and live with their parents are all losers? I'm sure my son would disagree.
In any case AFK sampling is wrong. You may not think it is but the DEV's do. So you don't have the same amount of hours to spend with the game as I do, because I own my own company...
Well that is something you should have considered before buying the game. I know they said casual gamers could enjoy the game just as much as powergamers...and they can. Some weeks I have played for only 5 hours and guess what I did with that time? I located SUPERB densities of particular resources plopped down and sampled.
For those who say sampling is slower than harvesting....are you playing the same game I am? My harvester on a 78% density accumulated 328 units in four hours. While sampling at a nearby location with 72% for 30 minutes yeilded 455 units. How is that slower?
I suppose AFK samplers would not see anything wrong with a macro that allowed a player to run around killing MOBs, running to a hospital, shouting "10000cr for a quick heal", running back out and killing more. What would the difference be? They get combat and weapons XP while AFK which is the same as getting survey XP and the resources for artisans.
Actually it is even worse for artisans to do it. Combat and weapons XP does not drive the market.
What is the difference between using a harvester or macroing? Let's see....I pay for a harvester which entails making the appropriate amount of cash. I pay maintenace and energy to the harvester. I wait and wait for enough resources to accumulate with no way of knowing what is in the hopper until I run 42984m away from town to check it.
Or I AFK macro, go get a bite to eat, hang out with the wife and kids, watch some tv, read a book and come back to find I have alot more resources than the guy next to me who is using a harvester.
How in the heck is this fair? It isn't.
It has been stated that AFK macroing was not what was intended. The counter-argument always seems to be "well I will do it until they take away the ability".
What if you found out that using /jump gained you 3958328 credits....would you do it until they took the ability away or recognize it as an exploit, report it and move on?
It obviously would not be intended, yet the ability is there....so that makes it right in your eyes?
Perhaps we should all just AFM macro so that the people who ALSO paid to play find that they cannot log-in due to server load, and do away with harvesters altogether. We can then flood the market with every resource thus bringing down the economy. The counter to that usually being "I don't see the market being flooded, the bazaar has hardly any resources listed". Ok, you may be right on that one, but let's see what happens in 4 months if AFK sampling is not fixed, that is removed. Oh you need doonium for a bowcaster? I have 249087590235980 units of that which I aquired whilst watching Terminator 3. I will sell it for .00004cr per unit. Thats 9963503609 credits to me for watching Terminator 3 woohoo!!!!!!!!! Oh someone else spent thousands of credits harvesting it? Or hours of REAL sampling....too bad for them eh?
vejita51 wrote:
....
... Der, don't be an idiot about this; I'm not going to NOT gather that resource because the jackasses at SOE have decided what IS and ISN'T an "intended" way of gaming. I'm not cheating, and I'm not doing anything that the game doesn't allow me to do with its OWN tools and utilities. There's NO WAY I can set up a harvester for that resource without wasting thousands of credits that I don't have and tons of time flying around the planet, or to other planets, to find a resource that I could just sample in my home town. It's not worth it. And I'm not going to do it just because it will make you happy.
And I resent you even thinking that I do this to get a "leg up" on other ppl or to be l337. I'm not playing this game to be better than anybody, which should be very **edit** obvious in my going armorcrafting over weaponsmith. I'd get an even bigger leg up if I travelled around and set up harvesters instead of AFK sampling. Untill the devs can 1) not put the highest % of a resource in an unbuildable area or 2) make harvesters MORE attractive than AFK sampling (mind you, not nerf the **edit** out of sampling), then I will continue to AFK sample, and believe there's NOTHING wrong with it.
Make a GOOD point, and I'll actually give you some merit.
Good point #1: It is explicity not allowed in the EULA that you agree to abide by every time you start the game.
Good point #2: Because of point #1, they can cancel your account for doing it.
Just because you don't understand thier reasoning for not allowing it, doesn't change the fact that they don't.
Doesn't matter if you agree with them or not, they get to decide what "is" and "isn't" cheating - not you.
Bushwa
What about AFK entertainers dancing or playing a song, to me it's the same thing. Why allow people to go AFK at all if you don't want them to? Make the game shut off after 5 minutes of AFK...I could pretty much be a master entertainer all while being AFK.
Secondly, why have macros in the game? If you don't want people to use macros to make their life easier then don't have them availible. EQ never had them, and you could actually get banned in that game for using macros at all.
Lastly, Whats the difference if I set my guy sampling and stare at the screen for hours on end doing nothing or set a macro and walk away a bit? The same thing gets accomplished, I am just not there to respond to tells.....aw.
I am not really defending it, but if you have it availible and multiple classes are using macros while AFK then so be it.
The main reason I have used a sampling macro is because I cant afford to keep harvesters going anymore since nothing I build will sell. Since the market has tons of what I can make already, and everyone has moved on to something better.
Well I'd be glad to answer the question 'why do I afk sample?'
I use afk sampling to supplement my harvesting operations because I have already filled all ten of my lots, and I simply need more harvesting power. Soon I will be ableto makemedium harvesters and will probably find less use for afk sampling.
I also use sample macro'ing as a portable harvester. Since all of my ten slots are used, the sample macro allows me to go harvest 500-1k of a resource I need without having to choose one of my other operations to shut down. This is particularly important because you cannot retrieve power/credits from a harvester, so to minimize losses I must wait until a harvester runs all the way down before doing this.
Since I can effectively turn myself into a portable harvester this way, what effect would causing sampling to consume credits/power have?
I would like to point out that the ability to remove credits and power from a harvester is ABSOLUTELY necessary, and should be an issue that everyone with harvesters is concerned about.
Grennitsch says:
"I would like to point out that the ability to remove credits and power from a harvester is ABSOLUTELY necessary, and should be an issue that everyone with harvesters is concerned about."
Uhm, no. It is not absolutely necessary. It is the only thing that puts the risk in mining after a mine has existed for 5 days.
I disagree. I am not concerned about it. If you allow removal of MP and Power, then you might as well let all the mines play out to 10 days, or better yet give everyone free credits, because that's what it amounts to.
I don't have any problem with macro sampling. It is not the end of the world for swg like people are trying to make it out to be. If someone wants to macro sample, I say let them. Its their account.
I've done both macro sampling and harvesting. Fact of the matter is, once you get up the food chain, you cannot support your resource needs by macro sampling. Period! Not sure why the ranting goes on about this. At novice weaponsmith you need metal (preferably two different types), reactive gas, low-grade ore, and a petro to make stuff. It can't be done with macros. I need to run at least three harvestors plus a wind generator to do any serious crafting. I use macros when I need a short supply of something that is available within the no-building radius.
As for the "away from your computer is against the universal gaming handbook, section blah, blah, blah", there is NO SUCH RULE. I've played EQ, AO, DAOC, AC and this. In almost every case there was an afk option for some characters. Some end user agreements have tried to control it. Trying to manage it is impossible. Frankly, I applaud the SWG group for recognizing it and not making a big deal about it. You can't control what people do at their computers! Stop the wah, wah, wah about it. I've been a gamer for many years andpart of the culture is adaptation. I've stopped macroing simply because it doesn't come close to meeting my resource needs. If other want to do it great.
As for the server occupied time, thats for SOE. They should be able to handle those that want to play in whatever form they play. I'm on Bloodfin (a server that has its fair share of problems) and I don't have a problem getting in when I want to play. Sometimes it take a few minutes.
For entry level artisan's its a good option to gather things and allows them to spend their on-line time crafting not clicking "Sample". For the casual player, this is more important. Running a harvestor is time consuming and I don't see the need to make the new crafter have to do it.
Harvesters are inefficient and/or too time-consuming to maintain? I don't know what it is you're doing, but I now have 16 harvesters (friend's unused lots) and have not had a problem yet.
BiancaMinola wrote:
I approach the problem from'WHY do people AFK sample?'
If the answer is because harvesters are inefficent, or too time consuming to maintain, I'm closer to agreeing, but I think the problem that needs to be addressed is the harvesters.
NullTensor wrote:
That's nice, glad to hear the devs doing 180's on every issue. Just remove the artisan from the game then, they serve no purpose.
If it were me I'd drop the macro string lengthdown to 512 bytes and drop the /load command from the clients altogether. That still leaves space for simple and useful macros and deals with the macro issue altogether.
I can call a recursive macroing function in less than 100 to 150 characters. Does that mean that all macroing should be nerfed? I say the answer lies in AFK'ers... Not Macro'ers...
If the server load is getting Heavy, kick AFK'ers. Starting with those that have been AFK the longest.
Permethrin wrote:
I don't have any problem with macro sampling. It is not the end of the world for swg like people are trying to make it out to be. If someone wants to macro sample, I say let them. Its their account.
I've done both macro sampling and harvesting. Fact of the matter is, once you get up the food chain, you cannot support your resource needs by macro sampling. Period!
I agree completely. If you see someone macro-sampling, they're either just beginning or haven't realized the power of harvesters. I have over 30k of steel right now and don't even stay logged in all the time.
Permethrin wrote:
As for the "away from your computer is against the universal gaming handbook, section blah, blah, blah", there is NO SUCH RULE. I've played EQ, AO, DAOC, AC and this. In almost every case there was an afk option for some characters. Some end user agreements have tried to control it. Trying to manage it is impossible. Frankly, I applaud the SWG group for recognizing it and not making a big deal about it. You can't control what people do at their computers! Stop the wah, wah, wah about it. I've been a gamer for many years andpart of the culture is adaptation. I've stopped macroing simply because it doesn't come close to meeting my resource needs. If other want to do it great.
You are welcome to your opinion, but try not to spread false information. There is such a rule for SWG (as well as most other MMORPG - but I'm not bothering to look them up for you).
It's buried in the EULA at:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Policies%20EULA
7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
Bushwa