Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan not worth it, too much idiocy all around.
You say again and again that if you buy resources you are probably paying 3cr/unit, which I've indeed found to be the case. Now why would that be? Because that's what people are willing to spend, even for grinding-quality resources. So the demand is obviously there. If it weren't, people would lower their prices until it was.
Let's say I'm sitting on 90k of steel and 25k of aluminum. By the above, I could sell them for 270k and 75k respectively. Even faster, if they are not grinding-grade but good stuff, and with good word of mouth. You could probably even sell all that to just one crafter, if the material were good enough.
Assuming that I paid .3cr for the materials, I spent 34.5k to mine all that steel and aluminum. So I profited about 311k off materials. And I can do that without spending a single point in anything but maybe surveying. Arguably engineering, so I can make my own harvesters. And no crafting tools or stations, and no time other than that to pick up the materials. No overhead, or not much, outside of that 0.3cr per unit.
Now assume I use those materials to make swoops, and sell them for 1cr per unit. That would make in the neighborhood of, what, about 14 swoops. I sell them for 8k a pop, exactly 1cr per unit. 14 times 8k is 112k. Subtract the same 34.5k for mining those materials. Total profit: 77.5k.
77.5k for swoops versus 311k that could be had for just selling resources. Now, why wouldn't you just sell the materials to someone else, again? Who is the better businessman?
To even EQUAL the profit of selling raw materials, you'd need to sell swoops for 24k or so. And that doesn't take into account the crafting, the skill points and crafting needed to get that mastry in the first place. Overhead, basically.
Now here is where I assume that the person doing the crafting isn't more of an idiot than I already consider him to be given the above: if he's using high quality materials, he could be pulling down 5, 8 or even 10cr per unit for the sale of those raw materials. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt that he's crafting with junk materials to turn a quick profit, else that 311k turns into close to a million. So that's why I'm assuming most are doing so.
The guy selling a swoop for 80k is actually selling at 10cr per unit. If his swoop is made with quality materials, he's not gouging, unless today's material sellers are ALSO gouging.
Make sense now?
Yes, you are trapped by the 3 cr a unit thing. I am not trapped. Sounds to me like you should become a resource dealer and sell to others that will buy at that price. You can compete in that market.
In this market there are those that may choose to sell for the same or perhaps even less than then resource market sells at. That is totally up to that seller to make that choice.
But you don’t get to force us, if we choose to sell at less than we make on the resource market ( as many real world businesses also do ) to deliver to our customers a better value, we are free to do so.
I would rather have a long term customer that buys all finished products I make only from me, than top credit on a bulk market for resources. But that is just me, you are free to become a resource dealer, but you cannot force us to join what seems to us a very silly and anonymous market.
You are working for the almighty credit on every sale ( short term view, like they had in the 1940’s ) I am working for my customer, the guy that hands me the money ( today’s business view )
High quality materials have a value to them, not factoring this is into prices is like selling a ferarri for the price of a tin car toy.
GraySeven wrote:
The only idiocy I see is some people who seem to believe that higher stat materials cost more to harvest. As a craftsman, its in your best interest to make the best item you can. A 94% speeder costs no more or less than a 0% speeder to make, its only the perceived value of materials that continues to raise prices on ALL items.
I judge my business by the speed at which my bank account grows long term. If you want to say that the money I make on top of raw materials costs and overhead is not "Profit" then I would like to know where you went to school so I can make sure my kids dont go there 
Dayln wrote:Yes, you are trapped by the 3 cr a unit thing. I am not trapped. Sounds to me like you should become a resource dealer and sell to others that will buy at that price. You can compete in that market.
In this market there are those that may choose to sell for the same or perhaps even less than then resource market sells at. That is totally up to that seller to make that choice.
But you don’t get to force us, if we choose to sell at less than we make on the resource market ( as many real world businesses also do ) to deliver to our customers a better value, we are free to do so.
I would rather have a long term customer that buys all finished products I make only from me, than top credit on a bulk market for resources. But that is just me, you are free to become a resource dealer, but you cannot force us to join what seems to us a very silly and anonymous market.
You are working for the almighty credit on every sale ( short term view, like they had in the 1940’s ) I am working for my customer, the guy that hands me the money ( today’s business view )
Who is accusing whom of assuming? I have harvesters. I make my own resources. I almost never actually purchase resources because I believe them to be overprised. But I do see that some would have the need to buy resources...I mean, they SELL, someone is obviously buying them. The rush to opening FS slots means lots of materials are needed for grinding, and people are taking advantage of that.
The problem is there will always be a market for materials. The market for vehicles, at the prices people are spending now, WILL dry out before much longer. Most people will realize that the vehicle is a 'gee whiz' item that costs them more to use in the long run than it is worth and stop using them, going instead to mounts that don't degrade over time. The people that do truly value them will keep buying them, but keep in mind those people would pay you far more than they are now. Will you still sell vehicles for just over materials costs if you only sell a few a day? A few a week? I doubt you'll stay in the business.
Ah ha, you harvest you own high quality materials ( for the same extraction costs as what you call sub-par materials ) and you are compalining that we are making 500% to 1000% profit while you expect to make several thousand percent profit on each sale.
You claim you cant compete, when you can. There is no way I can help you. Try taking a business course.
Good luck
Dayln wrote:
Your stupid assumption is that they are selling at a loss, they arent. They arent buying resources at all. They are extracting them for less than 0.3 a unit and selling at huge profits.
Yes, they are selling at a loss because you are not getting money for the material's potential value, nor are they paying themselves. Instead they are settling for base minimum and thinking they are rich as kings over it. Selling at 3pu is fine for a resource dealer if you're not selling material with any spectacular stats. As a crafter there is time involved; and since shock resistance is a factor in the hit points of the vehcile you need good materials to make a good product. So sure, people selling on the cheap might make some cash in the short run, and spoil the market for those who would like to be paid for their time and materials as a consequence. But to create a sustainable business out of selling at a loss? Get real. I don't see people barking the 15k per vehicle prices in the cities anymorel if I had to guess it'sbecause the lowballers burned through resources faster than they could restock, or surrendered artisan altogether and aren't operating real businesses- after all why would they? They just devistated their own market.
So do you want to make this into a pissing contest? "I made 1 million selling for 3cpu!" well, compare that to people who sold half as many vehicles at a higher CPU- they probably made double that in less time. I'm sorry, were you saying something?
The poster has been driven out of business by businesses that were better than his, happens in real life all the time. He could not compete with a better business.
Wow, so I am selling at a loss while my bank account is growing by leaps and bounds.
Must be magic
Also, when the DEVs modify vehicles to make them harder to make (you actually agreed with me that they're too easy) will you feel the same about selling them for so little apiece? Or will you raise your prices and hope your valued customers understand?
By the way, it sounds like you're sitting on a lot of resources. Mind if I buy a large chunk of 900+ materials off of you for, say, 1cr apiece? You do? Why? Isn't that how you're selling your vehicles? Won't you still be making a profit?
The only reason you're doing this with vehicles is because it is a hot item. If it weren't, this wouldn't be so profitable in the long run. You're essentially a currently-successful day trader, mocking us because you're making your money now but don't care that things will dry up soon.
As to the contest, this isnt one for me.
I make all the money I need ( and my younger guildmates need ). There are a lot of people that make more and faster money than I do. But I dont like to work hard at it, I play SWG for fun. I prefer not ever having to hawk my wares in town, I prefer not having to advertize at all. I like it when my customers just e-mail orders to me even when I am not on-line.
I get that by being a very good value for them for all the products I sell. I know who I work for, my customers.
You are free to use whatever business model you want, other models are also sucuessful. But dont try to tell me ( or anyone else ) they are morons when you dont know what you are talking aobut.
Subcriminal wrote:
...Yes, they are selling at a loss because you are not getting money for the material's potential value, nor are they paying themselves. ...
If my resources cost me less than .25 cpu to produce, I am making a profit if I sell items for anything more than that. I can't accept the notion that people will be driven out of business, just because they aren't making as much profit as you are. Being in business is not about how much you can make in what amount of time. It's about creating a customer base that trusts and respects you, while you provide a product or service for them. The market will balance out in time. Some of us base our prices on fair market value for the long term, instead of taking advantage of the potential short term gains. Either way it's still profit.
p.s.
Stymuns, not all my comment are directed specifically at you, many people are posting here. I expect the vheicles market to dry up very quickly also, which is why I am not afraid to compete for sales now. it is certainly not the only product I sell, I am just taking advantage of the market as it is now.
"...They just devistated their own market."
Agreed, now they r with no stock and the prices will go up again.
We, crafers that ask fair prices 5-10 cpu will start our business with plenty of stock and the 2-3cpu crafers only have 2 options:
1- buy resources cos no way u can harvester fast enough to restock = u have to raise prices
2-drop master artisan, u made your litlle profit and now cant deal with the orders
Ill bet most will go for option 2
See you on my vendors next time... bye