Artisan Archive
Thread: We are being discriminated against
Page 3 of 3
Tinkergirl
Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:12 am
#27
You're back then? 
I see now that I'm just quite unused to your style of writing. I still seems to me like you're less than calm here, and obviously you've just said that you are. *shrugs* I'll just have to try to keep it in mind.
I'd hate to see what you're like when you are angry.
Saying that I'm providing an excuse for the Developers to never add any more content, is a little over the top. I'm just pointing out that the investment of time and resourses for the solutions I gave as examples, would be prohibative for the 'reward' (player retention, subscriptions, etc) that they would recieve.
I'm all for the Devs adding more content - don't doubt that for a second - but if the amount of work that it would take to get a very particular feature could be better spent creating content for all characters, or several smaller pieces of content, then I'm sure they'd take a long hard look to see if it was 'worth it'.
So, in short again -
Yes I want more content and yes the Devs will have to do work to get it in game,
but there's a difference between lots of work for a smaller payout, and less work for lots of content.
I'm not saying that the crafter classes should be ignored - see my post on a crafting revamp (which would be a LOT of work) - but that the plain truth is - adding combat content is 'easy' and over half the players can access it. Adding crafting content is more difficult - admit it - and until they can figure out an easier way of adding it (and suggestions wouldn't go amiss) it'll be lower on their priorities than content that 'almost' everyone can have a shot at.
I see now that I'm just quite unused to your style of writing. I still seems to me like you're less than calm here, and obviously you've just said that you are. *shrugs* I'll just have to try to keep it in mind.
I'd hate to see what you're like when you are angry.
Saying that I'm providing an excuse for the Developers to never add any more content, is a little over the top. I'm just pointing out that the investment of time and resourses for the solutions I gave as examples, would be prohibative for the 'reward' (player retention, subscriptions, etc) that they would recieve.
I'm all for the Devs adding more content - don't doubt that for a second - but if the amount of work that it would take to get a very particular feature could be better spent creating content for all characters, or several smaller pieces of content, then I'm sure they'd take a long hard look to see if it was 'worth it'.
So, in short again -
Yes I want more content and yes the Devs will have to do work to get it in game,
but there's a difference between lots of work for a smaller payout, and less work for lots of content.
I'm not saying that the crafter classes should be ignored - see my post on a crafting revamp (which would be a LOT of work) - but that the plain truth is - adding combat content is 'easy' and over half the players can access it. Adding crafting content is more difficult - admit it - and until they can figure out an easier way of adding it (and suggestions wouldn't go amiss) it'll be lower on their priorities than content that 'almost' everyone can have a shot at.
DaBarius
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:29 am
#28
I think crafters are not suppose to be doing these quests that require you to kill things. We are only... crafters. We are a very important part of the SWG economy because without us... there would be nothing.
Keep your chin up ... more content for all profession will soon come
... more content for all profession will soon come
CTRL_ALT
Fri Feb 04, 2005 9:38 pm
#29
Content in this game sort of sucks, all of the themeparks and quests are really repetitive...crafting missions would be fun just because there would be no combat to endure.
DarthTerobi
Mon Feb 07, 2005 6:06 pm
#30
I was thinking about this a while ago... Why are there nofactional missions that don't rely on combat or travelling huge distances?
Surely the Rebellion, for example, wouldneed droids or speeders or ships, they have to buy them from somewhere. Why not add factional crafting or entertainment/medic missions?
Beery
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:59 pm
#31
"I'd hate to see what you're like when you are angry."
Seems to me you're getting caught up on this mistakenidea that I'm angry. What exactly makes you think I'm angry? I haven't used any abusive language, and while I do use sarcasm and irony, that's hardly evidence of anger - on the contrary, those are tools of humour. The way you keep bringing up the 'anger' accusationlooks to me like a sort of ad-hominem attack. If you have a problem with my tone, it's completely your problem. Even if I was angry, what on Earth would that have to do with the validityofmy argument? Anger often produces valid and strong arguments. Like John Lydon says: "Anger is an energy".
The whole point of my post was to bring up the fact that weseem to bemissing out on some content that could be placed into the game with little effort. I'm suggesting solutions to a problem that is commonly recognised in the non-combat profession communities. Instead of discussing the issue, you are acting as if I'm attacking the game, the developers, you, and other players. Why is itthat youseem to bereacting toconstructive criticism in this defensive way?
As for adding combat content being easier than adding non-combat content, I don't buy that for a second. It is the same process. You would get quests just like the combat quests, and the base venue is already there. What's so hard about that? It's far easier than adding entire new theme parks with non-combat content (which is the alternative). My suggestion would simply make the developers' job easier while giving us added content as fast as possible.
It seems to me you're arguing againstme simply because you don't like the way I'm phrasing my argument, and that strikes me as ridiculous. If you don't like my tone, ignore it, and look at what I'm saying, not how I'm saying it.
Message Edited by Beery on 02-13-2005 11:02 PM
Dpjarrett
Mon Feb 14, 2005 4:37 pm
#32
Swagga wrote:
One of the interesting ones was the Warren, where I happened to be there at the right time, when commnados were clearing the place out. With a composite chest piece and bone helmet, I completed both quests, and got my 2 badges!
That's not bad. I got mine in a similar way... I went to the warren back when POIs were bugged so that they only spawned once per day. I just waited until I was fairly sure that someone would have cleared the warren out and then I just strolled through. I was, of course, careful to get buffs and throw on some armor just in case, but all in all I think I only had to fight one enemy.
I have to say, I quite enjoyed just strolling through the warren. On all of my previous trips I'd been in with a large group of other "semi-combatants" and we'd all had our butts handed to us pretty quickly. However, with the spawn rate broken, I was actually able to just walk through andread along with the story andfind all of the interesting computer entries. There's actually quite a bit of story in the warren, I just think that people are usually too busy trying to survive to pay much attention to it.
I think the best roleplaying award, however, has to go to the wealthy crafter who hired someone to go into the warren for him, bring out the evidence disks, and deliver themto the crafter right outside of Theed palace. Honestly, isn't that what you would do if you had no combat skills and yet you were charged with going into a facility overrun with dangerous creatures, insane lab scientists, and an AT-ST with a krayt dragon brain implanted in it?
Swagga
Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:27 am
#33
When I was on my way to glowy, I came to the same point that Jecy came to. At that time (am still now as well) I was a crafter through and through, in respect that I have no points spent on combat. Progress was gated because the hard POIs would definitely involve combat of some kind.
However I managed to get those badges in a rather roundabout way. Granted it wasnt the way it was obviously meant to be done but... a badge is a badge One of the interesting ones was the Warren, where I happened to be there at the right time, when commnados were clearing the place out. With a composite chest piece and bone helmet, I completed both quests, and got my 2 badges!
The one that was the most interesting for me is the Corvette missions that you get from factioned NPCs. The easiet to do is the destroy mission, by the way... with a full set of comp, an Imperial PSG and buffs, I ran my way through the corvette and completed the mission. And even got the Av powerplant along the way!
My point here is that it's possible to do these things even without combat, although I have to say it's silly to think that you could. Aside from the village quests (where the crafting processes borrowed on the factors of luck and the process of elimination, and was very interesting on the whole) there really isn't much to say about crafting quests in general. The whole game works on a system of flags; kill a nest, mission complete flag. Give an item to an NPC, mission complete flag. Are there existing game mechanisms that can be reworked to assist in adding new content? Would it be necessary to add to the existing mechanisms in order to achieve different goals as crafters?
As a non-combatant I wonder how I could have gotten those badges I described in other meaningful ways. The goals for both missions were clear, yet partaking in combat was not a conditon of success in either. Perhaps I could have entered the Warren and hacked a main computer console for the data I needed, crafting the appropriate equipement I'd need, perhaps an input terminal and data slicer. Or as a DE I could make 1 use droids which I'd kamikaze on troops and bully my way through on the corvette. I chose to be a pure crafter, frustrating as it is sometimes in this SWG world, and much of the content rovolves around combat because much of the themes in the game are about aggressive tendencies - betrayal, hatred, and so on.
Content that crafters could be readily involved in would be the adminstration of the NPC cities, such as opening shops, performing maintenence duties, all non-aggressive in nature, unless you count hostile takeovers
These would require Artisan skillpoints (Business, Assembly, etc.) and would be the realm of Artisans and crafting professions, making it into our own themepark. How will trade continue with Imperial embargoes? Who is responsible for the city's power generators? Who will fix broken structures (an idea on decay in NPC cities)?
The fact of the matter is, unless the developers come up with new game mechanisms with which to create missions, as crafters we're stuck with the "make this - deliver there" route. I can see how this route can be expanded upon to include more things to do for artisans, but honestly that route just bores me to death. So this is what I ask of the original poster: do you have any ideas which could make this situation better? If so, please share them, and note that there's more to the game than Jabba's
Nossi Iloni
Iloni Engineering
However I managed to get those badges in a rather roundabout way. Granted it wasnt the way it was obviously meant to be done but... a badge is a badge
One of the interesting ones was the Warren, where I happened to be there at the right time, when commnados were clearing the place out. With a composite chest piece and bone helmet, I completed both quests, and got my 2 badges!The one that was the most interesting for me is the Corvette missions that you get from factioned NPCs. The easiet to do is the destroy mission, by the way... with a full set of comp, an Imperial PSG and buffs, I ran my way through the corvette and completed the mission. And even got the Av powerplant along the way!
My point here is that it's possible to do these things even without combat, although I have to say it's silly to think that you could. Aside from the village quests (where the crafting processes borrowed on the factors of luck and the process of elimination, and was very interesting on the whole) there really isn't much to say about crafting quests in general. The whole game works on a system of flags; kill a nest, mission complete flag. Give an item to an NPC, mission complete flag. Are there existing game mechanisms that can be reworked to assist in adding new content? Would it be necessary to add to the existing mechanisms in order to achieve different goals as crafters?
As a non-combatant I wonder how I could have gotten those badges I described in other meaningful ways. The goals for both missions were clear, yet partaking in combat was not a conditon of success in either. Perhaps I could have entered the Warren and hacked a main computer console for the data I needed, crafting the appropriate equipement I'd need, perhaps an input terminal and data slicer. Or as a DE I could make 1 use droids which I'd kamikaze on troops and bully my way through on the corvette. I chose to be a pure crafter, frustrating as it is sometimes in this SWG world, and much of the content rovolves around combat because much of the themes in the game are about aggressive tendencies - betrayal, hatred, and so on.
Content that crafters could be readily involved in would be the adminstration of the NPC cities, such as opening shops, performing maintenence duties, all non-aggressive in nature, unless you count hostile takeovers
These would require Artisan skillpoints (Business, Assembly, etc.) and would be the realm of Artisans and crafting professions, making it into our own themepark. How will trade continue with Imperial embargoes? Who is responsible for the city's power generators? Who will fix broken structures (an idea on decay in NPC cities)?The fact of the matter is, unless the developers come up with new game mechanisms with which to create missions, as crafters we're stuck with the "make this - deliver there" route. I can see how this route can be expanded upon to include more things to do for artisans, but honestly that route just bores me to death. So this is what I ask of the original poster: do you have any ideas which could make this situation better? If so, please share them, and note that there's more to the game than Jabba's
Nossi Iloni
Iloni Engineering
BioEngine
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:51 am
#34
To makenon-combatants a more integral part of the Star Wars Galaxy, I have the following solutions:
Allow low-level artisans to establish some sort of in-town mall. By in-town, I am not talking about Player-Cities. There's a lot of space out there that's just begging
to be used....
Create a new type of terminal that allows player-player communication based on contracts. For example: I am a novice artisan who needs some credits for setting up a grinding session towards a higher profession, but I don't have the skill or creds to set up a merchant tent, and I don't want to be annoying by making a backpack for auction at 999,999,999 creds saying "Send me an email if you need something repaired!" I am proposing a terminal where non-combatants can post what services they can perform for other players, especially if it cannot be sold on a vendor (repair damaged armor/weapons, heal and revive players, etc).
Allow dancers/musicians the chance to become a form of "spy" instead of a commando when doing faction affiliated quests (Like jabba's themepark.) Specifically, Image designers should be able to alter themselves to complete a inflitrate and recon mission, or musicians/dancers should be able toplace devices that record messages between npcs opposing their quest-giver. Artisans should be able to disable what they can create, IE enemy droids during a faction quest, maybe even decode door locks or reprogram/disable weapons systems. Healers could be a post-battle character to heal their factioin's wounded (which would definitely be acceptable to alter the state of the GCW in that how much their side loses by after a battle.)
Make items break more often. I don't want to start an uproar about this, but if Artisans were allowed to set up repair shops inside the non-player cities similar to image designers then they would be able to help others more often, perhaps gaining prestige and faction points when they help a same-faction member. If you make combatants more reliant on non-combatants, maybe their attitude towards this game will change....
As for the theme parks, I have not done any of them yet because I too have not been a strong combatant. Right now, I have taken Combat Medic so that I can do my favorite thing (healing) and still be able to hold my own in case everyone else becomes incapped/slain. However, I do think that Artisans should be able to sneak past enemy npcs using some item that they can craft themselves (like camo kits for rangers) and do some form of reccoinassance (probably spelled that wrong, but oh well...) or rescue mission. Entertainers should be able to distract npcs from combat, even dis-aggro them with enough skill.
Sorry, gotta go. I have class in about 10 minutes lol.
"Education is the constant acceptance of our own ignorance."
BioEngine
Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:37 pm
#35
I also have another suggestion.......
I have been thinking about this for a long time, and have come to the conclusion that this game will eventually expand its territories, meaning more cities/planets/regions to allow more gamers. Or, perhaps, more servers.....
Hoping that the former is the case, I have a brilliant idea that would allow artisans of all forms to have involvement with more than the combatant PCs.
When new buildings are being created, or npc companies are being formed (if this game ever gets them) all artisans will be able to apply for work in different aspects of their creation.
For example: A new medical research facility of immense proportions requires a lot of work, and it would be much more beneficial for the players themselves to be asked to create certain items (given to them upon application as a schematic) for set statistics and amounts. After the components are finished, they will receive a reward. Perhaps credits, but a better idea could be some type of enhancing attachment or access to the facility's own resources instead of leaving to harvest or buy their own. Weaponsmiths could create defense systems for the facility, Droidsmiths could craft machinery used to continue construction past certain points or other necessary robotics, Armorsmiths could craft blast-doors (if necessary), armor for guards, or high-strength panels capable of resisting certain types of damage (fire resistance for rooms which expose materials to high degrees of heat during production). Shipwrights could craft delivery and cargo ships, and Merchants could be given quests to secure customers of great importance (NPCs, quest-based meetings).This could be seen as a form of employment, but there could also be opportunities to obtain more artisan xp or even create a new class which could only be accessed through this operation.
Perhaps positions within the company, stock certificates, prestige points, increased xp/skill points, more lots, special items, or skill bonuses could become the rewards for these participants. I would not be able to decide which would be available, but I do think that this idea of mine should be seriously considered.
Rabideko
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