Artisan Archive
Thread: A Casual Gamer Tries to be an Artisan
Zarghanon gets it too...dont be pure. why would they give you enuff points to run 3.5 trees pretty well when to master artisan you only need so many?? I am almost a master artisan, i am a novice architect almost a rifle man (at expert at current)as well. I am going to sell back some points in the long run but the xp points you need at higher levels comes so slow I wont mind waiting for the migration to take place. i am a true artisan that kills and creates. I have done the camp in the woods surveying then grind. I have soloed two missions at a time and i am having fun and that s the key. I play almost everynight and dont consider my self a power gamer. I was last week end to get architect but that was then, this is now. Try different things and let your play style dictate how and what you are doing. BTW that is something else the devs said. Enjoy and have fun its a freakin game
I agree with Holocron. How many successful businesses are composed of a single person? In order to have a successful enterprise you need a company:
Resource Gathering: Scout and Artisan hybrids
Security: Brawlers and Marksmen
The Healthplan: Medics and Entertainers
Production: Artisans
Marketing: Just about anyone though Merchants excel
Maybe you should find other casual gamers and form a company. People can't get through life alone and to get through SWG alone looks to be difficult. Artisans need other people. The whole point of making stuff is that someone will use it.
Argent D'Azure, Artisan Extraordinaire, Theed, Naboo, Flurry
milk -- that is actually the best advice. Simple .. but good advice.
I trained a player in expert marks... when i am doing it i see that qualifies for a few other skills ... surveying 2 and first aid or something. So i offer to teach them ... he says "Naw I am saving my skill points for BH".
Hmmm ...
Anyway long story short he refused to learn any other skills, even though he professed to surveying once in a while. So I explained that he could always surrender the skills later if he was near his cap. Nope.. thats silly he said I am saving for BH.
Sigh
Funniest part of the story... he had this <helper> over his head heehee
Cheers Everyone... My only thought on all of this is that I just wish I didnt have to spend so many hours running around killing Vynocks, and scavenger rats to maintain a my harvestors. It barely leaves me any time to actually craft stuff. But that being the biggest problem in my Galaxies life I can say its still pretty ok. Sure the economy stinks (if you live in the U.S. then it really feels like home), but like in RL I survive... I ahve a loyal following that comes back to me for weapons and basic armor. If I cant make it then I tell them to go somewhere else. If you really like doing this then stick to it... like the Tech industry it got flooded because everyone saw that you can make money. Once they get bored of it, or it isnt so lucrative the realartisans will stay, and things will balance out (by real I mean those players who plan on this as a galaxies career, so no one take offense to it ok.) Remember the game has only been active for two weeks, there is plenty of time to become a master weapons smith, or a droid maker... which I pan on doing... eventually. for now since the market seems artisan flooded... I will pursue that career as a splicer... or maybe a commando yeah! oh well, good luck everyone.
Plier, you're right. Interdependence is critical in a game like this. But it doesn't really seem like there's a lot of interdependence in the Artisan skill tree. Correct me if I'm wrong (I know you will), but the only thing that high-level artisans can use from low-level artisans would be resources. An excellent idea would be if low-level artisans made components for higher-level artisans. But lower level crafters are not really suitable for harvesting resources because sampling takes a ton of really boring gametime and harvesters are expensive and somewhat difficult to maintain for the casual gamer. But I do agree that further steps to create market and player interdependence from the top of the skill tree to the bottom is a great idea and would perhaps help to stem the "problem" of the boring grind.
Additional craftable items that come with vehicles and (eventually) starships may also help.
Also, I think some of the problems with overflooding of low-level items may disappear once crafters start spreading out among the levels. Right now there are a ton of characters in the low end of the skill tree. Thus an oversupply. As these players get spread out among the levels, the supply should diminish, raising prices. So there may be some natural solutions here, too.
And there's no need to blow your temper. It's a game, and you're enjoying. I'm enjoying it. Most people are enjoying it. We're just trying to make it more fun on more levels. Improvement of a good thing isn't bad, is it? Relax.Maybe a rest in a cantina would do you some good. 
And I think these discussions have brought out a lot of good ideas. I'm excited to see whether or not the devs try some of the things that come up in these boards. Some are really great ideas. Not all will work. There will always be complaints. But as long as it's always fun, I'll keep playing and keep checking on the boards. When the boards empty, then you know it's not fun anymore. Then it's time to worry.
Loligo put it well to me in an email earlier today: "I love that discussion. It's really what think is at the core of video game design. Expectations/potential meets proposed system. Are we playing the game wrong, or is the game wrong? Sweet."
Well said.
I can understand why it could be frustrating for those of you who want to just be crafters. I like crafting, but I need to dabble in a bunch of things to keep me interested (I just made master artisan, btw). Here are a couple of suggestions for you to make more money. As someone said above, watch the bazaar...look at what is NOT there, and make those Items. Last night i made 10 melee powerups, and they sold in about 20 minutes, because they were the only ones on there. Sell minerals...but only the highest quality stuff. The same with chemicals. I find high quality steel will always sell, as long as there is enough of it. Make your own markets. Check with the medics, for example, and ask them what they need. From what I have heard, most medics HATE to forage their own stuff. If you can find a few medics that will reguarly buy your stuff at a decent price, you should be all set.Someone mentioned armor, and I agree that armor is a GREAT way to xp and cash if you can sell it. You can try to make nice with some novice scouts, and make armor for them at a reduced price in exchange for bones and hides, and then keep buying from them in the future.
When you reach high levels of engeneering and domestic crafting, you are competeing with fewer players, and can charge a bit more for your wares. I agree that the bazaar is a mess, with piles of useless and cheap weapons on it (I have removed all of my weapon auctions from the bazaar, just to relieve clutter) but I think that the problem willcorrect itself--since weapons dont sell on the bazaar, at least not well, I think most people will stop selling them on the bazaar. At that point you'll be able to sell cdef weapons once again on the bazaar--that is, until the next group of new artisans show up 
Okay, just one more thing. You can always join a PA. Get the big guys with the guns to fund your crafting endeavors. Many of them would be happy to help, because eventually you will be very, very useful to them.
Again, I consider myself a more casual gamer. I usually get some time in most evenings, which might be more than some that categorize themselves as casual. If this is the first game of this type you have played (mult-player, on-line role playing game) then you have to realize they are designed for players to be in for the long haul. That's how they stay financially viable. They are also intended to be immersive games that have great depth of play (as opposed to your console Zelda).
So, you have to realize that getting to the top of a profession is going to take a lot of time. If you fight with that, you will get frustrated and you will give up. Forget about all the talk of power levelers and them being ahead of you, etc, etc. These are players who are logging tons of hours each day and us casual gamers will not catch up to them.
....and that being said, I DON"T WANT TO SEE ANY NERFS to alter that. They wanna put in the time, let them.
I played Everquest when it came out and spent a year and half playing casually and only got to level 40 (of 50 at the time). I left that game, not because of the time, but because of all the nerfing. I've also played Dark age of Camelot. I was a year to get to level 50 (the max for that game). I have never been a power leveler.
This game is the same. A casual gamer will not get to the top of the tiers in a month. The game is not designed to. Having logged a lot of time on MMORPG's you DO NOT WANT this game to be that way. If we could all get to the top of the profession easily and in a month or two, this game would be gone in 6 months.
SO, MY ADVICE FOR THE CASUAL GAMER IS: cross train in something else to allow you to experience other aspects of the game. I enjoy playing them for the interaction with others on-line. Grab a blaster and go out there and get into the intergallactic war!!! This is no place for people who don't want to take sides. I play a artisan, scout, marksman (with a little medicsprinkled on it). It is a great break from the grind to go take some rebel missions and go out and get my head blown off.Every now and then, I win. And,I learn a lot about weapons and armor by using them. Makesme a better crafter.
For those that want to log on and make 700 muzzles in one sitting... WOW, enjoy. They would have to heavily medicate me to do THAT.
Maybe the first thing I suggested about hooking up with a guild would be the best thing for you. I can't think of any reason why a guild wouldn't want a crafter to supply them with stuff.
Kaffis wrote:
See, now you've hit upon the frustrating part. For a young artisan to actually sell something in a market that's more than about 2 or 3 days old is like a lightning strike. The chances are slim. ...
Nah. You just have to figure out what to makesell. Remember - only people who start out as Artisans start out with surveying tools and general crafting tools.
Medics need flora surveying tools and chemical surveying tools if they want to harvest their own stim components. They only start with one of them, I forget which.
What's more, anyone who starts Marksman or Brawler or Entertainer who wants to branch out into any of the other three professions needs tools; those tools don't come with the Novice training. And you get usage XP when they use them from then on.
And the real advantage to selling general crafting tools and survey tools as a starting Artisan is that since condition doesn't affect how well they work, they (a) don't care much what materials they're made out of, and (b) don't need lots of experiment points to improve on.
I made quite a few thousands of credits selling a half dozen starter toolsper day at 200 credits a pop. This may be getting harder, but it's still far from impossible I think. (And likely to get better now that they've nerfed AFK macro sampling, thank the Gods.)
Oh, and let me tell you, Novice Marksman skill is your friend, and you do need to learn it, and you do need to practice with at least one weapon (preferably ranged) even if you're going to be a pacifist crafter like me. Many "non-aggressive" animals will attack you if you get close, and they think you're weak. And if you progress at all as an Artisan, you're sooner or later likely going to be running your own factories, generators, and harvesters -- all of which will require running through critter-infested areas to get to, since they have to be at least a kilometer from town.
You don't have to declare a faction. You don't have to engage in PvP. But you will need a gun, at least at first.
-Icarii Avar
-Master Artisan/Weaponsmith
-Mos Eisley, Tatooine, Corbantis
Now, as to not upset anyone, I want to point out that my views are only an opinion based on my experience within the game and I've been on-line since day one. I'm only seeking to advance the profession of artisan for ALL players whether you are a power gamer or casual, hybrid or dedicated. No one is wrong and this thread, I think, has produced some good issues. I don't think everyone should play the game exactly like me and don't expect it. I also don't think all artisans should be forced and expected to maintain hybrid professions. What is fun for one person, may not be fun for another. The premise of SWG was to be different than other MMORPG's. One premise was to force a reliance on all professions, from noobs to masters. Without going into who rely's on who, suffice to say there is an imbalance in the reliance of low-level artisans. Like I pointed out earlier; a low level medic is much needed, as well as low-level entertainers and low-level fighters. But when upper-level artisans can provided all the needs for an entire server, what's the point in attempting to become an artisan?
If a noob can log on the first time, do a few destroy/delivery missions and then buy a DH17 Carbine and USE it, something is wrong. All that is required to use a DH17 is Novice Marksman (no exp necassary), yet the only person who can craft a DH17 is a weaponsmith who has attained 33000 exp in weapons crafting and at minimum 31500 exp in general crafting. This makes the CDEF weapons all but useless because the power-gaming weaponsmiths undercut the prices of CDEF weapons with the "elite" class weapons. All one needs to use an E11 Carbine is the advanced carbine skill (I personally have the expert carbine skill), but the only crafters of an E11 is a weaponsmith who has attained expert firearms crafting requiring over 145000 weapon crafting exp! Therein lies the imbalance. Novice's are able to buy and use "elite" weapons/armor which can only be made by experts.
Thus, a novice artisan doesn't stand a chance. Expert weaponsmiths who already exist, will dominate a server because they can provide for the entire server. Novice artisians don't have any choice but to be hybrids relegated to the create/destroy/create/destroy path just to attempt advancement.
Not to say I'm not having fun as a hybrid, I'm having tons-o-fun. I'm not content to setting up a surveying macro so I can survey for hours at a time while away from the computer. That's not fun for me (not putting anyone down). I like to get out and pound ground, explore the worlds created, meet interesting species and blow them away! But low-level artisans are severely handicapped, only after 2 weeks, and I don't see how it could get much better. All that's required of the Artisan profession on a server are a few Master Artisans, a few weaponsmiths, a few armorsmiths, a few tailors and a few droid engineers.
For those of you who aren't having problems selling items, that's great, but in the future people in your situation will probably be having alot of trouble. I mean, hmmm CDEF Carbine for 250cr or a DH17 Carbine for 4000cr, I'll do a few missions and get the DH17. Maybe someone will buy your CDEF to do the missions, but then they find out how easy it was to get the DH17, pass off the CDEF to some noob and tell them how to afford a DH17. Round and Round we go.
Call me a whiner if you want, I'm still having fun in the game and could care less if you think I'm a whiner. However, a little balance would be nice, as well as a better bazaar!
Mondo
Artisan - Naritus Server