Artisan Archive
Thread: Question for Wednesday, May 5th
GrafvonSoden
Tue Apr 27, 2004 3:19 pm
#27
Resource shifts seem to take place at night after I've gone to bed. So when I get up , I dont have time to play, I have to go to work. By the time I get home from work, ALL the sweet spots for anything new that popped is filled with a million heavy harvesters , all belonging to one guy or guild mostly. So I'm not sure having an "Uber" harvester would help me much. If I cant put it down, I'll just have an uber machine in my backpack.
The wayI see it right now, if a guild has one surveyor, he can tell all the combat only templates where to place their harvesters. Thats an average of 8 harvesters per player. But if it required a cert to place it, us smaller un-guilded players would have a chance at getting our machines on a decent spot, instead of settling for the less than 50% spots. If the guild wants tons of harvesters, then the combatants are going to have to sacrifice some skill points, just asI do to place them. After all, I have to use skill points to fight. It all has to do with choices.
Now this wont remedy the problem of having to work all day before placing my machines, butI'd have a better chance of getting a decent spot closer to the larger percentages. And if not, at least all the macjhines are placed by someone who has made the same sacrifice I have, to have them there. Only seems fair to me.
Meplorium
Tue Apr 27, 2004 4:29 pm
#28
Many players, especially crafters have issues with item storage and most resort to having multiple houses to meet their storage needs. The storage, at least for craters is often resources and components in factory crates. One way that could ease the storage problem while maintaining the current house storage rules is having resources stack from the current 100k to 1000k and have factoried components come in crates of 200 - 500. Can this be done?
Guess I had to form that into a question some how.
Flynn_Nomad
Wed Apr 28, 2004 5:33 am
#29
Flynn_Nomad wrote:
OK, so when a surveyor with survey 4 drops a harvestor on an 80% concentration, he gets a bonus added to the concentration. Lets say, pushing it to 85-87%????
What do you think?
NICE I LIKE IT!!
(lol)
Kreicat
Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:43 am
#30
I like the certifications for harvesters tied to the surveying skill tree. It does make sense as others have pointed out, you use certain weapons unless you have the certification for it. Pretty much every skill in this game requires you to use some skill points to get it, why should harvesting be any different?
I don't like the idea of a higher level "uber" harvester. The footprint of the harvesters gets larger as the machines get larger. An "uber" harvester simply means that fewer people can harvest that resource on the best concentration.
I don't like the idea of a higher level "uber" harvester. The footprint of the harvesters gets larger as the machines get larger. An "uber" harvester simply means that fewer people can harvest that resource on the best concentration.
nefarious
Thu Apr 29, 2004 5:55 am
#31
Looks like they may give certs for the harvs, or atleast that is what I read into it:
Will we see the skill/certification system, which is currently only used for weapons, used for other equipment such as armor to add more diversity to the player base and their chosen equipment? (PhantomOfTheMMO)
Kirk Black: Yes, we plan on adding skill requirements on items other than weapons. We are introducing new utility droids into the game that will require certain skills to operate them as well as other items coming shortly (but I don't want to give away the secret yet!).
(from the SWG Vault Bi-Weekly Q&A)
Formica
Thu Apr 29, 2004 8:34 pm
#32
emo-kor wrote:
What is the formulia to find out power consumption raits baised on the harverster and the PE of the power resorce?
It works like this.
Anything under a PE of 500 is treated as being a PE of 500, or one unit of energy.
If a power resource has a PE over 500, it counts as more than one unit of energy, with a PE of 1000 being equal to two units of energy and scaling in between. Examples:
PE 600 = 1.2 units of energy
PE 850 = 1.7 units of energy
Etc.
When you add power to a harvester, you are adding units of energy, not units of resource. So, for example, if you have 1000 units of PE 850 resource, you have 1700 units of energy. If you typed /addp 1000, you would use up about 589 units of resource to add that 1000 units of energy to the harvester. Make sense?
Jakraima
Fri Apr 30, 2004 1:10 pm
#33
Whrlwnd13 wrote:
This is a better idea than certs for placing a harvester however it doesn't take gated resources (Those withlimited stats) that are required by Weaponsmiths (and possibly other profs) into consideration. It would be tough for a WS to find a spot for his harv when everyone w/o Survey 4 is fighting for the spot.
Also which stat does this go by? is it any stat over 900 for survey 4?
Another thing to consider is that as far as I've heard/seen, the rate at which resources shift depends on how much of it is being harvested on the server. So having a limited amount of players harvest a decent resource couldslow down the spawn frequency of a great resource. Its a double edged sword.
Good points. I'm still pretty new to the game (3rd month now I think) so I didn't know about gated resources or the details of resource shifts. However, I'm thinking that an introduction of what I posted above should result in a significant decrease in the number of people harvesting resources. That is, all the people without surveying skills will exit the resource collection market and there won't be as manyproblems with finding a place for a harvester.
There's definitely a flaw with my logic on the stat cap for a resource and which stat(s) should be considered when determining if the resource is harvestable or not. I couldn't think of a simple answer, so the best I've got right now is that it should be any stat for which the resource has a rating. It's not pretty, but like I said, I couldn'tcome up witha better way.
Lastly, if it's true that resource shifts are determined by the rate at which a resource is being harvested, then there is definitely a problem with what I posted. My suggestion assumes (and hopes for) a reduction in the number of people collecting resources. Resource shiftswould have to be dependent not on the amount being harvested but instead the number of people harvesting it? Again, I haven't got a pretty answer.
vahldahr
Fri Apr 30, 2004 3:50 pm
#34
By asking for harvesters to be certifiable you are saying you like the idea of paying around 500-700k per harvesters, 1mil for good composite armor, and around 500k for a simple T21. I my self would prefer not to mess with the economny in that way. If harvesters were to be available to only artisians then you will see a drastic change in A
the amount of resources available to the crafters B The cost of resources would jump through the roof and thier for C prices for everything on SWG outrageous.
the amount of resources available to the crafters B The cost of resources would jump through the roof and thier for C prices for everything on SWG outrageous. But if you dont mind seeing more newbies begging for money and if you dont mind paying these outlandish prices then please by all means keep asking for this to come into affect cause your only signing your own bankruptcy form. Supply and demand ladies and gentleman its in our everyday life and here on SWG. Really think about what your asking for before you continue down this path.
Giamai
Fri Apr 30, 2004 5:58 pm
#35
making harvesters usable only by artisans would do some serious damage to many crafters who have 2nd accounts.. one account is the crafter, the other has lots that can be used for harvesters. basically it damages my noncrafter by forcing me to suck up sp to keep at least novice artisan so i can place harvs. therefore i give that one a HUGE vote no.
Jakraima
Sat May 01, 2004 12:14 am
#36
There're a few problems withcerts for medium/heavy harvesters at survey 4that could prove problematic. First of all, grinding resources would be expensive to come by and they shouldn't be. The ability to gather a high quantity of resource would be limited to those with survey 4. Limiting the ability to gather a high quantity of resources isn't the answer, imo; the answer is to limit the ability to gather high quality resources.
Ithink thattheneed at thispoint, is to limit the ability for joe schmoe to go out and place 5 heavy harvesters on a resource hotspot that he heard about from a friend. That way, the people who have invested sp's in surveying won't go to a hotpsotand find it completely sucked up by harvesters owned by bounty hunters, pistoleers, pikemen, etc. At the same time, we need to prevent an economic catastrophe. If we give certs for medium/heavy harvesters to survey 4, thendecentquantities ofresources willonly be available fromasmall number of players. Thisis scarcity and this means higher cpu's. That's basic supply and demand and it couldresult in economicdisaster. However, I also think that people with survey 4 should have some kind of advantage over people who just go out and buy harvesters. To me, it doesn't make sense for a rifleman to be able to harvest the sameresources as a surveyor.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to survey 4 at this point is the ability to survey for resources successfully. Given that the wp's for high concentrations are handed out like free lemonade, you're left with no real advantage for having survey 4. I don't know if I think certs for medium and heavy harvesters is the answer (because that would make grinding materials expensive to come by), but I do think there needs to be a change here somewhere.
As for "resource collectors" being hit hard, I've got the following opinion. If you want to make your living in resource collection, you should be required to have some surveying skills. If you don't want to give up the sp's for it, then you should be pressed to find another way of making a living. Resource collection should be a surveyor only means of making a living. It just makes sense.
So, how do you resolve the issue and keep all sides happy? Well, instead of giving certs to use medium and heavy harvesters to survey 4, create certs to sample high quality resources and give those certs to survey 4. For example:
No artisan skills: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 500 or less (solves the acquisition of grinding materials problem; grinding materials will continue to be available in mass amounts for cheap).
Novice artisan: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 600 or less.
Survey 1: ...where each stat is 700 or less.
Survey 2: ...where each stat is 800 or less.
Survey 3: ...where each stat is 900 or less.
Survey 4: ...where each stat is 1000 or less.
So, you end up with a situation where the truly high quality resources are only available (for sampling) to those who have invested sp's in the surveying tree. Yes, this will make it such that the higher the quality of the resource, the harder it is to come by, but that too, just makes sense. Aren't some of the higher quality animal product resources limited to those with Scout (creature harvesting) skills? Why shouldn't surveyors get a similar advantage?
So, architects aren't threatened, because their harvesters will still function just as well. Artisans gain the advantage of being able to make a living off of something other than speederbikes, grinding materials are still easy to come by and all the sweet concentrations of high quality resources aren't gobbled up by people with a PvP template. Also, the lot restrictions will keep it honest. Surveyors could, theoretically, place harvesters for other players and thereby sample the uber resource, but that would take up lots and they would be thereby limited to a certain number of harvesters.
Furthermore, I think people with high surveying skills should gain a bonus to the concentration. Assume a 75% concentration:
Survey 2 (+5% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 79%.
Survey 3 (+10% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 83%.
Survey 4 (+15% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 86%.
That way, there really is an advantage to having surveying skills.
Allright, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I'm worn out so I end it here.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to survey 4 at this point is the ability to survey for resources successfully. Given that the wp's for high concentrations are handed out like free lemonade, you're left with no real advantage for having survey 4. I don't know if I think certs for medium and heavy harvesters is the answer (because that would make grinding materials expensive to come by), but I do think there needs to be a change here somewhere.
As for "resource collectors" being hit hard, I've got the following opinion. If you want to make your living in resource collection, you should be required to have some surveying skills. If you don't want to give up the sp's for it, then you should be pressed to find another way of making a living. Resource collection should be a surveyor only means of making a living. It just makes sense.
So, how do you resolve the issue and keep all sides happy? Well, instead of giving certs to use medium and heavy harvesters to survey 4, create certs to sample high quality resources and give those certs to survey 4. For example:
No artisan skills: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 500 or less (solves the acquisition of grinding materials problem; grinding materials will continue to be available in mass amounts for cheap).
Novice artisan: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 600 or less.
Survey 1: ...where each stat is 700 or less.
Survey 2: ...where each stat is 800 or less.
Survey 3: ...where each stat is 900 or less.
Survey 4: ...where each stat is 1000 or less.
So, you end up with a situation where the truly high quality resources are only available (for sampling) to those who have invested sp's in the surveying tree. Yes, this will make it such that the higher the quality of the resource, the harder it is to come by, but that too, just makes sense. Aren't some of the higher quality animal product resources limited to those with Scout (creature harvesting) skills? Why shouldn't surveyors get a similar advantage?
So, architects aren't threatened, because their harvesters will still function just as well. Artisans gain the advantage of being able to make a living off of something other than speederbikes, grinding materials are still easy to come by and all the sweet concentrations of high quality resources aren't gobbled up by people with a PvP template. Also, the lot restrictions will keep it honest. Surveyors could, theoretically, place harvesters for other players and thereby sample the uber resource, but that would take up lots and they would be thereby limited to a certain number of harvesters.
Furthermore, I think people with high surveying skills should gain a bonus to the concentration. Assume a 75% concentration:
Survey 2 (+5% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 79%.
Survey 3 (+10% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 83%.
Survey 4 (+15% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 86%.
That way, there really is an advantage to having surveying skills.
Allright, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I'm worn out so I end it here.
Jakraima
Sat May 01, 2004 12:15 am
#37
There're a few problems withcerts for medium/heavy harvesters at survey 4that could prove problematic. First of all, grinding resources would be expensive to come by and they shouldn't be. The ability to gather a high quantity of resource would be limited to those with survey 4. Limiting the ability to gather a high quantity of resources isn't the answer, imo; the answer is to limit the ability to gather high quality resources.
Ithink thattheneed at thispoint, is to limit the ability for joe schmoe to go out and place 5 heavy harvesters on a resource hotspot that he heard about from a friend. That way, the people who have invested sp's in surveying won't go to a hotpsotand find it completely sucked up by harvesters owned by bounty hunters, pistoleers, pikemen, etc. At the same time, we need to prevent an economic catastrophe. If we give certs for medium/heavy harvesters to survey 4, thendecentquantities ofresources willonly be available fromasmall number of players. Thisis scarcity and this means higher cpu's. That's basic supply and demand and it couldresult in economicdisaster. However, I also think that people with survey 4 should have some kind of advantage over people who just go out and buy harvesters. To me, it doesn't make sense for a rifleman to be able to harvest the sameresources as a surveyor.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to survey 4 at this point is the ability to survey for resources successfully. Given that the wp's for high concentrations are handed out like free lemonade, you're left with no real advantage for having survey 4. I don't know if I think certs for medium and heavy harvesters is the answer (because that would make grinding materials expensive to come by), but I do think there needs to be a change here somewhere.
As for "resource collectors" being hit hard, I've got the following opinion. If you want to make your living in resource collection, you should be required to have some surveying skills. If you don't want to give up the sp's for it, then you should be pressed to find another way of making a living. Resource collection should be a surveyor only means of making a living. It just makes sense.
So, how do you resolve the issue and keep all sides happy? Well, instead of giving certs to use medium and heavy harvesters to survey 4, create certs to sample high quality resources and give those certs to survey 4. For example:
No artisan skills: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 500 or less (solves the acquisition of grinding materials problem; grinding materials will continue to be available in mass amounts for cheap).
Novice artisan: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 600 or less.
Survey 1: ...where each stat is 700 or less.
Survey 2: ...where each stat is 800 or less.
Survey 3: ...where each stat is 900 or less.
Survey 4: ...where each stat is 1000 or less.
So, you end up with a situation where the truly high quality resources are only available (for sampling) to those who have invested sp's in the surveying tree. Yes, this will make it such that the higher the quality of the resource, the harder it is to come by, but that too, just makes sense. Aren't some of the higher quality animal product resources limited to those with Scout (creature harvesting) skills? Why shouldn't surveyors get a similar advantage?
So, architects aren't threatened, because their harvesters will still function just as well. Artisans gain the advantage of being able to make a living off of something other than speederbikes, grinding materials are still easy to come by and all the sweet concentrations of high quality resources aren't gobbled up by people with a PvP template. Also, the lot restrictions will keep it honest. Surveyors could, theoretically, place harvesters for other players and thereby sample the uber resource, but that would take up lots and they would be thereby limited to a certain number of harvesters.
Furthermore, I think people with high surveying skills should gain a bonus to the concentration. Assume a 75% concentration:
Survey 2 (+5% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 79%.
Survey 3 (+10% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 83%.
Survey 4 (+15% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 86%.
That way, there really is an advantage to having surveying skills.
Allright, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I'm worn out so I end it here.
As far as I can tell, the only advantage to survey 4 at this point is the ability to survey for resources successfully. Given that the wp's for high concentrations are handed out like free lemonade, you're left with no real advantage for having survey 4. I don't know if I think certs for medium and heavy harvesters is the answer (because that would make grinding materials expensive to come by), but I do think there needs to be a change here somewhere.
As for "resource collectors" being hit hard, I've got the following opinion. If you want to make your living in resource collection, you should be required to have some surveying skills. If you don't want to give up the sp's for it, then you should be pressed to find another way of making a living. Resource collection should be a surveyor only means of making a living. It just makes sense.
So, how do you resolve the issue and keep all sides happy? Well, instead of giving certs to use medium and heavy harvesters to survey 4, create certs to sample high quality resources and give those certs to survey 4. For example:
No artisan skills: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 500 or less (solves the acquisition of grinding materials problem; grinding materials will continue to be available in mass amounts for cheap).
Novice artisan: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 600 or less.
Survey 1: ...where each stat is 700 or less.
Survey 2: ...where each stat is 800 or less.
Survey 3: ...where each stat is 900 or less.
Survey 4: ...where each stat is 1000 or less.
So, you end up with a situation where the truly high quality resources are only available (for sampling) to those who have invested sp's in the surveying tree. Yes, this will make it such that the higher the quality of the resource, the harder it is to come by, but that too, just makes sense. Aren't some of the higher quality animal product resources limited to those with Scout (creature harvesting) skills? Why shouldn't surveyors get a similar advantage?
So, architects aren't threatened, because their harvesters will still function just as well. Artisans gain the advantage of being able to make a living off of something other than speederbikes, grinding materials are still easy to come by and all the sweet concentrations of high quality resources aren't gobbled up by people with a PvP template. Also, the lot restrictions will keep it honest. Surveyors could, theoretically, place harvesters for other players and thereby sample the uber resource, but that would take up lots and they would be thereby limited to a certain number of harvesters.
Furthermore, I think people with high surveying skills should gain a bonus to the concentration. Assume a 75% concentration:
Survey 2 (+5% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 79%.
Survey 3 (+10% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 83%.
Survey 4 (+15% concentration bonus): Resource concentration = 86%.
That way, there really is an advantage to having surveying skills.
Allright, I'm sure I'm missing something, but I'm worn out so I end it here.
Whrlwnd13
Sat May 01, 2004 12:46 am
#38
Jakraima wrote:
No artisan skills: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 500 or less (solves the acquisition of grinding materials problem; grinding materials will continue to be available in mass amounts for cheap).
Novice artisan: Can place any harvester. However, the only resources available for sampling are those resources where each stat is 600 or less.
Survey 1: ...where each stat is 700 or less.
Survey 2: ...where each stat is 800 or less.
Survey 3: ...where each stat is 900 or less.
Survey 4: ...where each stat is 1000 or less.
So, you end up with a situation where the truly high quality resources are only available (for sampling) to those who have invested sp's in the surveying tree. Yes, this will make it such that the higher the quality of the resource, the harder it is to come by, but that too, just makes sense. Aren't some of the higher quality animal product resources limited to those with Scout (creature harvesting) skills? Why shouldn't surveyors get a similar advantage?
This is a better idea than certs for placing a harvester however it doesn't take gated resources (Those withlimited stats) that are required by Weaponsmiths (and possibly other profs) into consideration. It would be tough for a WS to find a spot for his harv when everyone w/o Survey 4 is fighting for the spot.
Also which stat does this go by? is it any stat over 900 for survey 4?
Another thing to consider is that as far as I've heard/seen, the rate at which resources shift depends on how much of it is being harvested on the server. So having a limited amount of players harvest a decent resource couldslow down the spawn frequency of a great resource. Its a double edged sword.