Artisan Archive

Thread: Don't blame undercutters, blame the schematic

progman63
Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:43 am
#27






Shaladim wrote:

3. Vehicle customization kits are coming.


As for kits, I for one will charge for the kits and to paint vehicles, unlike droids where I will do this for free.







Despite what the promo said, the vehicle customization kits on TC are only usable by Artisans, perhaps even masters. Can't remember.


Typically, players expect crafters to perform services for free, yet they have no problem paying for an item that might do the same thing.


Services just don't sell.


I actually had some guy with the balls to walk up to me in Bestine and ask "Want to color my DZ70 for free?" Ya, sure, my time and effort isn't worth crap. But I did it anyway just to try to sell him. Then he pulled out 3 or 4 DZ70's and wanted me to color each one, MULTIPLE times, till he liked the colors. W-T-F!


I doubt the vehicle kits will be as complicated as the droid kits, using as many MA parts.


I'm wondering if they'll be just as useless - only 1 charge - and if they will provide a LASTING benefit, or if paint jobs will fade after calling the vehicles once or twice.



Seems ironic that VEHICLE customization is added to the game before DROID customization is fixed....








"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres


Bluude
Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:39 am
#28

Let them Laugh, let them yell. Just put them on ignore and move on.


You spent the skill points for master artisan and now you get to sell them for whatever will sell.


I can sell swoops for 50k at 60% quality and still get return customers and people buying me out completely.


Some people sell for 80k or 100k at lower quality and they too sell out.


I for one do not want to spend all my time checking harvestors so I just kept raising the prices until i stopped selling out in under an hour.


Sure I get a few complaints but they can never find those 15k vehicles they say are out there so they always come back as some people are charging 100k like I said.



If those PVPers want their vehicles they will have to pay the price or give up the skill points and do it themselves.


I say we all need to charge more because undercharging hurts all of us crafters. Overcharging hurts nobody because they do not have to buy our stuff.





RENDAR BLUUDE

MASTER TAILOR
MASTER RIFLEMAN
Colonel in the Imperial Army
Shaladim
Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:50 am
#29






progman63 wrote:


I doubt the vehicle kits will be as complicated as the droid kits, using as many MA parts.


I'm wondering if they'll be just as useless - only 1 charge - and if they will provide a LASTING benefit, or if paint jobs will fade after calling the vehicles once or twice.



Seems ironic that VEHICLE customization is added to the game before DROID customization is fixed....






YeahI agree about the irony of that & I complained on the TC boards. I think I would have been very tempted totell your DZ customer where to go, the main reasonI do it for free is that I think that the whole custiomisation fading thingis stupid as it is now. I would rather sell kits that anyone can use and have the customization last longer.


As for vehicles, if people want to buy cheap then that is fine by me, just don't expect me to paint it for free. If they buy from me and paid a good price then I would probabally do it for free.


As for the charges, I have got 6 charges before now on a droid kit, I hope that vehicle kits are the same!
Shaladim
Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:55 am
#30






sanfordthejunkman wrote:

No its not the people selling cheaper bikes killing the market. Its the newly createdplayer citiestrying to draw people by offering now a house and a bike. How can you compete with that.



I just think that someone who pays a lot for something is goingto appreciate it and look after it more that someone who gets it as a freebie. Once they get careless with itand itgets destroyed, they will come to you looking for a replacement. Bribing people into joining a city suggests that it's not very well run in the first place & once their new citizens get hit with taxes, the City eventually gets their investmentback.


GuyInShades
Wed Jan 28, 2004 6:59 am
#31

The market will set the price plain and simple, if you're charging too much they won't sell or you won't sell many. You might think you set the price, which in some ways you do, but you don't control the market. Pricing way above what people are on the whole prepared to pay is cutting your nose off to spite your face.


The problem is the finished product is worth less than the materials, to certain people. That's not right, value should be added to the chunks of metal we draw from the ground, not the reverse. Personally I think it's due to a pricing distortion on the resources market.


Filmchild
Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:52 pm
#32


My God. There is just no end to the lowballing newbies on this server, I can't understand why so many people are willing to sell their goods at (or below!) their baseline costs.


It's like half the people on the server think that the crafting classes shouldn't be compensated for the fact that the crafter can make something that the customer themselves can't. I swear some of these people truly believe they should only be paying for the resources not the work, and risks, that go into making anything in this game.


As for those who say that crafters should make the same kind of income as an entertainer, all I can say is **edit**. You really need to take a freakin' Econ class. We are SUPPOSED to make tons of money. It's the payoff for all the hard work (and in this game, believe me, it's work) to get to Master levels.


I don't really care how much money you have to pony up for a Guild Hall, Swoop Bike, etc. If you really want it, you WILL come up with the cash for it. Not only that, but you'll respect that object because of the amount of effort you put into to get it. The way it is now, every two bit sucker in the galaxy thinks that it's a piece of cherry pie to make vehicles in this game, and they want a slice.


I'm a Master Artisan/Architect and my swoops go for 40k,speederbikes go for 30k, landspeeders for 21k. Period. For those that think my prices are high, I wish that I could use the /StareBlankly command.


Those pricesare pretty standard across the server unless I'm selling on some backwater planet like Dant, Yavin, or Endor. In those cases, I charge a Hazard fee of 5-10k, depending on how remote of a location I'm in. One thing I've noticed on this thread though is that people are claiming "high quality" bikes go for more. While it is true that I can, and do,experiment a VERY high durability on vehicles, I would warn buyers that there is no way to determine the quality of a vehicle until you use the deed. Anyone that has a bike can tell you how quickly a low quality one will deteriorate andhow much itcan cost to fix a reallybusted up one. If someone is selling you a vehicle and claiming that it is high quality, I'd make sure I trust them, because even though the name may say "80+ DURA" you could be getting literally anything. Which is another good reason that you should be careful about buying vehicles from somebody at *N00b* prices (i.e. far below the prices listed above). Because kids, speeders are like a box of friggin chocolates...




_________________________________________________________
Ulataon Paana - Master Architect / Master Artisan / Professional BadMuthaFlucka

AHAZI :: DRUNKEN MONKEY :: AMITY, NABOO ::

And to the Emperor - Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable.
Azmodean
Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:21 pm
#33


"Just like with architechts. Idiots thought they had some inherent right to screw people or make more money than anyone else. People making vehicles have NO more right to be rich than a dancer or a tailor. Get used to it, bawl babies.



NEVER pay more than 25K for a vehicle or you're either unconcerned with money or just STUPID."


An architect makes an item that requires 64,000 resources and sells it for 450,000 (Generic PA Hall).


An armorsmith makes a suit of armor that requires 3600 resources and sells it for 400,000 (suit of 70-80% composite).


A weaponsmith makes an item that requires426 resources and sells it for 40,000 (flamethrower).


A tailor makes an item that requires400 resources and sells it for 10,000 (exotic leotard).


How is it that the architect is screwing everyone over? The armorsmith can buy as many resources as he can find at 10 credits per unit, and still makes 364,000 credits profit... approximately 101 credits per resource. The Weaponsmith can buy as many resources as he can find at 10 credits per unit, and still makes 35,740 credits profit, approximately 83 credits per unit. Even the tailor, which you listed as being fairly bad off can buy as many resources as they want at 10 credits per unit and still make 6,000 credits profit which is 15 credits per unit. Architects on the other hand... even at 450,000 credits for a generic PA hall, they cannot afford 10 credits per unit for their resources. At 10 credits per unit, they would LOSE 190,000 credits just making the PA hall. Just to break even, they'd have to find resources at 7 credits per unit or less. To make any appreciable profit off of their master level item, they'd have to mine their own resources. Of course... a tailor, weaponsmith, or armorsmith could run their harvesters for a week, and unless they're getting tons and tons of business, they won't have to run them again for quite some time. Ignoring the use of other player's lots, architects would have to run their own harvesters for two days just to make ONE PA hall. Even buying grinding resources at 3cpu... the architect only makes 258,000 credits off of a 192,000 credit investment. That's if he can find that many resources for sale without having to spend another 20,000 credits in travel.


Sure... architects can't charge extra for experimentation, because on everything except harvesters, there's nothing to experiment on. But believe me, I speak on behalf of probably 90% of the architects out there when I say that we really wish we COULD experiment on other things. That way, we'd have more than just two or three items that could bring evena third ofthe profit of the other crafting professions.


As for your "vehicles aren't worth more than 25k" statement... a swoop requires 8000 credits. Most prices for grinding resources are around 3 cpu. That means that an architect would get a whopping 1000 credit profit over just selling the resources to someone else. So yay... a 1.25 cpu profit. Where do I sign up? I mean, that 1000 credits is definitely worth spending the 77 skillpoints to become a master artisan rather than having no artisan skills at all and just dropping harvesters next to everyone elses and selling the resources off.

progman63
Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:43 pm
#34







Shaladim wrote:


Bribing people into joining a city suggests that it's not very well run in the first place & once their new citizens get hit with taxes, the City eventually gets their investmentback.





I understand the houses - here's you house let's place it.


But like you said, if you have to bribe someone to do something, how dedicated will they be?








"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres


progman63
Fri Jan 30, 2004 5:47 pm
#35






Filmchild wrote:



I'm a Master Artisan/Architect and my swoops go for 40k,speederbikes go for 30k, landspeeders for 21k. Period. For those that think my prices are high, I wish that I could use the /StareBlankly command.









/stareblankly


I think I'll go set up that emote right now.


It would come in SO handy SO many times......








"When Sony and Lucas set out, we said, How can we do this and not make another EQ? We didn't want it to be all about Luke, or combat, or lock our players into a class. So we created a system that would allow players to switch professions during the game, and there would be a lot of gameplay around making that change. If you want to go from architect to scout we've created a system to make that happen."
Julio Torres


JediSpam
Fri Jan 30, 2004 7:12 pm
#36



/salute Azmodean!

Very well put!!!




>> "NEVER pay more than 25K for a vehicle or you're either unconcerned with money or just STUPID."


Ya, ifyou're talking abouta vehicleusing crappy resources, I'd agree.


But what if you are using SR 990+ Duralloy Steel and SR 920+ Phrik Aluminum to make a 95% Durability Swoop?


Do you think you'd be smart to sell at 25K?


Since resources withhigh SRgenerally also have high CR, HR andUT,these high qualityresources can easily sell at 5cpu on the streets and perhaps the Duralloy even as high as 20cpu.


This means if I simply went out and sold the 8000 resources used to make it, I could easily make 40,000 credits if I sell at 5cpu.


Add a 10% chance of a critical failure andanother 10% chance of a non-perfect experiment and that's9600 resources used to get a 95% durability vehicle. @5cpu = 48000 credits


So why sell at 25K?



Icould only assume the poster has no idea what "experimenting" is and what high quality resources effect the final product's attributes...


LOOK AT THE FOLLOWING LINK TO SEE WHAT VEHICLE DURABILITY IS AND HOW IT EFFECTS THE HITPOINTS OF THE FINAL VEHICLE.

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=26581





Hormel Spam

Whether you're rich or poor, it's nice to have money.

DarthBukai
Fri Jan 30, 2004 9:37 pm
#37






Ninja007 wrote:

Just like with architechts. Idiots thought they had some inherent right to screw people or make more money than anyone else. People making vehicles have NO more right to be rich than a dancer or a tailor. Get used to it, bawl babies.



NEVER pay more than 25K for a vehicle or you're either unconcerned with money or just STUPID.







Amazing. Another ignorant closet marxist rears it's ugly head. Poeple have the RIGHT to make as much money as they can within normal legal restraints. That means no duping and no active deception on the part of the seller. Oh wait, what I said is too complex for a simple marxist pea-brain to comprehend! Maybe someone who makes more money than you should be forced to hand over half of it. Then again, anyone who makes less than you should have the right to take away half of yours!



Zuni Fhettisch - Future Uncertain
Ex-Master Droid Engineer/ Artisan/ Merchant - Loved his 'Droids but saw no love
Gone to Medical Academy like Mom always wanted him to - Master Medic/ Master Doc
Ex-Master Marksman, Commando, Swordsman, Brawler, TKA, Fencer
Mariki
Sat Jan 31, 2004 9:03 pm
#38

If we could craft vehicles to give different stats such as hitpoints and speed, then there would be a realistic market. As it stands now, ppl can use garbage to make one and they will both look the same on the vender. Even more unrealistic is the customize kits are ten times harder to make then the actual vehicle.. how hokey is that...



Mariki Lee, Ex Rifleman
Last day Dec 2nd
Death by NGE
- All Hope Gone
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