Artisan Archive
Thread: Don't blame undercutters, blame the schematic
Yo Progman63,
I sell my resources at 2/unit you don't like it tough. I make profit, just because some *EDIT* wants to raise the prices because he thinks his time is worth more, doesn't make me want to raise mine. why? because i can stand beside him and sell my goods faster and still make a profit, i love people like that. i don't burn myself out, and i get alot for it.
Here's the thing,
People who whine and *edit* about the economy will have some things to learn
1) you're time isnt worth as much as you arrogantly want it to be - gah i hate arrogant people.
2) it's a free market if you don't like the competition - screw you
For everyone crying like babies that "under-sellers" are screwing up the economy.
You are a sissy and don't have the metal fortitude to play in an economy
You say,
"But realize you're screwing all the SERIOUS business people in the game who rely on selling items at a REASONABLE price to keep things going."
This statement is a result of all my thoughts of people like you. You can't play the game of economics. whah! whah! his prices are lower whah! if you ran a SERIOUS business you would be able to adapt to the changes in the *edit*ing market. the price of something, reasonable to whom? A millionaire? A newbie?
So Progman63 it seems to me that you have a "VERY simplistic view of how sales, business and economy work." either that or you are too afraid to compete. so in turn i laugh at you and your foolish whining of the games economy.
I can sell my goods, can you? next to me probably not but hey "...that's earning a living." as you put it.
Below cost?, I have never sold anything for 0.3 credits a unit to create or less 
The problem is that you dont understand the difference between the stupid price you pay for materials on the marketand the actual cost of the materials. Some of us busienssmen simply cut out the middleman and deliver a much better value to our customers.
Of course my costs are somewhere under 0.5 cr per Unit too, but why I do sellvehicles instead of giving them as gift? Because I want to make money and buy me a new dress,gun or pet whenever I want and at the best quality.So Im going for the best price I can get. Working as little as possible forhigh profit. Thats economy! So I give a **** I could be profitable at 1cr per Unit and of course I sell my vehicles at 5-6cr per units. Actually people out there dont stop to thank me for selling them at this price. You people, who sell a landspeeder for less than 20k at this moment, may claim to be socialworkers for people, who didn´t find an earning till now, (which is really honourable of you), but don t tell anybody you re Mister Economy just because you made a lousy profit.
Dayln wrote:Below cost?, I have never sold anything for 0.3 credits a unit to create or less
The problem is that you dont understand the difference between the stupid price you pay for materials on the market and the actual cost of the materials. Some of us busienssmen simply cut out the middleman and deliver a much better value to our customers.
No, the problem is that *you* don't understand the difference between "actual cost" and "opportunity cost." Sure those resources might only cost YOU 0.2 cpu to mine. But they are WORTH 3-6cpu or more. If you are selling the finished product for less than the market value of the resources, you are taking a big hit on opportunity cost. Sure you are still making money but you'd make more by just selling the raw resources.
Personally I don't really care if people want to sell vehicles for cheap. I'll just keep selling my resources for a bigger profit and use that to subsidize making vehicles for my close friends.
I understand it perfectly, I see a market advantage for value that I can pass on to my customers and I take it. That happens in the real world every day. if you cant cope with you that is your problem, not mine.
I see an advantage for my customers ( and higher profits also for myself in increased sales ) and I use it. That is what business is all about.
My main goal is NOT X ammount of money from a single sale, my goal is long term customers for a wide range of finished products.I get that by delivering excelent quality at a very very competitive price.
I know exactly what I am doing against my goals.
The market got flooded with vehicles. Whole guilds collected resources with their mass amounts of heavies and just gave them away to guildies. That's what my guild did. There are a lot of people who were are master artisans who are in other professions like DE who came out of the woodwork and others who just added master artisan in to make vehicles.
At this point nearly anyone who wants a vehicle has one. People aren't going to pay 100k for something that is easily destroyed. Until most of the people stop making and trying to sell vehicles, prices will stay low.
Naldean,
Yes, you can sell raw resources for 3-6cpu, and I don't expect those who make vehicles to charge any less really. A swoop takes a total of 8000 units so at 5 cpu that would be 40K. I think that is resonable. My problem are those who want to sell their vehicles at 10-20cpu when it takes no real effort to make a vehicle compared to just mining and selling the raw resources.
Actually, it probably takes more time and work to split your resources into small chunks to place it on the bazaar for sale than it is to take those resources and make a vehicle from it. Vehicles arn't that complicated to make and hopefully, since these are just intro vehicles, later additions will be more complex and more valuable.
I don't buy the time thing for selling resources on the Bazaar.. I put up a bunch of Steel and Copper on the bazaar last night and i bet it is gone by tommorow at 2.5-3 cpu ..Which gives me a whole lot of cash in my pocket to buy more harvs, pay for energy , and maintence. I could have sold all 21k of my steel to an Arch for about 2.0 to 2.5 cpu and it would have took minutes. I have been carrying around a speeder and x34 for about 2 days now selling for 25k and 20k respectively.. If people want to undercut the prices that's fine but you can definitely make more(if that's your thing) by selling the resources you harvest. I believe the Vehicle market is saturated with people making them.. This will stop when everyone has a vehicle or when people get tired of playing master artisan(they want to go on the JEDI quest wherever)..
so I would rather carry around a bunch of vehicles then just give them away. If people want to sell for less have at it. either way I still make enough credits to cover my harvesting expenses and make a profit... In the end it doesn't really matter what the other guy is selling for as long as your happy with what your doing...
Ok, I have two points to make here.
First, selling resources. I sell my resources at 2/unit, but I sell them to another crafter who is playing as a commodities broker. He buys them cheap from me, and re-sells them for a profit. I sell them cheap to get quick money as I am not interested in putting in the time an effort to get a higher profit. He puts in the effort and risk to sell them for 4-5/unit and it is that effort and risk that is the value added (the extra 2-3/k unit).
My point is that players who want to sell resources cheap and quick, and players who want to sell for maximum profit should not be fighting each other. Work together as you each have a lot to offer the other.
Second, vehicle components. Maybe I am overly optimistic here, but I honestly don’t think the dev’s are fools. There are various components in every other complex machinery that we make. So they must have considered putting them in, and there must be a reason they are left out.
I suspect that they plan to add them later, and that when they do, it will be part of making the vehicles customizable. I can see two reasons why they have not done so yet. One, they wanted to get vehicle out as soon as possible, customizable, component-based vehicle will take a lot more development and testing. Two, they want a lot of vehicles out there to start with. Not only for testing, but to create a star wars feel to SWG (and you gotta admit, they do that well!)
If you are still not convinced, consider this: First generation vehicles cannot be re-deeded. That means when customizable (and therefore superior) vehicles come out, most first generation vehicles will be junked. The first generation vehicle therefore, will not spoil the market for the second generation vehicles when they come out.
Velisimner wrote:
Yo Progman63,
I sell my resources at 2/unit you don't like it tough. I make profit, just because some *EDIT* wants to raise the prices because he thinks his time is worth more, doesn't make me want to raise mine. why? because i can stand beside him and sell my goods faster and still make a profit, i love people like that. i don't burn myself out, and i get alot for it.
Here's the thing,
People who whine and *edit* about the economy will have some things to learn
1) you're time isnt worth as much as you arrogantly want it to be - gah i hate arrogant people.
2) it's a free market if you don't like the competition - screw you
For everyone crying like babies that "under-sellers" are screwing up the economy.
You are a sissy and don't have the metal fortitude to play in an economy
You say,
"But realize you're screwing all the SERIOUS business people in the game who rely on selling items at a REASONABLE price to keep things going."
This statement is a result of all my thoughts of people like you. You can't play the game of economics. whah! whah! his prices are lower whah! if you ran a SERIOUS business you would be able to adapt to the changes in the *edit*ing market. the price of something, reasonable to whom? A millionaire? A newbie?
So Progman63 it seems to me that you have a "VERY simplistic view of how sales, business and economy work." either that or you are too afraid to compete. so in turn i laugh at you and your foolish whining of the games economy.
I can sell my goods, can you? next to me probably not but hey "...that's earning a living." as you put it.
And by the way, I SELL JUST FINE.
I don't rip people off, but I don't give my **edit** away for free either.
IntoTheGarbage wrote:
First, selling resources. I sell my resources at 2/unit, but I sell them to another crafter who is playing as a commodities broker. He buys them cheap from me, and re-sells them for a profit. I sell them cheap to get quick money as I am not interested in putting in the time an effort to get a higher profit. He puts in the effort and risk to sell them for 4-5/unit and it is that effort and risk that is the value added (the extra 2-3/k unit).
...........
Second, vehicle components. Maybe I am overly optimistic here, but I honestly don’t think the dev’s are fools. There are various components in every other complex machinery that we make. So they must have considered putting them in, and there must be a reason they are left out.
...........
There is very little I like about how they implimented vehicles in SWG, but it is what it is. Anyway, althoughI have lowered my prices slightly now (to reflect the market), I still won't sell cheap and I don't keep any more than two of each type on my vendor.I make more money using the same resources to craft droids than I would crafting vehicles, plain and simple.
A couple of observations:
1. A lot of the cheap vehicles hawkers seem to have gone now.
2. Devs are changing datapad vehicle limits to 3 in the near future.
3. Vehicle customization kits are coming.
4. Players seemed to be unconcerned about my prices when I tell them.
As for kits, I for one will charge for the kits and to paint vehicles, unlike droids where I will do this for free.