Artisan Archive
Thread: Best Macro for Surveying!!!
Bushwa wrote:
kasuta wrote:
I use macros to survey when I'm at home, playing the game. I am never away from the keyboard more than 10 minutes. I am afraid if I leave my computer running when I'm not there, it might start a fire--it has been known to shut itself down from time to time while playing Galaxies, because my vid card heats up. How exactly is using this macro to automate surveying going to get me banned?
Only using it when you are not playing is against the TOS - as long as you are around to respond to any messages a CSR might send your way - you'd be fine.
They just don't want folks setting it going and letting it run all day while they are at work or while they are sleeping. :-) (like someone above mentionedthey did .. hehe)
Bushwa
Well I guess "technically" speaking, the TOS forbids macros that "allow" unattended play of the game, which would make this macro "technically" against the TOS. However, they can't really tell the difference online between you pressing the key and the macro pressing they key .. hehe
It's "unattended operation" part they really care about, as that costs them money, possibly enough to make your account not profitable to them.
Bushwa
From my understanding, the devs have already been asked about this issue before, and rulked that macro-ing sampling actions equate to the actions of a harvester, albiet cheaper, but more limited and so forth.
I just read through the TOS, and found no mention of being banned for "AFK Macroing" or any mention of it being against the TOS.If you can find the said paragraph, and post a link to it here, it'd be most appreciated.
Bushwa wrote:
Just keep in mind folks, that your account can be banned for doing this - at least understand the risks and consequences of your actions.
Bushwa
Where have they ever stated that using something built INTO the game could get you banned?
It's buried in the EULA at:
http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=Policies%20EULA
7. You acknowledge that you are bound by the terms and conditions of the Software License and Limited Warranty that accompanies the Game. You acknowledge and agree that you have not and will not acquire or obtain any intellectual property or other rights, including any right of exploitation, of any kind in or to the software, artwork, music, and other components included in the accompanying CD-ROM (the "Software") or the Game, including, without limitation, in any character(s), item(s), coin(s) or other material or property. You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play. You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure. You may not buy, sell or auction (or host or facilitate the ability to allow others to buy, sell or auction) any Account or any Game characters, items, credits or copyrighted material or any other intellectual property owned or controlled by us or our licensors.
Many "in game" features can be abused, take them all out - and you don't have a game ... :-)
Bushwa
Ventuviper wrote:
I have used a macro like this before and it really is almost necessary to play this game. It can take 8+ hours sometimes to not only get enough resources for crafting, but the XP for surveying. Personally I really don't want to sit at my computer all those hours to watch my guy resource so I will use a macro and go watch a little TV or work on other project whiles I macro. It would be highly unfair to make it so you cannot use a macro which is built into the game.
It has nothing to to with "fairness". It has to do with money. Players are expected to "play" for awhile then log off from the server. Industry wide the median play time per week is around 20hrs (Holo mentioned it somewhere). They use this figure when calculating thier "bandwidth cost" per account, as part of the calculation for the support costs for an account, which then goes into the calculation for the price to charge for the account.
If you only run the macro during times when you would normally be "playing" and don't leave it running during times when you wouldn't - then your bandwidth usage pattern fits within the expected cost curve, and they are making a profit on your account.
If you leave it running 24/7 (as much as possible) then your bandwidth usage pattern will exceed the expected range and they may very well be losing money on your account - which from a business perspective, "is a bad thing".
As usual with a business, it's all about the green backs (as should be expected).
Bushwa
Nesilvia wrote:
From my understanding, the devs have already been asked about this issue before, and rulked that macro-ing sampling actions equate to the actions of a harvester, albiet cheaper, but more limited and so forth.
I just read through the TOS, and found no mention of being banned for "AFK Macroing" or any mention of it being against the TOS.If you can find the said paragraph, and post a link to it here, it'd be most appreciated.
This is exactly why Harvesters and many other features were designed into the game, so you wouldn't need to stay connected to the server to get the same advantages. Harvesters do not require you to be connected to the server (0 bandwidth cost).
Staying connected to the server 24/7 (macroing or not) costs them a lot more money than you logging out when you aren't playing.
Bushwa
It is a moot point, and until they post a warning of banning for AFK sampling, they won't do it.
However, since we are proving that we are UNABLE to police ourselves, hand sampling will be Nerfed into uselessness. But you will be able to sit around in the future and talk about the good old days when it was possible to go out and mine a few hundred of something if you needed it.
Holo has said, Many times, that afk sampling was NEVER intended, and is abuse of the system. People are going to do it anyway, so enjoy hand sampling while it lasts.
Bianca Minola
BiancaMinola wrote:
It is a moot point, and until they post a warning of banning for AFK sampling, they won't do it.
However, since we are proving that we are UNABLE to police ourselves, hand sampling will be Nerfed into uselessness. But you will be able to sit around in the future and talk about the good old days when it was possible to go out and mine a few hundred of something if you needed it.
Holo has said, Many times, that afk sampling was NEVER intended, and is abuse of the system. People are going to do it anyway, so enjoy hand sampling while it lasts.
Bianca Minola
Except that's not the way Customer Service works. Only the individual being warned will get a notice and they won't post anything about it on public boards except in a very general sense.
Right now, they have a lot more pressing priorities - but it is a risk people need to be aware of. When they do finally get around to it, "someone" will be the first. I'm sure thier policy calls for a warning or three before any account gets banned - they don't want to run off "simply uninformed" customers, just the repeat offenders.
Bushwa
Bushwa:
If you look at thesection in it's entirety rather than just highlighting a sentence fragment you'll get a better understand I think.
"You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play."
This is referring to third party macro programs, reverse engineering, modifying the data stream, and running emulators. A third party macro program would be something that does completely automated crafting or hunting by analyzing the data stream and sending appropriate responses.
I'll eat my shoe if anyone gets banned for using in-game commands to do their macroing. If anything if they decide it wasn't intended they will remove the ability to do it. Much like 100% harvester experience. I don't know of anyone that got banned for standing by their harvester, do you?
UD_Delt wrote:
Bushwa:
If you look at thesection in it's entirety rather than just highlighting a sentence fragment you'll get a better understand I think.
"You may not use any third party software to modify the Software or to change game play. You may not create, facilitate, host, link to or provide any other means through which the Game may be played by others, such as through server emulators; additionally, you may not engage in matchmaking for multi-player play over unauthorized networks. You may not decrypt or modify any data transmitted between client and server; you may not use or distribute macros or other programs which would allow unattended game play."
This is referring to third party macro programs, reverse engineering, modifying the data stream, and running emulators. A third party macro program would be something that does completely automated crafting or hunting by analyzing the data stream and sending appropriate responses.
I'll eat my shoe if anyone gets banned for using in-game commands to do their macroing. If anything if they decide it wasn't intended they will remove the ability to do it. Much like 100% harvester experience. I don't know of anyone that got banned for standing by their harvester, do you?
You don't get to decide what they are "referring to" ... they do. It costs them the same extra bandwidth whether you use the internal macros or 3rd party software. They key to understanding what they mean is understanding why they restrict it.
After chastising me for highlighting a particular sentence, you went and left off the next most informative one:
You may not take any action which imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load (as determined by us) on our infrastructure.
Which is thier legalistic way of informing you that they don't care WHAT you are doing, if you are suckin' more bandwidth than THEY think is reasonable, they can cancel your account (of course they'd warn you first - to give you a chance to play more reasonably).
Bushwa
One small note, with the way sampling works now, I am sitting at my comptuter with the dang thing afk half the time anyways, WITHOUT the macro. I also think they would be doing themselves a terrible dis-service banning people for using up too much bandwidth when they have yet to keep the servers up in a constant state for any really prolonged period of time (not a rant, and I think things are getting much better, but the fact remains...). I've been playing since the begining and I think the game has made huge strides even in this short amount of time. I wouldn't sweat the small stuff though...
1. Hand sampling provides a source of resources, but no where near what any elite crafting profession needs. Harvesters are a MUST and hand sampling can simply be used to get some of the odd-ball resources required in smaller quantaties.
2. As it stands now, you can run the sampling macro 100% using the commands provided in the game. This may not be the intended use, and if that's the case I'm quite sure the Dev team will get on it as soon as is possible. Look at factories, those were not working how they were speced out, so they were fixed.
3. Get out and enjoy the game....there are a lot of interesting places to visit. Posting daily about this macroing issue is taking up valuable bandwidth as well, and frankly no body has the answer outside SOE and I say lets leave it in their hands....sampling is a necissary evil in this particular economy at least when an a crafter starts up, I give props to the Dev team for at least allowing part of the grinding process to be automated, thus easing the grind a bit. Frankly I don't mind cranking out products (which is necissary with the new factory fix) but I really don't like sitting and sampling resources for 4 hours, running around to all harvesters and then sitting down to burn through the materials in 2 hours crafting. 6 hours of time I spent in front of the computer, 2 of which were actual productive grinding, the other 4 was spent sampling, resting, sampling.....in the same spot. If it's not intended, then I expect there to be changes made, but until then, as was said in an earlier, enjoy what you have crafters!
-Snova Eclipse Galaxy
Whoa, sorry for that last point....#3 was just about 1 big run-on sentence! Hopefully you all get the point though :-)
-Snova Eclipse Galaxy