Artisan Archive

Thread: WOW! Publish 23-Major Crafting Changes in store

Ecnirp
Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:26 am
#14






Rolfie wrote:





Ecnirp wrote:

If they bring this live you can say goodbye to competition - everything will be the same. I know as a AS you already hit caps with existing resources so you probably dont see much of a hit - WS don't, our crafting caps for Damage for example are far beyond what we can reach without enhancements - so there is some fun and challenge in trying to get hold of the best resources so your weapon does a little more damage than someone elses.


If this goes live then.


Everyones armor will be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones Weapons will also be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones food will be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones vehicles will be made with 100% experimented resources...


How is that good? Where is the challenge? Fun? Competition? Work?







So how is this good you ask.


For starters no one gives a damn about the Experimentation levels ofvehicles anymore. People lose rides left and right all they want are affordable replacement right now. So that 100% swoop wasted materials.


Do you know what the end user wants? Affordable items to use. Not an overpriced Swoop, Not over priced Ruby Biel, Or an Overpriced ALR or even overpriced Armor.


They want affordable quality products.


All this does is give the new crafter a means to break into the business faster and make products that will sell.


A 14 point Artisan will still make better PUPs than a 12 pointer.


The catch is a new crafterwill be able to make a product that can compete and sell with an established crafter. Instead of the present system were a new player grinds to Master because they can't sell anything at a lower level anyhow. Then they spend months hoarding resources so one day they can start making a product that people will actually buy.


Now that senario is FUN. All it does is promote the "Good Ole Boy" club.








No it will mean new crafters will make products exactly the same as other new crafters and crafters who have been working hard at their proffession for 2 years.


14pt Artisans of course will make better products than 12pts who will make better products than 10pts, in all fairness Artisan is not the best profession to use this anology with as their resource requirements are not that intensive.


Where is the fun in me as a Weaponsmith knowing that everyone of my weapons is now the best it will ever be. That I will never get any better because all my resources now experiment to 100%. Where is the challenge?


I don't craftto make millions - I craft because I enjoy the challenge of trying to make better and better items and I like competing against other crafters. This will remove that aspect from crafting.


Being a successful crafter of whatever class should take hard work and dedication - not being able to buy any old resource that will cap you out with a buff.


You are not looking at the bigger picture - when everyone is making the same items with the same stats then Crafting in SWG will have been totally ruined. Crafting in this game has so much potential, this is a step backwards not forwards.



SWG_Perkins
Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:19 am
#15

I am a new crafter, and I think this is a terrible idea.

If I can, with my decent-but-not-great resources, compete with the best crafters on the server, then where is the fun to try and work to make better products?

Spending a long time trying to gather excellent resources is no "good ole boys" club. It's a challenge, and one I was looking forward to pursuing. (I actually enjoy the surveying, gathering, and harvesting aspects of crafting professions.)



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Ecnirp
Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:25 am
#16






SWG_Perkins wrote:

I am a new crafter, and I think this is a terrible idea.

If I can, with my decent-but-not-great resources, compete with the best crafters on the server, then where is the fun to try and work to make better products?

Spending a long time trying to gather excellent resources is no "good ole boys" club. It's a challenge, and one I was looking forward to pursuing. (I actually enjoy the surveying, gathering, and harvesting aspects of crafting professions.)






Exactly, when I started WS it was with the full knowledge that there was al ot of work ahead of me and that there were some awesome crafters out there I would need to compete with - there are still awesome crafters out there that I compete with.


I would have dumped WS a long time ago is there was no competition.


Competition is a good thing not a bad thing. It leads to better items and more competitive prices and fun for the crafters who are not blue frogs there to churn out generic item after generic item.


shadeofgrey
Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:39 am
#17

Right on!


See, these two guys are crafters. The day every item becomes generic, is the day I give up crafting and start considering saving myself money each month.


Mordreth D'Abyss <FOE>


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Roycroft
Wed Aug 24, 2005 10:49 am
#18







Ecnirp wrote:





Rolfie wrote:





Ecnirp wrote:

If they bring this live you can say goodbye to competition - everything will be the same. I know as a AS you already hit caps with existing resources so you probably dont see much of a hit - WS don't, our crafting caps for Damage for example are far beyond what we can reach without enhancements - so there is some fun and challenge in trying to get hold of the best resources so your weapon does a little more damage than someone elses.


If this goes live then.


Everyones armor will be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones Weapons will also be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones food will be made with 100% experimented resources...


Everyones vehicles will be made with 100% experimented resources...


How is that good? Where is the challenge? Fun? Competition? Work?







So how is this good you ask.


For starters no one gives a damn about the Experimentation levels ofvehicles anymore. People lose rides left and right all they want are affordable replacement right now. So that 100% swoop wasted materials.


Do you know what the end user wants? Affordable items to use. Not an overpriced Swoop, Not over priced Ruby Biel, Or an Overpriced ALR or even overpriced Armor.


They want affordable quality products.


All this does is give the new crafter a means to break into the business faster and make products that will sell.


A 14 point Artisan will still make better PUPs than a 12 pointer.


The catch is a new crafterwill be able to make a product that can compete and sell with an established crafter. Instead of the present system were a new player grinds to Master because they can't sell anything at a lower level anyhow. Then they spend months hoarding resources so one day they can start making a product that people will actually buy.


Now that senario is FUN. All it does is promote the "Good Ole Boy" club.








No it will mean new crafters will make products exactly the same as other new crafters and crafters who have been working hard at their proffession for 2 years.


14pt Artisans of course will make better products than 12pts who will make better products than 10pts, in all fairness Artisan is not the best profession to use this anology with as their resource requirements are not that intensive.


Where is the fun in me as a Weaponsmith knowing that everyone of my weapons is now the best it will ever be. That I will never get any better because all my resources now experiment to 100%. Where is the challenge?


I don't craftto make millions - I craft because I enjoy the challenge of trying to make better and better items and I like competing against other crafters. This will remove that aspect from crafting.


Being a successful crafter of whatever class should take hard work and dedication - not being able to buy any old resource that will cap you out with a buff.


You are not looking at the bigger picture - when everyone is making the same items with the same stats then Crafting in SWG will have been totally ruined. Crafting in this game has so much potential, this is a step backwards not forwards.








Anyonewho is still arguing this....Ecnirp has explained this better than I could. He is 100% accurate in this post and I'm not sure what else can be said to get you to understand the far ranging consequences to this resource buff.


Increase the duration 10x...but remove the resources buff. It's a very bad decision for many reason...one of which is long term player retention.


I came back to craft...because the crafting system *is* challenging here. They might as well give everyone a "make everything in the game with perfect stats" crafting kit if they go through with this and leave the resource buff intact.

Message Edited by Roycroft on 08-24-2005 12:50 PM



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GrayGh0st
Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:33 am
#19

I was going to talk about pride in crafting and making the very best but I won't waist my time. SOE has the code on test so it's going live in two weeks because anyone that has been in SWG knows that if it goes to test it goes live if for no other reason than to justify the dev time.


I've spent two years fighting SOE three times cancelling only to come back. I've been a master crafter in Archie/DE/ and AS over that time. I just spent 300million credits buying out two retiring WS to start new lines and a new account to support them.


I waisted my money and time over the last two years and for the last time. My next post is on Ebay.


Being the best of the best is SUPPOSE to require the resources to support that. Now some 900 quality generic spawn and a buff is just as good that the very best all time resource on any server.


What a waist of time, pride, and loving passion producing the best of the best items ultimately has been. Any start up account can match them with 900 quality resources within weeks of starting the game when this goes live.


Guess this is the patch the finally and completely ends quality in crafting that will in turn finally and completely true crafters as anything more that alts of the combat classes.


I've heard the cry before but this truely is the death of crafting in SWG just remove all crafting classes and putNPCs selling max quality products because with the this buff and hard caps on crafting results that is what this is - alts and bots using mid 900 quality resources for max cap products.


SOE have the guts to just remove the crafting classes if your going to remove any pride and/or challenge from them.


KaingPu
Wed Aug 24, 2005 11:41 am
#20






Traie wrote:






Leafthemedic wrote:

Merchant:
- Increase Merchant experience by 15%
- Modify Hiring by 20.00 points



Um, what will that do?






It allows you to hire higher levels of vendors. For instance my Mer 0444 will now be able to place the Master Level 3PO type droid which is not available to him without the master box. It opens up options you wouldn't normally be allowed (newer races for vendors et al).


Better yet it will allow non-Merchants (Artisan 0030 or 0040) to hire random NPCs instead of those awful terminals and bartender droids.


The xp bonus is idiocy though. I don't always get xp while I'm live at the vendors or online. I spend most of my time on my active alt and my Artisan is there to get my crafting and selling fix. To me its about as stupid as getting a bonus to Politician xp... doesn't really matter unless you are online when the exchange takes place.



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Roycroft
Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:15 pm
#21


I would suggest anyone who has concerns with the new entertainer resource buff to post on the testing forums here:


http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_testing&message.id=80269



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Perry42ca
Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:10 pm
#22



This is a terrible change to crafters. I have only recently begun making a pure crafting toon and most of the fun that I have is trying to locate really good resources. The CHALLENGE makes crafting fun, not instant gratification! This is not the way to fix the entertainers of the world. I'm new to this and I don't want it to be easy for crap sakes. I feel like the time I've spent putting into my crafter is wasted if this "upgrade" is going to happen. ARRRGGHHHH.


You're taking away my fun and I want to keep it.


Edit: Drase Strider - Combat Guy

Heraclitus Riverwalker - Crafting Guy

Message Edited by Perry42ca on 08-24-2005 11:14 PM

Message Edited by Perry42ca on 08-24-2005 11:15 PM



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Heraclitus Riverwalker -- Former Master Weaponsmith, Current Wallflower
Yiddo-Chimaera
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:21 am
#23

Would like to make a couple of points:


- Whilst this change has both plus and minus arguments, what it does show is that least SoE haven't forgotten that crafters exist and are trying to make things better for us.


- You aught to try being a droid engineer where experimentation is just about pointless. Since the droids were given a CL30 no matter on the quality of the components I haven't used my 12pt suit once.


Let's face it, they are going to go live with it and unless it causes horrendous problems it'll stay as is so best get used to it.






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nightlily
Thu Aug 25, 2005 4:26 am
#24

I think it will be good. Been playing post cu and right after cu. for a 3month and 2 month period. Both times like this I've been crafting.


both times I went dry of money trying to get ressources so I would be able to even make decent things. searching vendors when there wasnt a bazarr vendor search. only to find things was priced at 7cpu up to 15 cpu. and it took out the fun not being able to compete cause some people have been lucky and been around for a good spawn.





Daniela Caldelas
Talon001
Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:19 am
#25






Traie wrote:






Leafthemedic wrote:

Merchant:
- Increase Merchant experience by 15%
- Modify Hiring by 20.00 points


Um, what will that do?





for a master merchant.. i guess it lets you hire darth vader to be your vendor.



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GoesToShow
Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:28 am
#26

The whole mentality of it being more fair if a person just starting out, or is just dabbling,has the same excellent results as someone who works hard for months or years to achieve their results is part of what is wrong with the youth of today. Take that attitude out into the real world (and yes, I do understand that SWG is just a game) and the real world will devour. Why SOE is tempted to pander to the lowest common denominator, well, it must be with an eye on their bottom line.


As for this game, I do hope the devs soften the bonus a bit. I'd rather see "fairness" delivered to the crafters who have been working, are working, and will be working towards being pinnacle at their craft. But, even if they do deliver the bonuses as are currently planned your communitycrafters who are more devoted in time, organization, and marketing will still be everyone's most consistant, reliable source of quality goods. After all, a dabbler is not going to keep vendors stocked or deal with the myriad of other time-consuming issues with being a crafter in this SWG world.


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