Artisan Archive

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Thunderheart wrote:

Im sorry that Vaed isn't comfortable with speaking with me, but I will be posting a Candidacy letter a little later today.

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Sorry I've had life issues. I took a break from SWG around the hollidays, but it seems that my life and work has returned to fill that time void. I'm sorry that I can't contribute more. My work days will be 10am to 12:30am (yes... that's a 14 hour day, with a few breaks) for at least another month. Any freetime will be spent with my wife or reading about world events.


Padre: as far as your conspiracy is concerned I'm not playing or reading the forums but WodanFrekkis is keeping me aprised of any chatter that might concern me.

Since TH has started the action to replace me I'd like to apologise for my absense and confirm my intention to resign as Artisan Correspondent.

Wether or not I continue playing SWG is another matter. I have the best hope for this product, but I'm beginning to feel the serious flaws in the entire MMORPG genre. The short and sweet of it is that I'm seeing more and more how MMORPG's in general have a HUGE competitive disparity and are incredably dependant on time spent in game. This is more true for artisans than any other profession. SWG is not the only game with this problem and I haven't found one (through first or second party evaluation) that it could be minimized but never solved. Put simply: I love software, and I love games, but I'm just not hardcore. You need to be hardcore to be a good correspondent.

You know, there IS a PERSON behind Vaedross, right?

If Vaedross' post didn't kick that fact in, here, let me spell itout for you

P

E

R

S

O

N

I've seen real vultures do a neater job of swooping in than what has been portrayed in this post.

Message Edited by Khalaermol on 02-04-2004 11:13 AM

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Khalaermol wrote:

You know, there IS a PERSON behind Vaedross, right?

...

I've seen real vultures do a neater job of swooping in than what has been portrayed in this post.

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While this is true, and whatever real life problems are occuring for Vaedross are lamentable, the fact remains that we need an active Correspondent. I have seen some nasty comments directed at Vaedross, but that's pretty much par for the course with the Correspondents; you shouldn't be there if you don't have a thick skin.

I am sorry that Vaedross is having trouble of whatever sort that keeps him off the boards and out of the game. Whatever it is, I hope it is resolved quickly and peacefully- I don't think anyone here wishes Vaedross ill, despite the rants that go on at times. However, there are still a lot of people who should have- and deserve- an active Correspondent. That's not a reflection on Vaedross, it's just a simple fact.

Remember, this is a game we play here.

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PadreBook wrote:

Well, I would advise the next correspondent to understand that the Artisan profession does not exist in a vacuum. Hopefully, he/she will be able to grasp how proposed requests (particularly nerfs) will affect the whole economy of which we are a part of. Anything that would hurt the collective hurts us individually and that needs to be pointed out to those that might only read this forum and also to the developers who have shown themselves time and time again to be very far removed from anything resembling an adequate grasp of issues that truly effect crafting. When someone says 'take from them to give to us' a developer is at most going to hear 'take from them' so better to say 'give to us' first then taking later.

The Merchant profession is going to really understand the error of their ways in about a month after Publish 7 (next one is 6) because nerfing the ability to keep vendors after dropping skills while logical combined with decreased vendor storage will have severe repercussions on the SWG economy as a whole. That's a perfect example of getting the priorities out of whack, because they were more insistent on that than on adding abilities to manage third party sales which is the whole reasoning behind only Merchants having vendors. They are taking before they are adding--not a good plan for the whole.

Padre

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Heh. I'm a Master Merchant as well, and I agree there. As far as Merchants and vendors, I never saw people keeping the vendors after dropping the skill as a problem, but I was definitely in the minority.

Actually, I think one of the major reasons for the vendor item caps coming is that so many people were using vendors for item storage and causing database problems, or at least that was implied.

Anyway, as far as Artisan goes, in a broad sense I'd really like it to become more than a "Utility" profession, which is what so many folks have or keep it for. Mastering Artisan in and of itself gets you very little except the ability to make vehicles and components for other professions. Weapon powerups excluded, of course. The number and types of things Artisans can make should be increased, and Artisan should be able to be a standalone profession, not one that's always ancillary to some other crafting profession.

(edited to shorten up the quoted thread)

Message Edited by JimerLins on 02-04-2004 01:02 PM

Ifele,

Ifyou come in game please give me a shout.

Thanks,

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JimerLins wrote:

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PadreBook wrote:

Well, I would advise the next correspondent to understand that the Artisan profession does not exist in a vacuum. Hopefully, he/she will be able to grasp how proposed requests (particularly nerfs) will affect the whole economy of which we are a part of. Anything that would hurt the collective hurts us individually and that needs to be pointed out to those that might only read this forum and also to the developers who have shown themselves time and time again to be very far removed from anything resembling an adequate grasp of issues that truly effect crafting. When someone says 'take from them to give to us' a developer is at most going to hear 'take from them' so better to say 'give to us' first then taking later.

The Merchant profession is going to really understand the error of their ways in about a month after Publish 7 (next one is 6) because nerfing the ability to keep vendors after dropping skills while logical combined with decreased vendor storage will have severe repercussions on the SWG economy as a whole. That's a perfect example of getting the priorities out of whack, because they were more insistent on that than on adding abilities to manage third party sales which is the whole reasoning behind only Merchants having vendors. They are taking before they are adding--not a good plan for the whole.

Padre

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Heh. I'm a Master Merchant as well, and I agree there. As far as Merchants and vendors, I never saw people keeping the vendors after dropping the skill as a problem, but I was definitely in the minority.

Actually, I think one of the major reasons for the vendor item caps coming is that so many people were using vendors for item storage and causing database problems, or at least that was implied.

Anyway, as far as Artisan goes, in a broad sense I'd really like it to become more than a "Utility" profession, which is what so many folks have or keep it for. Mastering Artisan in and of itself gets you very little except the ability to make vehicles and components for other professions. Weapon powerups excluded, of course. The number and types of things Artisans can make should be increased, and Artisan should be able to be a standalone profession, not one that's always ancillary to some other crafting profession.

(edited to shorten up the quoted thread)

Message Edited by JimerLins on 02-04-2004 01:02 PM

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Woah, don't admit that in the Merchant forums that's like asking for a 1 star barrage (short sighted fools)! Yeah, I see it as a real concern for Artisans, because of the large variety of items we have to stock to be a full service Artisan vendor and hence competitive. For the random pro-Merchant nerf troller let me list some of them as a Master Artisan:
3 types of vehicles
6 types of Master level components in crates used by other professions
10+ types of powerups (more like 12-13), which only come in crates of 10, when 100 would be much much more useful (can we ask for that?)
6 types of personal harvestors
5 types of crafting tools
3 types of repair tools
7 types of survey tools
droid batteries
bofa treats
jawa beer
basic clothes items
travel packs
crates of cdefs (grinding slicing)
and that's only if we don't take novice scout to sell camps, novice ws for wuk's, or novice as for auk's, all good sellers

Padre

Pax: you bet

Everyone else: If you're wondering, the way I got this job was by telling TH about Bicana's absence and including my "resume" of sorts. Since I'm taking 5 at work, I'm going to put up a Artisan Applications thread... put up your qualifications. Maybe that will help TH sort through everyone who's interested.

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PadreBook wrote:

Woah, don't admit that in the Merchant forums that's like asking for a 1 star barrage (short sighted fools)! Yeah, I see it as a real concern for Artisans, because of the large variety of items we have to stock to be a full service Artisan vendor and hence competitive. For the random pro-Merchant nerf troller let me list some of them as a Master Artisan:
3 types of vehicles
6 types of Master level components in crates used by other professions
10+ types of powerups (more like 12-13), which only come in crates of 10, when 100 would be much much more useful (can we ask for that?)
6 types of personal harvestors
5 types of crafting tools
3 types of repair tools
7 types of survey tools
droid batteries
bofa treats
jawa beer
basic clothes items
travel packs
crates of cdefs (grinding slicing)
and that's only if we don't take novice scout to sell camps, novice ws for wuk's, or novice as for auk's, all good sellers

Padre

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Well, I hesitate to call anyone else a fool because they don't agree with me- however, my shorts are still smoking from some of the flames I got when this came up. I'm never one to refrain from posting what I think, though. *shrug*

I'm a Master Merchant and I don't know how I'm going to keep my vendors stocked, but I'm trying to keep my cool until I see what the actual effects are. My 4 vendors must have at least 500 items on them right now total, and I'll be adding another two or three thousand over the next few days- I'm low on stock because I spent three days moving.

So yeah, I'm concerned about it, but not much to be done about it now except grit my teeth and see how it works out. Making it harder for Artisans to sell stuff in quanitty isn't a good thing, though.

As a long-time Master Artisan and 4/4/4/4 Merchant (arrgh -- stoopid App. XP! ), I'm glad to see this Artisan/Merchantthread. It's good for all ofus to think about how these professions interact and how they affect other professions and gameplay (and vice-versa).

However, I can see that I've got some work to do here -- I don't fully agree with a number of the opinions expressed in this thread.

I do agree on a number of points. For example, I'm also concerned about how capping the number of items in vendors will affect the game. It's not going to hit me as hard as others since I've nearly mastered Merchant, but it will mean that others who just want one vendor (possibly because they prefer tospend theirskill points on crafting rather than sales skills)will be very limited in the number of items they can sell.

Furthermore, the average amount of money that Merchants pay in maintenance will go up, since not every Merchant uses the maximum number of vendors granted by their skill level, but they'll be more likely to need to do so when the item caps kick in. The big-time ctrafter/merchants won't care since they make more than enough to cover the increased maintenance fees, but the smaller operators will likely feel the bite. (This may not be entirely a Bad Thing for the entire game, since with the high mission payouts more money sinks need to be found. It just happens to hit Merchants hardest.)

Message Edited by Flatfingers on 02-04-2004 06:30 PM

Message Edited by Flatfingers on 02-04-2004 06:35 PM

So, it sounds like the Merchant crowd got their wish? I haven't been following the forums enough, did Padre just say that Publish 7 will have the anti-Merchant nerf?

If so, that's disappointing. As logical as their argument may sound - dropping Merchant should disable vendors - the game as its written is working as intended since SOE wrote the skill benefits as placing, not maintaining vendors. Oh well, the 'make us better by nerfing everyone else' strategy seems to work for a few select professions it seems.

Ifele,

Personally never had a problem with ya. In fact, our exchanges were always pleasant. I'm glad that your life is properly prioritized,sympathetic that you've got RL things to resolve and I hope you get back to having some enjoyable play time.

Until then, be well.

Niix Starkyller [Intrepid Resident and General Nuisance]

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AudioOrgana wrote:

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PadreBook wrote:
I certainly wouldn't take the job. I'll let those folks that are fixated on afk sampling nerfage apply.

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Anyone that regularly AFK samples at this time is just wasting computer cycles on their machine.

Except for grinding up the Survey Tree, I can't imagine anyone but the most uneducated noob doing it for the resources.

We now have personal harvesters with a BER of 4 - which cost a measley 750cr and 600 units of power a day - there is just no reason to. Just one of those can pull up more than an afker can, and doesn't require such an archaic method and monopoly of your PC.

Be happy that people afk sample (if anyone still does after they hit master) - they certainly can't be any competition for real crafters.

There are lots more important issues to Artisans - worrying about someone who lifts such a tiny amount of resources compared to a real crafter is of little concern.

Audio

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Yes now that's true and even more reasons that we should have NEVER spent time trying to make life more difficult for newer/lower level players, because that just does not help the Artisan profession or elite branches of said. But what about when the European servers opened or when the next new server opens, well guess what it's going to be a lot more difficult to get started individually as an Artisan and collectively as a player based crafting derived economy thanks to the short-sighted selfish views of some of the more vocal early members of the Artisan community. Members, who weren't affected by these long term nerfs/handicaps that they asked for, nay demanded to be implemented. Way to go!

Padre