Artisan Archive
Thread: The danger of AFK macroing.
I tend to think that the developers saw this coming. They'd have to be "out-to-lunch" not to. My bet is a few have some pretty "golden" macros set up on their testing accounts that we haven't even thought of yet.
My objection is to the cries for nerfing, banning, suspensions, and the "bandwidth police". Having played most of the MMORPG's on the market, my experience has been that more than half of the character nerfs end up hurting the game and don't take it forward. If they nerf sampling further it hurts the crafters across the board. If they play games with afk, then others will be penalized.
I don't buy the if you are on your account for too long SOE starts losing money on you yadayadayada. I'll use scouts as an example because my character is cross trained as one. When I am out on a long scouting mission gatheringhide and bone, I have to set up a camp to heal up. The process is a LONG one (sitting in front of the fire that is). I can't craft while I am there (other than a few medicines) because I am not at a crafting terminal (can't use experimentation). So I set up camp and go about some other business. Mess with auto AFK kicks and you penalize scouts. If SOE wanted us logging on for an hour and then off, then they wouldn't have putsomething like scout campsINTO THE DESIGN.
So, I plead with the developers: PLEASE USE THE CARROT AND NOT THE STICK. The reason people macro is because of the inordinate time and investment in harvestors. PLEASE DON'T NERF SAMPLING OR MESS WITH THE AFK BOOT. Rather than taking things backwards, take them forward:
1) Establish a mining tree for players that encourages a more robust and affordable resource marketplace.
2) Look at the many discussions regarding changes in resource and power harvestors and fixes. If setting up, maintaining and re-deeding harvestors was more affordable and easy, more people would migrate there over macroing.
Hang in there Paraone. Don't let it get your discouraged. It's players that are caught in some of the frustrations of harvesting like yourself, that give me reason to keep chanting NO NERFS, NO NERFS, NO NERFS.
Look through my post above on getting started with harvestors. Maybe there are some tips that might help. Mining harvestors don't require as much wind harvestors (credit-wise), but need the power you get from your wind generator.
Under "Operate Machinery" you select what it is you mine and then select to turn the unit on and off. I've felt you pain. Here's my funny story. Went to reclaim my first set of harvested and reclaimed without first emptying the hoppers. Ouch. Lost a few resources that day.
As you are moving up the engineering tree, don't forget powerups as a source of income. Its not a whole lot, but it can help. It sounds like you are very averse to missions, but you really can knock off 3-4K in pretty short order.
Good luck and good crafting!
Paraone wrote:
Originally I was going to get harvesters...but they were too expensive...so now that I can make a wind gen I did and i set it up...and didn't even turn it on...when I came back the following evening...it said it would require 3000credits to make it work...well i only have about 7000 at a time...and since I need the resources to craft, i won't sell them...so what does that mean?
It means the whole game pretty much revolves around artisan...we make it all...and without us everyone else is outta luck. But they will nerf it enough to make no one want to be an artisan. They will nerf the sampling so much that no one but established artisan's will be able to do it...i can't afford 3000 credits a day for 1 gen...jeez how much does that plus 5 miners costs? it is mind boggling.
You just haven't learned how they work yet. If you put the maintenance cash in them right away so they stay at 100% condition - it is much cheaper than letting them decay and having to pay "repair" costs.
Personal Wind Generator: costs 1440 credits per day to maintain. On a 50% spot, will put out around 2000 units of energy per day.
Other Personal Harvesters: cost 720 credits and use 600 power per day.
For Personal Harvesters, if you miss a day and have high repair costs, just empty it, destroy it and make a new one - it's a lot cheaper than repairing.
To get started, set up your Wind Generator on a decent spot, pay 2 days worth (2880) then go play. The next day get your output (2k energy) and sell half of it on the bazaar - 1k for 3k creditsminimum. If you have the credits to set up your mineral harvester(s) go ahead and do that with the energy you didn't sell.
Keep cycling like that, selling some or all of what you pull up for a couple days until you have funded all the harvesters on the materials you need.It takes a few days to get fully "self-sustaining" but then you only need to sell a small portion to maintain your harvesters and you can use the rest for crafting.
Bushwa
yeah when I saw that 3000credit thing i said "destroy" hahaha...
now...is there a way to make harvesters and gen's self sufficient...i mean I realize i will have to go up and maintain it or whatever...but there isn't a way to live as a hermit and craft? (well i mean i know i can with macro'ing...but I know it will be nerfed and i need an alternative)
Also...are there any PA's on say Ahazi (i know this isn't the ahazi forum) that are only crafters that help each other out?
I have been considering looking into setting up harvesters today...but for now I don't have master artisan so I can't make the ones i need only win gen and min right now I THINK...
but I will go through your guys' posts when I get home and see if I can swing it...I would much rather have a harvester working for me then my character having a chance of getting mob'ed...
but yes I don't like missions...I don't like being sent to kill someone...i am not a bounty hunter or a merc and I don't plan on living like one swg...and delivery missions...pffft...spend time running from space port to spaceport when i should be crafting 
but thanks for the input guys...what servers you on? (if it says in your sig I will see it after I post this so no need to reply)
A Player Association is also a great idea. I belong to one and it has helped a lot. Now that some people have made Master Architect some PA's are showing up and recruitment is beginning. Its a great support group and you can get a lot of your questions answered. Also, if you need help on something you have guildees to pitch in.
If someone needs some Aluminum all they need do is ask and someone has some. If someone has a harvestor they don't need anymore they can ask if someone needs something and transfer security rights.
Start asking around about PA's.
Limiting the macro commands by numbers wont work. There is a flaw with the /sample process as well. You can start a /sample and then /sit right away and /stand at anytime without having to wait to /sample again. Then never again have to worry about loosing HAM stats making you a perfect Sampling machine, far more efficient than harvesters, especially if left to run during times normally not played.
I’m not a crafter beside for personal use ( stim packs). I have a macro setup to run this task, but only when I’m in front of the computer (mainly cause I’m on Dial-up).
Toolbar setup with double rows showing all 24 buttons. Macro setup on Toolbar number 23 ( the last one since they go from 00 to 23 )
Command structure is as follows.
/stand; /sample; /sit; /pause 15; /ui action toolbarSlot23
the /pause 15 is enough to get in two /samples while medding back to full HAM stats AND not locking your computer up doing macro loop at an ungodly rate.. The /ui action toolbarSlot23 is the loop, basically the same as clicking it over and over and the key to the whole process. To stop the macro, you have to describe the icon from the tool bar. Then re-add it in the same location from the CTRL-A macro section when needed.
Ok, with this said, I haven’t seen anything from the devs saying this is an exploit, it might corrected in the future and it doesn’t matter to me either way. But nonetheless, it a command that you can run in game right now.
Later tonight or tomorrow, I will list and compile a full line of macro-coded samples; this list most likely upset a few if not several individuals. But always remember, it’s a game not a way of life.
Krypon of Lowca
Always be happy, just never be satisfied.
They should have never included macros if they didn't want us to use them. What use do they have other than to automate functions?
They could have easily limited the commands that could be used in a macro, but they didn't.
It cracks me up that they state in the EULA that they don't want the use of automation programs to allow macroing and such but then they place a system in game that allows us to do just that. If they want people to be able to make simple commands and such they can easily limit the amount of lines a macro can use. That will stop the never ending macros and still keep some basic functionality in.
They keep stating what wasn't intended with the macro ability but I never hear what they had intended it for.
Celera wrote:
First, I am sick of this discussion, but couldn't resist responding once you cautioned "move along".
Second, it is disingenuousto complain about bandwidth considerations on SOE servers while clogging these boards with the same rants all the time. The first eleven thousand times you said you didn't like AFK sampling got the point across.I think you might need to move along to a new topic. It's difficult to figure out what you hope to accomplish. You admit that the community will not self-police and that the devs are likely to even out the harvesters so that they are the only viable way to sample. Does the community need to keep hearing this from you? Were you orphaned by macro samplers? Why the obsessive personal interest?
Third,do you play on dial-up or otherwise cannot stay connected for long periods of time? That might explain why you consider this an exploit - because you can't do it.
Fourth, and to respond directly to your points, you are free to infer whatever you'd like from the multiple, out of context quotes you reference below. You are probably on-target in your assessment of their thoughts, but unless and until the devs get involved directly in curtailing this behavior, it's still just speculation. It's a legitimate use of the tools which have been provided to players. SOE can change the toolset if they like, and people will adjust to it.
Until then, give it a rest.
Feel free to report me for disagreeing with your opinion in a public forum. That's certainly a sign of good sportsmanship.
What post were you responding to?
She makes no argument about bandwidth, that was Holo. FYI the boards are not run on the game servers.
As far as 'out of context quotes'she gives complete sentences, and then cites the source. I checked the sources, and nothing was out of context.
Then you say she was on-target with her assessment, that is the only thing you say that I agree with.
What exactly is your point?
Just my two pence worth.
I'll type slowly so you can follow along, ksblingx2.
1) What post were you responding to?
Bianca's original post. These boards do not make that clear, I know. The reference to "move along" should have given it away.
2) She makes no argument about bandwidth, that was Holo. FYI the boards are not run on the game servers.
Repeatinga statement from Holo is an endorsement of the position. She's made the same reference in other threads. She is clearly using it to support her position. And, duh, we know the boards are on different servers. You seem to have missed the irony in her spamming us with this nonsense at every turn while complaining about bandwidth issues.
3) As far as 'out of context quotes'she gives complete sentences, and then cites the source. I checked the sources, and nothing was out of context.
Complete sentences do not provide sufficient context. I'm sure you're right about the references, although I wasn't going to waste any time verifying her quotations. I'm also not saying that I disagree with either her interpretations or her anti-macro position. I'm simply trying to have her dismount the high horse and stop badgering everyone with this crusade of hers.
4) Then you say she was on-target with her assessment, that is the only thing you say that I agree with.
Wow, you've entirely missed the point of the message. I never said she was wrong - I said she was annoying.
5) What exactly is your point?"
See #4.
I tried macroing once.......
then the server spawned some nasties near me and they killed me while I was away.
And of coarse... I died just minutes after I walked away from the keyboard, so it was a good hour before I realized what happened.