Artisan Archive
Thread: Resource Pricing
EdOWar
Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:21 pm
#14
The market determines the prices of uber resources. If someone is willing to pay 500 cpu for a resource, it's only because they know they'll make their money back, and then some, in the finished product.
Same goes for loot. Combat characters don't determine the price of loot, the market does. Most loot I see gets auctioned, and it's the people buying it that set the price. If they're willing to pay 250K for a schematic, they must figure it's worth it.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
mistereous1
Wed Jan 19, 2005 7:08 pm
#15
34234235 wrote:
If someone is willing to pay 500 cpu for a resource, it's only because they know they'll make their money back, and then some, in the finished product.
Unfortunately if they pay 500 cpu and intend to recoup investment and make profit just goes to show that there is too many creds floating around.
No, that just means that the incremental value of a credit is closer to the yen than the dollar. What difference does it make if I make a ten percent profit margin on 50 credits, 500 credits, or 5,000 credits. It's still a ten percent profit margin. The problem is most of us are americans and our sense of how much more a single unit of currency should be worth is skewed by the dollar and we were fortunate that the base currency for international businessis the dollar, that means we've never had to learn how another currency works.
HardwiredXMan
Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:46 pm
#16
This is not just a resource problem, it goes for all rare and high priced items in the game.
It's the fact that there is always someone, somewhere who wants something more than you do.......the sole determining factor on the final selling price of any item is "How big the bank account of the person is" and "how bad to you want it".
So the real problem is the fact that any person can go out and make 100 million credits in a week if they soley dedicate their playing time to making money. If 5 players on a server do this and decide they want all or most of the rare stuff in the game (corner the market to either just be rich, or to have what noone else has).....they effectively control the economy.....over a long period of time they drive prices up, they set the standard for prices on certain things. Since they have the mentality that they will just out bid anyone because they really really want something, the sellers start gettin hip to this and say to themselves...."hey, I got 5 john doe's out there that's willing to pay me millions for this item, so that's what i'll set the bid or price at"......then when the other players on the server see this happening, they figure out a way to get enough money to afford that item (if they are dedicated enough) while those same 5 john doe's continue to stay rich along with having very rare items that everyone wants. Once the other playersget thier foot in the door, they start doing the exact same thing as those first 5 players.
Now clearly, there should be no limit to how much a person can make....but the rate at which a person can make millions is the problem for such a bad economy and is what needs to be tweaked....devs have effectively done that somewhat...but they stillneed to do more to take themoney out of the game as fast as it came into the game.
For example,at one timejanta missions could pay nearly 50k credits per missionwith a smuggler slice (by the way, other types of mission barely reach 5k missions). If a person decides to do nothing but janta missions everyday for a week and 1 or 2 buff sessions a day, for a mission that can be solo'd in less than 15 - 20 seconds.....you will have a very rich person at the end of that week.......this is where the economy started going wrong......and I blame this on a poorly designed combat system for which we are getting a revamp......cause let's face it......90% of the money in the game came from destroy missions, that's why the devs nerfed them.
so at the end of, say a 6 month period, you effectively have a person who can have hundreds of millions of credits....once he tells all his friends of this, they do the same. Now you have a bigger group of rich players. Once they sink their paws into the auctions going on and they see an uber +25 attachment and the bids are going something like this:
20k....50k.....100k.....250k.....so on and so on.
Then the wealthy person jumps in and bid's 7 million. Well, noone can beat that and after this happens enough, other players feel they need to compete by acquiring that much money.....so the hunt begins.
In the resource department, it's worse because it all boils down to people being lazy for the most part.....the simple fact is, unlike rare loots,every resource in the game can be acquired by any person or profession in the game....all you have to do is find out what the best resources are and drop some harvesters....but the down side to this is it can take hours to do.....so casual players figure it's easier to buy them instead of get their own and when a crafter needs so much in such little time (the resources don't stay around long enough for casual players), they simply don't have the real life time to get what they need.......those people who harvest these resource know this and so they exploit this fact saying to themselves "my prices are based on my time and effort for acquiring a resource and making it conveinant for the buyer to buy them, so here's my price". Well, there are lots of casual players out there who need the same thing you do.....or they are just greedy.......so let the bidding begin.
In the end though, it takes a server wide boycott of a particular item for the price to drop to something reasonable...because as long as their are 1 or 2 players who are not willing to stop buying resources at a high price, they just means theres more resources for them to get while others are protesting the prices.....you then effectively leave yourself out of a much needed item for your profession.....so while your boycotting, you have no resources to make your items while those that do not boycott have all they need and making items and taking all of your potential business for themselves.....becauseother professionsstill need to buy crafted items....if you don't make them, someone will.
This is why a boycott doesn't work if every single person doesn't go along with it......it reminds me back when rosa parks got arrested for not sitting in the back of the bus.....all the blacks decided they will not ride the bus anymore until segregation was abolished. It went on for over a year and the only reason it worked was because the whole communtiy went along with it and found alternative ways of getting to school and work. THe buslines just couldn't afford to continue running with more than half their customers not using their services....so you had empty buses running around town burning gas for nothing.
So if you cannot get this kind of effort from everyone in the game, expect to continue to compete with high priced items loots and resources alike.
The other alternative is to sacrifice some of your real life time to get your own loots and resources......unfortunately, many of us have a life that doesn't revolve around SWG. THerefore we simply have to live with the high prices of the things we need......Personally, everything I have from loots to resources, I went and got on my own.....I refuse to pay 100 cpu for anything....I refuse to pay 5 million for a force crystal....I refuse to pay for krayt tissues, acklay bones, spider venom...etc. I go and get my own....if it takes me 6 months of casual play, then 6 months down the line I still have my own money and the loots and resources I need.....that's the kind of patience I have.....I see no rush in getting anything in this game as fast as possible because everything will always come back around and i'll get my chance to get my hand in the pot.
Flatfingers
Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:29 pm
#17
It turns out that there is asimple and highly effectiveway to deal with price imbalances: information.
Suppose you really wanted a yellow thraggle prawl, but you also wanted to find one ata competitive price. You visit the nearest prawl shop, and find that the owner is asking 53K for yellow thraggle prawls.
If it's hard to do comparison shopping (as it is now), you might go ahead and buy that 53K prawl... and then get annoyed when you visit the prawl shop one town over and immediately find a yellow thraggle prawl for 14K.
But what if pricing information was readily available? Instead of taking the first price you found (and possibly paying way more than the average asking price), what if you could pay a small fee to search all the vendors on your current planet, or (for a more significant fee) search all the vendors on your server for the item you want?
Easy access to price information drives down prices by insuring price competition among sellers. When you know that buyers can easily find out if your prices are higher than average, you're motivated to keep your prices low or risk not making sales.
Naturally, if buyers are lazy and don't want to take the time to search for good prices, then priceswill remain high. But why shouldn't laziness be expensive?
Soinstead oftaking some heavy-handed approach (like price controls)that, while intended to reduce prices, has other undesirable side effects, why not work with human nature instead of fighting it?Give buyers the tools they need to find the best deals, and prices will come down naturally because sellers will competefor sales.
--Flatfingers
[edited to correct some spelling goofs]
Message Edited by Flatfingers on 01-20-2005 05:29 PM
oracomm2
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:43 am
#18
well said 5 stars for you
Flatfingers wrote:
It turns out that there is asimple and highly effectiveway to deal with price imbalances: information.
Suppose you really wanted a yellow thraggle prawl, but you also wanted to find one a competitive price. You visit the nearest prawl shop, and find that the owner is asking 53K for yellow thraggle prawls.
If it's hard to do comparison shopping (as it is now), you might go ahead and buy that 53K prawl... and then get annoyed when you visit the prawl shop one town over and immediately find a yellow thraggle prawl for 14K.
But what if pricing information was readily available? Instead of taking the first price you found (and possibly paying way more than the average asking price), what if you could pay a small fee to search all the vendors on your current planet, or (for a more significant fee) search all the vendors on your server for the item you want?
Easy access to price information drives down prices by insuring price competition amond sellers. When you know that buyers can easily find out if your prices are higher than average, you're motivated to keep your prices low... or you risk not making sales.
Naturally, if buyers are lazy and don't want to take the time to search for good prices, then prices will remain high. But why shouldn't laziness be expensive?
Soinstead oftaking some heavy-handed approach (like price controls)that, while intended to reduce prices, has other undesirable side effects, why not work with human nature instead of fighting it?Give buyers the tools they need to find the best deals, and prices will come down naturally because sellers will competefor sales.
--Flatfingers
Baccarat
Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:50 am
#19
Flatfinger's argument is a good explanation why crafters avoid posting their prices in the trade forums. This leads to price wars, and all crafters suffer. But it cuts both ways, when crafters need an organic resource badly, for example, they compete to offer the highest price, and they return their money to the community (I spent 48 mill on wooly hide at one point, for example).
mistereous1
Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:56 am
#20
I actually think things are fine as they are. But I'm guessing the economy on eclipse is more seasoned than any of the other servers. Things are pretty well standard. Uber rare resource spawns, so I jump on it and plop down 8 harvesters on it...great for my size, but hey who knows when the next one will come along, so I offer out a resource contract. 4 cpu is the standard. if there is a lot of competition with the other smith's then it goes to 5 maybe 6. Once the shift is over price goes to 7 or 8. From there the rarity of the resource ranges between 12 and up depending on it's importance and how much better it is than the next best resource. When I'm forced to Spam, I always include my prices...one reason I prefer spamming to a barker droid. Even in the eclipse forum, when another smith advertise's their suits, they also include all stats and prices...most even have an inventory number.
Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:23 am
#21
To me, any price fixing is both a derailment of my game play and an admission that the economy is not player driven.
Resources are worth what the market will bear -- the same as any item in SWG. My feelings are that once you instigate price controls you have effectively removed the economy from the game.
Fivo Asia
MadeEvil
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:39 am
#22
Instead of complaining why things cost so much maybe we should work out ways to making money more rare.
examples
Lower mission payouts.
Raise harvester maintance
find out who are the richest and why and try to balance it somewhat.
Not saying no one can not get rich just make it alittle more of a challege.
examples
Lower mission payouts.
Raise harvester maintance
find out who are the richest and why and try to balance it somewhat.
Not saying no one can not get rich just make it alittle more of a challege.
Master_Mavric
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:58 am
#23
This sorta fits with what you guys are talking about here. I think your talking more in organic though. I operate a Master Ranger of my server. I contract myself out for a spicific resource type at a set price. Some times the contracts are open ended, sometimes its for a limited amount. I am on several mailing lists. I get a email from Joe Chief saying I want X Meat with bla bla bla stats. Ill pay 100 cpu, 110 cpu if in stacks bigger then 5k (this is actuly a very high number, most of my contarcts are 25-50 cpu). So I take off for coronet (on my server this is the buff capitol of the galaxy) and then to the planet that spawned the meat and get started. I typicaly have about 15k buff expence and 15k travel. Once a month I get new armor (about 225k and weapons 30-40k depending on what needs replaceing.) I run one buff session a day. In that three hours I can harvest as much a 10k unit sometimes more. Making 1 mill. I do this about once maybe twice a week whenI need money (this is a alt toon, my main is a tailor that is better at looseing money then makeing it.) So I gross about 4 mill a month and have about 400k in operating expences. Keep in mind this is high side but it happens. I dont need to replace my guns or armor as much asI do, butI like supporting crafters. I also could run 2 or more buff sessions a day and gross 30-90 mill a month butI dont need that much so why waste my time?Im getting to my point here.... If crafters didnt offer me 100 cpu wouldI still work for them? Ya lol most the time im working for 25. WouldI work for less then that? Ya. 400k a month/40kunits a month=10cpu. I have a ten cpu operating cost a month as if i dont change anything. As long as I make more then that im happy. 25 cpu is about right. I have taken the time to go and figure out what creature drops what resource. I have invested skill points so i can get the most resource per kill and i have invested time i could have used trying to figure out how to make money as a tailor. I think 25 cpu for my effort is a good price for that. I dont think that 100 cpu is nessacary but as long as it offered to me im going to take it.
My point here is... If you contract out start by offering a low amount and work your way up. There are people like me who will work for less but take more if offered. Now I can in no was supply to the whole server. So im not going to make a big chane in prices. But when I did this alot back in april - june of last year I had a whole association of scouts and rangers who worked for me. The agreement was I dictate what we are harvesting and I get 5% of sales and 5% went to the association for supplys, matiance, ect. and ill tell you we could move resources in the 100k stacks daily. Now quanitys like that affect server wide prices in the organic market.
Pawlin
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:13 am
#24
Exactly what resource is fetching 500 cpu?
I would guess that was probably a specific rare resource needed to make lightsabers and was sold in relateively small quantity.
I would guess that was probably a specific rare resource needed to make lightsabers and was sold in relateively small quantity.
Master_Mavric
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:42 am
#25
Pawlin wrote:
Exactly what resource is fetching 500 cpu?
To be honest i wondered about this too but i just figured differnt server differnt economics
Pawlin
Thu Jan 20, 2005 12:10 pm
#26
Ok, the original poster said they are from Starsider.
So out of curiosity I checked out the STarsider trade forum. And I find on the first 2 pages people advertising:
These prices look fairly typical and normal to me.