Artisan Archive
Thread: Crafting is NOT for the casual player.
Clarification:
Lower level players can't use upper level guns. I bought I upper level rifle to mess around with. You have to be certified to use the weapons used by the Master smiths. That comes from further experience up the weapon trees. If I try to use the upper level rifle, it delivers significant HAM damage on me and doesn't deliver any serious damage. This was designed that way to keep lower level players using lower level weapons.
As such, the market for CDEF's and D-18's is fixed based on the number of lower level players in the game. A noob marksman can buy a super weapon, but isn't going to get much use out of it. As a result they have to switch back to a CDEF based weapon. CDEF's and D-18 are slow to sell not because of the power crafters. They are slow to sell because of limitation on the number of new players on some servers who would need to use them and POOR QUALITY saturating the bazaar.
The bazaar interface needs fixing. It's hard to find quality product on the bazaar due to its design.
Some good points about difficulty, but I disagree with ideas of "casual". Once I'm not on vacation,and depending on time of year, I may not get to play 10 hours a week. Does that make me a failure? Hardly.
I agree with the poster who says I have to be even more dedicated. I don't want insta
nt gratification anyway. After 12 years of on line gaming, I'm thrilled just to have a game where I don't have to kill to advance.
I may be wrong and I apologize, but I also sense some elitism here. And boy, did we ever see that on EQ. If 10 years comes and goes and My SSI and pension hold out, I'll still be playing if the game grows and is fun. Of course, who knows what comes in the way of games next year or the next. (hoping for a phase 0 invite to Dragon Empires next week).
Games are cheap, monthly fees dirt, and there are a zillion games out there online. If one doesnt have fun, dont hesitate to move on.
Dtox wrote:
"You casual players who think that you'll be able to pick up Artisan and dilly-dally along, smelling the fauna, and not get down to grinding, setting up a hardcore, well-maintained infrastructure, advertising, selling, etc., are going to be in for a real surprise when those of us who are dedicated will swallow you whole in the in-game marketplace."
I for one have no interest in smelling Durnis and Vrelts. They probably stink.
Hey D'Tox, I am a casual player and a Novice Tailor on your server and have seen a lot of people post about your weapons - mostly good I might add.
I don't have any problem with powergamers because it is a real-life fact that the first to market is not always the long-run winner (PC market anyone?). I also do not have the time in my life to spend every waking moment playing SWG or any other game for that matter. It is just a game after all. If it takes me longer to get up the tree I am fine with that because I am here to have fun. When the fun stops, the game will stop and I will find something else that is fun to occupy my free time.
I also find it funny that you talk about winning as being related to achievement. My understanding is that this is an open-ended game meaning everyone has their own definition of winning. It would appear that winning to you is being first and biggest, my idea of winning is having fun. I may be a casual player, but I am also a winner.
One other thought that came to mind. Without knowing the average age of the SWG player base (especially the powergamers) I wonder what the situation would be like if this game launched in September rather than June. I think the summer (being out of school) has helped to broaden the achievment gap between the powergamer and the casual gamer. Would a September launch have made it different?
The people who are complaining are mostly casual players who want to be powergamers. A casual player can powerlevel a marksman, they cannot powerlevel an artisan. It's too bad that they won't be able to enjoy the profession because of that, but you can't make everyone happy. Casual players who take the time to enjoy the game will have a blast as an artisan, and they'll eventually be just as good as any powergamer, if not better. So what, a casual player can't supply the entire galaxy, but neither can the powergamers, even if they play 24x7. DTox, you should know this, when I played on Naritus I remember the weaponsmiths saying that they were bombarded with tells asking for weapons, and couldn't even come close to fulfilling all the requests. I'd even go so far as to say that the difficulty in making quality things is part of the plan to stop powergamers from monopolizing the market.They simply can't do it because of the time and effort involved in making just one decent product.There's definitely a market for casual gamers once they reach the elite levels. I expect eventually every city in the game will have 2 or 3 or more of each elite artisan profession, so that other players will no longer have to travel half the galaxy to find what they need, and there will always be a nearby merchant who has what they need.
D'Tox you have some good points, however I have to agree with Egan (Jeti_Titus). I wish the beta forum was still active so I could quote specifically; any way, I recall the Devs posting SWG was designed with the casual player in mind. I don't believe they had intended to make SWG a "winner only" game but a working, living virtual community where all players have an influence on the community. Like in real life, we have the masters of trades (ie. architects) and the novices. Without the novices, the virtual community would seize to exist. Who is going to fill the shoes of the current (or soon to be) crafting masters when they don't want to craft anymore and move on?
Any way, being a power-gamer or a casual gamer does not make you a better crafter. We all experience the same crafting bugs and problems. The only difference I see is just some have more time to craft and run their harvesters, factories and shops.
As much as I agree with D'Tox that crafting is a difficult road... not all casual crafters need concern themselves with ever being as proficient or top of the line as the apparent conglomerates that are now forming.
I craft out of the need for self sufficiency. I am by nature a loner... so I have made sure the skills I have to survive are those which will allow me the least amount of reliance on others... and of course the bazaar. I have successfully crafted my own weapons, stimpaks, musical instruments, and food. Granted, it is not going to be top of the line stuff like the hardcore elite can create, but you know what? It works... VERY well... and it allows me to contine MY adventures without the need for dropping massive amounts of credits for harvesters, auction items (usually the elite artisan items are way more money than they should be), and other supplies for daily life. I don't like to be tied down to anything, least of all a harvester. If there is something I cannot craft, then I do not need it. And I only need collect the resources I do need.
I may be a casual crafter, but my goal is NOT to outfit the entire galaxy with my goods... If I happen to make weaponsmith one day, so be it... at least I can craft myself a better rifle then. For now, my little crafted rifle will do JUST fine.
And that's all I have to say about that.
"the bazaar is flooded in every city because some fool decided to sell as much stuff as he could and he was a master weaponsmith, i have just started in the weaponsmtih tree, and i cant sell a fraggin thing!"
SWG put a lot of time into making sure this would be a free-market econemy, and this is one of the results. Personally, I am willing to put up with market floods for the freedom to make what I want, sell it at whatever price I can, and have there be some realism.
This is close to how it is in the real world. If a new factory comes online and floods a market, prices drop to nothing. Supply and Demand.
Do what I do, and take advantage of it! Go to places that have a lack of weapons, where there is no local artisan. Sure, you might have to leave the planet. It's called a problem, and problems are plot points. The Star Wars story never would have been, had Luke not *had* to leave the planet. He was forced by events to leave the planet, to struggle, to be frustrated.
Casual crafter here,
I paly for 2-4 hrs a night, some nights I don't play at all, I have a grand old time and i do well for myself. All these people who complain about the costs of harvesters and the like are really missing the point: this is made to be close to real life in another galaxy. How many small businesses go under in a year? A good number...even smart people with original ideas do. How many of us own expensive cars or houses? Should the game be any different? I think not. Bill Gates had a bazillion $ and I don't. You are a High level Weap Smith and I'm only a Master Art...them's the breaks! If someone grinds and floods the market more power too them (just look as all the substandard knock offs in your local store), I don't, but that's how things in the market are...it's a free market I don't want socialized economic engineering being introduced to subsidize people who want to get everything all at once....my two bits.
Saggy, Artisan.
Frankly, I believe that the casual gamers are being GREATLY helped by the Power Gaming Crafter...
Power gamers have gone the route of the grind, and have flooded the Market with cheap stuff... Now that they are at higher levels, they still put out non-experimented items... I am still at Eng 3, Dom 3, & Bus 2, and have started to build a customer base off of former patrions of the top weaponsmiths (Enott for example) due to their lack of non cloning weapons (Experimenting) and their inablility to get orders in a decient turnaround time. So they come to me, knowing upfront that I cant make them the Laser Riffle, etc. but can help them out with things like repair kits, traps, and power ups while using my TOP resources,Experimenting to the MAX on everything I sell them, and Not charging the high prices of others to pay for the material they have lost while grinding.
Been playing for 2 weeks and do not have a shop yet. I have teamed with a Armorsmith/Tailor and a Surveyor or 2 so I dont have to worry about Harvesters. We are all casual gamers and enjoy the Merchant Experience we can have. Will we catch up to the exalted ones, of course. Will we be better, who cares as long as MY customers are satisfied. I mean, who's better? Target? WalMart? KMart? Depends on who you ask..
So keep making customers angry with high prices and weapons that dont reflect your skill level... I'll take them every time they come looking for me...
I have not read all the responses to this post, because I couldn't wait to call describe this DToxWeaponsinc as so far up his own <insert expletive here>, because I think he is sooooo wrong.
There are some people (DToxWeaponsinc for example) who think that MMORPGs are all about getting as far through the game as possible in the least amount of time. Forget the fact we are in a very immersive universe, forget the fact I can sit in a cantina and chat with friends. No, unless I am the first person to get a PA hall built I feel as if I have failed as an architect, and anyone who isn't willing to put in 16 hour days 7 days a week isn't worthy to pick up a crafting tool.
What about the players who want to craft but have no desire to bother with the higher levels? Maybethey see all architects charging towards large houses and PA halls, and would rather stay building small houses, casually, while making friends, exploring the planets etc.
I agree that people who put in the hours deserve to get further than those who are casual, but this game has room for both types. There will always be new people starting the game, and they will have little money so will be looking for CDEFs, bone armor etc, perfect for the casual gamer to manufacture because the hard core crafters are busy making the higher level stuff that newbies can't afford yet.
This isn't a competition. If you get to Master status before somebody else, you haven't 'won'. Using your argument, you might as well say it isn't worth anybody buying the game after day 1, because they will never get as far as the dedicated grinders, so why bother?