Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisan Top 5 as of Publish 8
also forgot to say that there is no way all master artisans can harvest the ammount of resoures need to feed the crafters and such PA's would go around buyin all resources needed for there doctor/armorsmith/weaponsmith/chef/tailor/droid engineerto make there stuff in which most will have to end up going artisan anyways cause they wouldnt be able to make without it, i see no reason for this other then making Master artisans more wealthy in credits for the high demand of resources that would be needed.....
said it in above post if there are to be certs for harvestors put in the mining profession
Sinist wrote:
Sigh yet another who doesnt understand anythingabout the proposal for harvester certifications. Another hastily made 1 star thread that assumes thatartisans either a) want to get rich or b) be the only ones that willl be harvesting resources. Another awesome economic strategist*sarcasm*. And more imporantly another one who left the integrity and balance of the game at the door.
Message Edited by Sinist on 05-20-2004 12:48 PM
So pray tell, what is it in this brilliant scheme that we should fathom, weren't we so devestatingly dense.
I mean, from my point of view comments like "everyone else should make do with personal harvesters" and "if doctors want resources they'll have to buy them" (no exact quotes, just what I thought it sounded like) are pretty clear. By the way, if you're not doing it for money or for monopoly, why bother?
I'm sure you don't need another non-artisan telling you how incredibly stupid this is as an idea. But I feel I have to chime in anyways.
Really, there are a few arguments that can easily be made against this extractor certification buisness:
1) Do you really need a monopoly to make more money, Artisans are the welthiest of the starting professions? And you've got 173 Skill points left to make heavy money. What have you spent them on? Master Medic, Master Entertainer and Brawler 1001? No wonder you need ways to make money.
You people already have a vendor, the ability survey (thus giving you the upper hand on the resource market)and the money making ability of selling vehicles and various low level knick knacks. Cornering the resource market? Get real.
2) No offense guys but you ain't qualified to sell all the resources wo of other professions need. Seriously. As a CM I need Titanium Aluminum, Copper, Tolium Reactive Gas, Fungi, Eleton Reactive Gas, Class 1 Radioactive, Lokian Wild Wheat, Dantooine Berry Fruit, Talusian Water, Class 2 Liquid Petrochem, Class 4 Liquid Petrochem, Tatooinian Fiberplast, Yavinian Fiberplast. Are you saying that you will be able to provide all these resources (some incredibly rare) with decent to good quality at an affordable price?
Forget it. You won't. You'll probably be occupied digging up resources for your own projects and for allother non-artisanprofessions Doctors, Smugglers, Bio Engineers (and the Elite Crafters that prefer to buy their resources as some architects I know.) Besides, the only way I can make decent amounts of money (enough to buy rescources from a cheap ass Master Artisan that is) as a combat medic is by selling my excess resources.
Man, finding the resources I need in vendors or on the bazaar is hard enough as it is. It won't change when the people who know it's uses and it's values are gone from the market.
3) You want to corner the resource market? Ok fine. You start paying decent tips to entertainers and to medics. If I had ten credits for each artisan (or any other player except medics really) that have left me with nothing but air or at best 500 credits for healing maybe 500 wounds I'd be a millionaire. There are precious few ways to make money in this game unless you have something to sell or is a more than decent fighter profession. (who needs a lot of money buying the overpriced stuff the elite crafters sell)
4) I should make do with personal harvesters? Don't make me laugh. If decent Eleton spawns on my serverI'm smacking all my seven harvesting lots with medium or heavy harvesters down on the spawn. God knows when it will be the next time and I need 25 (or 28 I can't remember) units of it per subcomponent (of which a C poison needs two). Personal harvesters are fine when you are green and you only need enough resources to grind medic (or master artisan for that matter) but if you want to make good stuff you need better stuff.
Ok fine, I could spend the poinst getting Master Artisan or Surveyor 4 or whatever required. But I'd have to drop like all of carbineer. Yeah, I can see how that would make me happy.
If this demand gets through I see only one decent solution:
Remove the medic profession alltogether.
Drop the merchant line in basic Artisan.
Merchant now needs Master Artisan.
Basic merchant skills are replaced by four boxes of medical crafting (and a few medical skills)
Doctor and Combat Medic now require Master Artisan, Bio Engineer requires Medical Crafting IV.
Drag Patient and First Aid gets moved to Combat Medic.
Any player can use the stims that a Medic Crafter can build They will be A's and half of todays power B's.
Smugglers still get screwed or they require Medical Crafting IV instead of Unarmed IV.
But, of course, that is far to big of a change, and then maybe we could keep the extractors the way they are then?
Wouldn't petitioning for perks to artisans be better? I saw an excellent suggestion about letting Artisans monitor and partially manage their harvesters from the datapad. Maybe increased surveying skills (and master artisan) could allow you to place harvesters in areas where we others can't? Maybe Master Artisans could get smaller footprints on their harvesters? Lower maitenace prices? Small changes that makes having these skills worthwile but still letting us who need to extract our own resources keep doing that.
Message Edited by Sinist on 05-20-2004 12:48 PM
Sinist, you have still yet to answer my questions on page 5. Your dribble means nothing until, as you have said, back it up.
joined42904,
As Dokar_of_Scylla, pointed out, how can you guide your harvester if you are not online?Harvesters aremachines you place, push buttons, and walk away. You cannot be guiding a machine when you are offline. Even if your character was guiding your harvester, how would he be doing so? The machine does everything - all you do is insert power and money. You do not guide the machine while you are online - what makes you think it is required when you are offline?
Harvesters do not contain a survey device. All it contains is information about the current resources in the ground at your particular location. Placing one and redeeding them for the sole purpose of finding resources is a bit much, if you ask me. I do not know anyone that does this. It costs money and is very time consuming. It is an impractical argument.
I see the argument "You have to have scout skills to gather hide, bone, and meat" quite frequently. You have to have artisan skills to harvest resources in the same manner that scouts get theirs: /sample. /harvest and /sample both require the player to be in the world and require them to extract resources. Aritisans have to survey for their resource, while scouts have to kill their prey to get theres. There's not that much difference between the two professions in that regard.
1) Powerups sell well. I like what many have suggested as fixes to powerup crafting (choosing primary stat, etc.). How about armor powerups? Vehicle powerups? (speed, handling, hp) Harvester powerups? (extraction rate, power usage). We could buff all the things that doctors don't (by selling items, not by direct buffing).
2) Survey line should include bonuses to harvester extraction rates. This answers the core problem that harvester certs tries to solve: surveying ability doesn't feel like enough of a benefit for all those skill points. Another idea would be to make surveying ability better at master artisan, though really 320 isn't so bad. Perhaps 512m at MA?
3) Art? We are the generic artisan class, perhaps we could make sculptures and paintings to sell.
In general I think we should be the tweakers, the ones who make the things you own better.
Jarloo
joined42904 wrote:
Maybe I just don't get it.
How is taking just the survey tree of artisan to survey 4...and most proposals I've seen would let you use at least mediums at this point...going to ruin completely anyone's template? That isn't a whole lot of points.
......
I don't understand why anyone needs Master Rifleman just to get meants. That doesn't really make sense to me. My combat guy isn't a master and can get meats quite well. I'm quite sure you could get meats relatively well by dropping selected parts of rifleman and taking the survey tree of artisan. Do I expect you to want to do this? No...of course not.
Here's the thing...it isn't that hard to master artisan. Some people would do it in a day or two when there's a good spawn that they have to have some of. I don't have a problem with that. Other folks might get a second account. No problem with that either though it shouldn't obviously be required.
Sinist wrote:
You guys are seeing this in a completely different light then the truth.
Since your in such a pit of despair I wont even bother to try and explain how this system is 100% flawless for SWG in EVERY SINGLE MATHEMATICAL LOGICAL WAY.
Fact is there will be no price increase, no shortage of demand (except the best of the best) and well production will be reasonable. The numbers and facts are there if you decide you wish to seek the truth. DOnt make assumptions on your incomplete logic of the situation.
Smoke some crack and you too can see Sinist's version of the 'truth'
Guruweaver,
On what basis did you select one and only one of the issues raised by artisans in this thread to have a poll taken about it? Because the basis of that action was unclear to me. Was it that you could see both sides of the issue? Because most intelligent people can see both sides of most issues.
Can we expect to see polls about the other questions you propose to ask? Or just about harvester certifications? I would respectfully ask that you treat all issues and concerns of the artisan community equally.
Sinist is not the only proponent of the certification idea. It comes from many other people than Sinist, and is Sinist has perhaps not acted kindly and respectfully toward those with whom he disagrees, I hope that this is not seen as a good reason to treat the issue of harvester certification as one might treat an issue raised solely by someone who behaves as Sinist does. The topic was started by outta control and has many well-reasoned proponents.
There is a serious game mechanic concern regarding letting just anyone mine, and though this aspect is not really an artisan issue but an overall concern, it should be a matter of special concern to the profession that has within it the surveying tree.
Are you unaware of the interest the certification proposal has aroused in the non-artisan community? Do you not think that the ebayers and cross-lot swappers are going to come and vote en masse in that poll of yours? Do you as correspondent have any way to check and see whether the folks voting are artisans or not? How do you ensure the integrity of the poll process you started? I don't think you can. And I urge you to disregard the poll.
Are the correspondents charged with not making waves or publicly mentioning serious flaws in game design like effective mining of resources by characters whose only skill sets are combat related? If so, please just tell us and we will expect you to do the job you have undertaken.
I also urge you to consider how an issue should get to the top 5. Should it get to the top 5 only if it is of general concern to all artisans? If so, you will probably be expected to explain how the 5 you choose are of general concern to all of us. And unless you break down issues into sub-parts, it might not be easy to find 5 issues that are of general concern to all artisans. Oh...unless you talk about repairing vehicles and the like when garages are already in-game and function quite well....actually like paying maintenence on harvs in some sense.
I submit that any real issue that is of serious concern to even a significant minority of the artisan community should find its way to the top 5 issues unless there are clearly other vastly more important issues. And let's face it...there aren't that many urgent issues facing our community.
So...may I see your proposed top 5? I don't think I'm the only one who eagerly anticipates your well-reasoned and important questions if they aren't to include harvester certifications on the basis of some deeply flawed poll. (Oh...and just look at the vehemence of some of the No votes...and tell me you think they are the considered opinions of your fellow artisans rather than the leaders of combat guilds, ebayers, and cross-server lot exchangers.)