Artisan Archive

Hey all,

Thunderheart has answered our question. The question was decided in this thread.

The answer is in this thread.

Below is his quote:

Artisan: Will you give Master Artisans an increase in Survey range, such as 512m?



Probably not. The reason why we wouldn't increase the range or it would be difficult to increase the range is because the information isn’t available at that range.

End quote.
Please comment in this thread or the one in the In Live board.

Thanks!

Actually, they are dodging the question, and giving a bogus 'not gonna do it' reply.

technologically it sure as hell can be done within the current system, its just that Artisans havent created much of a stir about it.

Additionally, the data most definately *is* there, as my personal testing has proven that the drop-patterns on resources are formulated
based on the epicenters of the pattern.

basically:

When resources spawn, the server plots 7 main variables.
For explanation purposes i will refer to them as:

"Resource" = (Resource type, probably a number)
"Resource Name" = (Randomly generated name, exlusionary of previous used names for specific types)
"Center Concentration" = (This is equal to the resource concentraion at the H/V axis)
"Concentration Size" = (This number determines how large the "Center Concentration" is)
"Horizontal Axis" = (This is the "X-axis" of the deposit center)
"Vertial Axis" = (This is the "Y-axis" of the deposit center)

These 7 variables are then used in a formula seeded with an additional random variable at creation
to determine the "splash area" of the resource in question.

The type of resource determines the overall radius of the resource drop, which is why water, ore,
solar, wind, and some organic resources seem to have low center concentrations, and high overall
spreads (this explains finding large patches of 35% ore on nearly any planet, and why rare resources
are usually highly concentrated (90%+) with very small patches)

When a player surveys for any resource, the server calculates the resource information, combined with the
coordinate the survey is being conducted from, and displays the forecasted resource pattern.

The farther out you are from the resource center, the less accurate the concentration numbers tend to be
which is why you sometimes see the numbers fluxuate +/- 5% when you are tracking the center of a concentration.

To achieve the 512m and 1024m survey radius, all that is required is the tweaking of a few variables within
the basic survey scripts, but being that much farther from the center concentration, the margin of error
might be upwards of +/- 50% instead of +/- 5%.


But the end-result would STILL be the same, because people that care about having such large displays of resource
data, are not interested in the outskirts of a deposit, only the concentrations nearest the center which are highest.

the 512m and 1024m ranges would serve as an overall GUIDE to finding resources barely outside our current scanning ranges...





anyways... im just saying that the denial of the expanded survey range is a cop-out and the developers are
just not interested in providing such extremely immenseful usefullness to a class that is nearly apathetic
on all issues related to artisans...

I figured it was because of the server zones and that the data isnt loaded to your machine until you get within a certain distance (say 1 Km for an assumed example) therefore the survey device could never work at that range since that data doesn't exist in your cache until you get close enough and it downloads. Now im not saying that is how it is, that is my best guess as to why we got the response we did.

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JediMindslayer wrote:

When resources spawn, the server plots 7 main variables.
For explanation purposes i will refer to them as:

"Resource" = (Resource type, probably a number)
"Resource Name" = (Randomly generated name, exlusionary of previous used names for specific types)
"Center Concentration" = (This is equal to the resource concentraion at the H/V axis)
"Concentration Size" = (This number determines how large the "Center Concentration" is)
"Horizontal Axis" = (This is the "X-axis" of the deposit center)
"Vertial Axis" = (This is the "Y-axis" of the deposit center)

These 7 variables are then used in a formula seeded with an additional random variable at creation
to determine the "splash area" of the resource in question.

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Not picking nits, just trying to fully understand your point: this lists only six variables (unless you're counting the "random seed" asthe seventh). What's the seventh?

Also (assumingit's not your seventh variable), shouldn't the set ofattribute values (OQ, SR, etc.) of a resourcebe one of the items on the list of variables? The set ofattribute values may or may not contribute to the splash area calculation, butit should probably be listed as one of the key variables on the chance thatit does play a part.

Finally, I would also add one other variable:whether there's a city nearby that has the special feature to improve nearby resource concentrations. (I want to say it's the "Manufacturing Center" special but I don't want to trust my memory on that.)

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To achieve the 512m and 1024m survey radius, all that is required is the tweaking of a few variables within
the basic survey scripts, but being that much farther from the center concentration, the margin of error
might be upwards of +/- 50% instead of +/- 5%.

But the end-result would STILL be the same, because people that care about having such large displays of resource data, are not interested in the outskirts of a deposit, only the concentrations nearest the center which are highest.

the 512m and 1024m ranges would serve as an overall GUIDE to finding resources barely outside our current scanning ranges...

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I tend to agree with you. I'm not prepared to go as far as you and conclude that we're being intentionally misled by anyone, but I have to admit that I can't see how the answer we've been given is correct.

My problem stems from the fact that I can survey for a particular resource any number of times, and I will always find the same concentration percentages in the same location. There are only two ways this can work:

1. All concentration percentages for a resource areunique to my character and are stored along with my character's data.

2. All concentration percentages for a resource are generated by the server for all players to use; concentration variables are fixed for the lifetime of the resource and are stored once in that galaxy'sdatabase.

There are two conclusions I draw from looking at these options.

First, Option 1 would seem to be falsified by the additional fact thatplayer cities of a sufficient sizecan choose a city specialty that allows for improved resource concentrations near the city. If that's true, then it has to be equallytrue for multiple players.So I consider it verylikely that concentration variables for every resource are fully generated as soon as a resource comes into existence on a galaxy, are stored in one place on the database, and are the same for every player on that galaxy.

Second, it's actually irrelevant whether resources are stored uniquely per character or once globally -- the mere fact that, once generated,concentration variables are invariantunti that resource is removedtells us that there must be a way to calculate displayableconcentration percentages for aspecific resource given any X,Y coordinatesas input.

The fact that I can survey once at 0,0 and get specific results, then leave, then come back to 0,0 and get the same results forces me to conclude that the variables necessary to calculate a resource's concentration percentages are not randomly generated on-the-fly, but are fully generated across an entire planet for all players the moment a new resource is created on a galaxy.

I don't see any way around it;weseem tohave a contradiction between how surveying appears to work and the developer response forwarded by Thunderheart --thefeatures in the game that give us what we can seecurrently should allowextending the range of surveys. If there's a flaw in my reasoning somewhere, I can't see it.

Anyone?

--Flatfingers

this is old, look for the new thread

BUMP, because their answer was complete BS...

STOP REPLYING TO THIS

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Flynn_Nomad wrote:
STOP REPLYING TO THIS

ITS AN OLD THREAD

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Respectfully, this isn't an old thread. I should know, as I created it.

This is a comment thread for the question we got answered on Wednesday, April 21st. The comments made here as to the quality or acceptability of the answer we received will be bundled up and sent to the devs.

If we don't give them feedback, then they won't know if they are going in the right direction. So, please, comment away!

Take care,

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Guruweaver wrote:

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Flynn_Nomad wrote:
STOP REPLYING TO THIS

ITS AN OLD THREAD

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Respectfully, this isn't an old thread. I should know, as I created it.

This is a comment thread for the question we got answered on Wednesday, April 21st. The comments made here as to the quality or acceptability of the answer we received will be bundled up and sent to the devs.

If we don't give them feedback, then they won't know if they are going in the right direction. So, please, comment away!

Take care,

---

Sorry, I thought this was the answer to the last qustion as opposed to the question for May 5th, which we obviously haven't got an answer to yet....

I was just afraid people would think this was the answer to May 5ths question, as no one seems to be responding or replying to the MAy 5th Thread which IMHO is more impotant to focus on because of the time frame, than this thread...

Sorry

bleh....
that is my reaction to the answer.

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Whrlwnd13 wrote:

Grum, Would it be possible for us torebut their responseand ask...

1- Why is it not possible? The game mechanics must state the highest concentration of a given resource spawn. All that's needed is forMAs to see a bigger picture of the concentration.

2-Explain why extended survey range is important to MAs.

I think perhaps we need to work on how the initial question to the devs is stated. If you just ask. "Are MAs going to get extended survey range?" surely the answer will be No,

But if a case is stated within the question...

Currently there is minimal benefit for becoming a Master Artisan. All thats granted in the Master box is Vehicle schematics & components for other crafting trades. Vehicles are selling for less than the price of the resources, and the components are of little use to the MA if he's not persuing an elite crafting profession.

There is no bonus to Assembly, Experimentation orSurveying range once Master is achieved. In order to make it more desirable toobtain and keep Master Artisan would it be possible to get extended survey range for Masters only? A range of 512m to 1024m would be beneficial without causing an unbalance.

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I like this question, can we ask this next?