Artisan Archive
Thread: Artisans want harvestor certifications. Please Read and submit your comments.
Page 1 of 7
Opie76
Tue May 18, 2004 3:37 pm
#1
First off let me say that as of right now I am neither a Master Artisan, nor a master eLite crafter. However, that will change very soon. Therefore on my daily scouring of the forums, I was shocked to see that in the Top 5 list for Artisans, they want harvestors to have certification. With novice artisan and no survey, they want you to use personal extractors only. As you progress up the survey skill tree, then you can use the medium ones. They want Heavy extractors for themselves, and no one else. Here are some links to the discussions:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=36994
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=37151
The artisans feel they are the welfare crafter, and this will help put money back in their pockets. This makes me laugh, because i believe artisan is a novice profession and not really supposed to be making as much money as the elite crafters that spend more skill points.
Currently the arguments for Certs for Harvestors are as follows:
1. "I need scout to skin animals, so why can a non artisan harvest
resources."
2. "This will help put money back in the pockets that need it, namely
artisan community." I laugh at this one, because artisans will
be in a position to price gouge all customers that want bulk
resources in a timely manner, for they alone can get the most
amount of resources , the quickest.
3. "You have to be certified to use the best weapons, so in all
fairness, you should be certified to use best harvestors."
IF we learned anything from this last image designer update, it's that the developers seem to have an affinity to take "Content" from the larger player base and give it to a small community, instead of developing new content for the profession in need of it. One would think that Space Expansion will yield some new schematics, and a new need for artisans to customize the ships.
If this is allowed to considered, and eventually implemented , i feel one or more of the following will happen.
1. Elite Crafters will now be stuck with medium harvestors, unless
the spend skillpoints on Master Artisan. Kiss your combat skill
bye.
2. For those elite crafters that stick to medium harvestors, they
will no longer be able to be self sufficient in getting resources
They will have to tighten their supply and make less items,
and thereby raise their prices. Or they may contract master
artisans to gather their resources, but again this will add to
cost of items.
3. Master artisans will rule the resource market, charging whatever
the market will bear, leading to resource shortages. New
crafters will not be able to compete because they are using their
slow personal harvestors.
4. People that are planning on doing Shipwright will now have to
spend more skill points to harvest materials. Leaving less points
for some sort of combat build. I can already forcee a shortage
ships if this happens.
5. Some elite crafters will in an uproar over this happening.
Less crafters = shorter supply = inflation in prices.
I understand that the most elite crafters don't usually bother with their own resource gathering. THey get guildmates and friends to drop harvestors and they pay them for what they gather. If this change is allowed to happen, using your combat buddies will be a thing of the past, in terms of resource harvesting. Moreover, many also use static lot swaps to get their needed resources. You should be warned that the artisan community wants they ability of static lots through lot trades elminated also.
If this is allowed to happen, then i call for some more changes in the name
of balancing. Feel free to add to this list.
1. Elite ,or best armor should only be worn by people with a master
combat profession.
2. Craftable items, such as harvestors should now be subject to decay
penalites on death. Heck, we have to worry about our armor, why
not let the artisans worry about losing value also. I know this
will not be a popular. IF crafters need protection, they they can
hire combat types to be bodyguards while they make their harvestor
runs.
In conclusion, after all my ranting and raving here I hope that the crafting and not-crafting community will let their voices be heard. DO NOT IMPLEMENT HARVESTOR CERTIFICATIONS. Harvestors are a tool, and i feel that novice artisan should be enough certification for the use of any of them.
-Ho'mer (FLurry)
p.s. sorry for the poor paragraph formatting. Its been awhile since i posted, and didn't try that hard to make it look neat.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=36994
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=artisan&message.id=37151
The artisans feel they are the welfare crafter, and this will help put money back in their pockets. This makes me laugh, because i believe artisan is a novice profession and not really supposed to be making as much money as the elite crafters that spend more skill points.
Currently the arguments for Certs for Harvestors are as follows:
1. "I need scout to skin animals, so why can a non artisan harvest
resources."
2. "This will help put money back in the pockets that need it, namely
artisan community." I laugh at this one, because artisans will
be in a position to price gouge all customers that want bulk
resources in a timely manner, for they alone can get the most
amount of resources , the quickest.
3. "You have to be certified to use the best weapons, so in all
fairness, you should be certified to use best harvestors."
IF we learned anything from this last image designer update, it's that the developers seem to have an affinity to take "Content" from the larger player base and give it to a small community, instead of developing new content for the profession in need of it. One would think that Space Expansion will yield some new schematics, and a new need for artisans to customize the ships.
If this is allowed to considered, and eventually implemented , i feel one or more of the following will happen.
1. Elite Crafters will now be stuck with medium harvestors, unless
the spend skillpoints on Master Artisan. Kiss your combat skill
bye.
2. For those elite crafters that stick to medium harvestors, they
will no longer be able to be self sufficient in getting resources
They will have to tighten their supply and make less items,
and thereby raise their prices. Or they may contract master
artisans to gather their resources, but again this will add to
cost of items.
3. Master artisans will rule the resource market, charging whatever
the market will bear, leading to resource shortages. New
crafters will not be able to compete because they are using their
slow personal harvestors.
4. People that are planning on doing Shipwright will now have to
spend more skill points to harvest materials. Leaving less points
for some sort of combat build. I can already forcee a shortage
ships if this happens.
5. Some elite crafters will in an uproar over this happening.
Less crafters = shorter supply = inflation in prices.
I understand that the most elite crafters don't usually bother with their own resource gathering. THey get guildmates and friends to drop harvestors and they pay them for what they gather. If this change is allowed to happen, using your combat buddies will be a thing of the past, in terms of resource harvesting. Moreover, many also use static lot swaps to get their needed resources. You should be warned that the artisan community wants they ability of static lots through lot trades elminated also.
If this is allowed to happen, then i call for some more changes in the name
of balancing. Feel free to add to this list.
1. Elite ,or best armor should only be worn by people with a master
combat profession.
2. Craftable items, such as harvestors should now be subject to decay
penalites on death. Heck, we have to worry about our armor, why
not let the artisans worry about losing value also. I know this
will not be a popular. IF crafters need protection, they they can
hire combat types to be bodyguards while they make their harvestor
runs.
In conclusion, after all my ranting and raving here I hope that the crafting and not-crafting community will let their voices be heard. DO NOT IMPLEMENT HARVESTOR CERTIFICATIONS. Harvestors are a tool, and i feel that novice artisan should be enough certification for the use of any of them.
-Ho'mer (FLurry)
p.s. sorry for the poor paragraph formatting. Its been awhile since i posted, and didn't try that hard to make it look neat.
Icecream47
Tue May 18, 2004 3:48 pm
#2
i think they have every right to give high end harvestors to high level artisans. would you let a farm-hand run a highly complex farming operation? no.
stop dabblers and give the real craftersan edge over those that dont commit to the points
Visun
Tue May 18, 2004 4:09 pm
#3
If Artisans want this, that's no problem.
Master Chef, Master Fencer, and Master Artisan is possible with points to spare. I'm not going to put up with some greedy, price-gouging Artisan--and you know quite a few will implement the arm-and-a-leg pricing system. They may even do an all-arms-and-all-legs pricing system on really good resources like any extra work was coming out of them. And on the plus side, I'll be able to make my own swoops!
I have a feeling if this is implemented, every player with an elite crafting skill will incorporate Master Artisan into their build so they don't have to deal with greedy Artisans. Real Artisans will be worse off than they are now. Could be wrong though.
Master Chef, Master Fencer, and Master Artisan is possible with points to spare. I'm not going to put up with some greedy, price-gouging Artisan--and you know quite a few will implement the arm-and-a-leg pricing system. They may even do an all-arms-and-all-legs pricing system on really good resources like any extra work was coming out of them. And on the plus side, I'll be able to make my own swoops!
I have a feeling if this is implemented, every player with an elite crafting skill will incorporate Master Artisan into their build so they don't have to deal with greedy Artisans. Real Artisans will be worse off than they are now. Could be wrong though.
Alciril
Tue May 18, 2004 4:15 pm
#4
It would be appropriate to allow everyone to use personal harvesters, but I feel that medium and heavy harvesters shouldn't be available to the general public. As it is, highlevel combat classes can supplement their already high income by reselling resources while some crafters are forced to mine resources solely for their own use.
Harvester decay on death would be pointless. Most dedicated crafters never put themselves in a position to die. And in the case where a crafter picks up a combat certification, then they're subject to the same clothing, weapon, and armor decay that all combatants face. Also, if a combatant would like to use harvesters, they should have to take the same route and learn an artisan/crafting skill. After all, that would only be fair, wouldn't it?
There are already certifications for weapons, stimpacks, medicines, droids, and some buildings. It was an oversight (when the mining profession was removed)that harvesters can be used by anyoneand it simply hasn't been fixed. With plentiful resources driving the cost of crafted goods down, tighter controls on harvesting is something the economy sorely needs.
WarFerret
Tue May 18, 2004 4:20 pm
#5
Get ready to see the prices for houses, weapons, armour, foodand buffs double ifthey implement this, purely to line the pockets of Master Artisans, which let's forget, is not an elite profession.
Can you honestly see architect's getting the VAST quantity of resources they need from medium harvesters ?
Can't anyone come up with a sensible idea to add to their profession without taking it away from someone else's ?
Let Master Artisans tweak the extraction rate on their harvesters so they get a better rate, or it uses less power or something, don't start following the ID revamp idea of stripping abilities to bolster professions that don't stand on their own.
rjbacigalupo
Tue May 18, 2004 5:57 pm
#6
**** no, this would be terrible for the economy!!! Here is why
- Few people will waste skill points to put a harvie down
- Cross-Lot swaps would be destroyed
- Prices of everything would probably 10 fold minimum!
- Everything crafted would be rare, and loot sucks to much
- Newbs would be waiting weeks of doing delivery missions before they could afford even a scout blaster
- Simply put, just shutup and go back to sleep, you were to tired when you wrote this
Visun
Tue May 18, 2004 6:01 pm
#7
Good point, Ferret.
I don't know why they stripped the ability to migrate your own stats. Seriously, it took days to fully migrate whereas an ID can do it in 10 minutes. What's wrong with this? Most people would opt to pay the price and have their stats migrated by an ID. Now I can't migrate jack unless I find an ID and probably get price-gouged to do it. I saw one migrating for 30k. Pfffft.
If they'd fix barrels for chefs, artisans would see some more business. I heard with the smuggler revamp that they might allow the smuggler to do a durability slice on vehicles. Why? Why not give it to the Artisan? After all, they made the damn thing, so they should know how to make it more durable. I think slicing weapons, containers, terminals, keypads (geonosian cave), and armor is enough perks for slicing.
Hell, Artisans are artists, right? Let's let them break out their paints and color armor that isn't available in the palettes. I'm sick of white or black Ubese and I'd like orange composite, not that rust color they have--and I'd pay for this because black and white Ubese is getting so dull!
Let's allow them to make my house pretty. Frankly, I hate how Corellian homes look, but Coronet is a prime business location. Nabooian homes practically don't need any furniture because they look good 'stock.' I'd like to pay an Artisan to come to my house and paint my walls or some s**t. I spend a lot of time at my house crafting foods and whatnot, and it gets irritating feeling like I'm sitting in jail cell.
Rather than these vehicle customization kits that last 5 minutes, let Artisans paint your swoop so that it's permanent. I give swoops away to n00blars all the time (that rental thing is a kick in the balls, imo), so I would be coming back for more paint jobs. And those who engage in heavy PvP often get theirs destroyed.
Let Artisans paint your faction's insignia onto your clothing--and permanently (I'd love this). Let Artisans repair your vehicle for a little less than what the garages charge. Let them color weapons, too! Give a T-21 and Scythe some style! This would be a big seller as well.
Give them new craftable paintings, sculptures, rugs, and tapestries. Architects can make enough stuff, so all of this would be for the Artisan. As Ferret said, why not allow an Artisan to give a harvestor an efficiency tweak so it uses less power/money. As a chef, I have about 25 heavy harvestors, so an Artisan would bank off of me with one visit.
I'm fine if the Devs do make this change, but there are many, many other ways that Artisans could make some money without it. I just don't want the Devs pulling gameplay from many just to toss a bone to a few. And I just realized how long this post is. I tend to do that when I'm brainstorming. =/
I don't know why they stripped the ability to migrate your own stats. Seriously, it took days to fully migrate whereas an ID can do it in 10 minutes. What's wrong with this? Most people would opt to pay the price and have their stats migrated by an ID. Now I can't migrate jack unless I find an ID and probably get price-gouged to do it. I saw one migrating for 30k. Pfffft.
If they'd fix barrels for chefs, artisans would see some more business. I heard with the smuggler revamp that they might allow the smuggler to do a durability slice on vehicles. Why? Why not give it to the Artisan? After all, they made the damn thing, so they should know how to make it more durable. I think slicing weapons, containers, terminals, keypads (geonosian cave), and armor is enough perks for slicing.
Hell, Artisans are artists, right? Let's let them break out their paints and color armor that isn't available in the palettes. I'm sick of white or black Ubese and I'd like orange composite, not that rust color they have--and I'd pay for this because black and white Ubese is getting so dull!
Let's allow them to make my house pretty. Frankly, I hate how Corellian homes look, but Coronet is a prime business location. Nabooian homes practically don't need any furniture because they look good 'stock.' I'd like to pay an Artisan to come to my house and paint my walls or some s**t. I spend a lot of time at my house crafting foods and whatnot, and it gets irritating feeling like I'm sitting in jail cell.
Rather than these vehicle customization kits that last 5 minutes, let Artisans paint your swoop so that it's permanent. I give swoops away to n00blars all the time (that rental thing is a kick in the balls, imo), so I would be coming back for more paint jobs. And those who engage in heavy PvP often get theirs destroyed.
Let Artisans paint your faction's insignia onto your clothing--and permanently (I'd love this). Let Artisans repair your vehicle for a little less than what the garages charge. Let them color weapons, too! Give a T-21 and Scythe some style! This would be a big seller as well.
Give them new craftable paintings, sculptures, rugs, and tapestries. Architects can make enough stuff, so all of this would be for the Artisan. As Ferret said, why not allow an Artisan to give a harvestor an efficiency tweak so it uses less power/money. As a chef, I have about 25 heavy harvestors, so an Artisan would bank off of me with one visit.
I'm fine if the Devs do make this change, but there are many, many other ways that Artisans could make some money without it. I just don't want the Devs pulling gameplay from many just to toss a bone to a few. And I just realized how long this post is. I tend to do that when I'm brainstorming. =/
KtuluFire
Tue May 18, 2004 6:07 pm
#8
Are you just retarted or something? How did you ever get elder?
Alciril wrote:
It would be appropriate to allow everyone to use personal harvesters, but I feel that medium and heavy harvesters shouldn't be available to the general public. As it is, highlevel combat classes can supplement their already high income by reselling resources while some crafters are forced to mine resources solely for their own use.
Harvester decay on death would be pointless. Most dedicated crafters never put themselves in a position to die. And in the case where a crafter picks up a combat certification, then they're subject to the same clothing, weapon, and armor decay that all combatants face. Also, if a combatant would like to use harvesters, they should have to take the same route and learn an artisan/crafting skill. After all, that would only be fair, wouldn't it?
There are already certifications for weapons, stimpacks, medicines, droids, and some buildings. It was an oversight (when the mining profession was removed)that harvesters can be used by anyoneand it simply hasn't been fixed. With plentiful resources driving the cost of crafted goods down, tighter controls on harvesting is something the economy sorely needs.
rjbacigalupo
Tue May 18, 2004 6:11 pm
#9
Yes, fighters (most of us who don't camp some cave 24/7 to get loot) get nothing! You think doing missions makes us a fortune? Like he said... RETARD
I mean.... you can't even spell harvestEr why should we even listen?
Message Edited by rjbacigalupo on 05-18-2004 07:13 PM
DonjoGrget
Tue May 18, 2004 6:26 pm
#10
I don't think that harvesting skills should be stripped from regular characters. How about just make artisans be able to enhance their harvesters? Survey 1: 10% increase in harvester rate, survey 3: 25%, Master Artisan: 50% increase.
saladin123
Tue May 18, 2004 6:35 pm
#11
This is a bit rediculous that master artisans, which are not even an elite prof are asking for the high end harvestor certs.
Kharn_JB
Tue May 18, 2004 6:44 pm
#12
While I agree that artisans with surveying should get preference when it comes to harvesting, I also agree that taking away harvesting from the masses would hurt more than it would help. However, I agree that some certification should be added, but only for heavy harvestors. Make heavy mineral harvestors 15 BER, but make them surveying 4 or master artisan certification. also, add heavy 15 BER (or around that, 12 to 16 BER max experimentation) harvestors for all other harvestor types, but make them surveying 4 or master artisan certification. Of course, that's only one idea. Another suggestion would be to give the surveying line "harvestor efficientcy", which would reduce the maint/power costs of using the harvestor and/or increase the BER output of the harvestor.
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