Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Quad 80% special protection resists on composite?
May I misunderstand your problem...but you do realize since you're already using layers you're actually HURTING yourself by layering all those different types right?
If you can't layer stun then layer electric or acid only and then find a slicer...if you're hitting 65% base then you can, after enough slices, get a matching suit of 87% base...so why would you be concerned about getting 4 80% resists into the unsliceable special protections?
You're already triple layering so your HAMs are high anyway...if you exp your layers to4% baseand then add the rest into HAM, you'll end up with segsconsiderably lighter than what you're making now and you'll not only get "quad 80's" but you'll get 80% across the board
- I can make stun at 40 with 66 base and get it sliced for effectiveness. However, this is a very heavy suit and is expensive to slice for effectiveness
- I can make kinetic at 80 with 70 base and get it sliced for effectiveness, but this is still quite a heavy suit and certainly not under 400 HAM for non-human races to wear unbuffed
With this kind of suit, I go get it sliced and look for encumberance for a change. I find that in a suit of 9 pieces, on average 6-7 are encum sliced. It is likely with only 2 suits I will get a wearable suit with high resists in the most common PvP areas.
Vevy wrote:
May I misunderstand your problem...but you do realize since you're already using layers you're actually HURTING yourself by layering all those different types right?
If you can't layer stun then layer electric or acid only and then find a slicer...if you're hitting 65% base then you can, after enough slices, get a matching suit of 87% base...so why would you be concerned about getting 4 80% resists into the unsliceable special protections?
You're already triple layering so your HAMs are high anyway...if you exp your layers to4% baseand then add the rest into HAM, you'll end up with segsconsiderably lighter than what you're making now and you'll not only get "quad 80's" but you'll get 80% across the board
Not all people like high encumbrance armor, and a full set of this encumbrace sliced would be good for a lot of people, armor like this would be great if it were for the fact that smugglers had the option of what to slice, this stuff would be amazing and sell well.
But..Like you pointed out you can hurt yourself, I know I've had runs of a crate and on stuff like this and only 5get an encumbrance and 20get an effectiveness. 
The main problem now is armor isn't made by an armorsmith, its made by the slicer, we just gather and do a lot of work only to see it shafted or ok'd by the slice.
I think the crafting process itself is designed to prohibit that.
You're trying to get the best of both worlds and that goes against the basic premise of armor that you have to choose high resists or low enc.
I also do triple layered kinetic, 80% kin 66% base and the best slices I've gotten gets a suit down to low 400's ham. Now that'susing onlythe bare minimum point neccessary to hit 80% kinetic while still maxing the base...and then dumping the rest in HAM. And using 3 layers to reach 80% kinetic I've got ALOT of points left for HAM. From what I've been able to tell, that's about the lowest triple layered armor can go. My resources aren't perfect of course, so there's always a little more to squeeze out of it, but it's a good base to judge from.
The only way to get below 400 hams would then be to sacrifice the resists, and that would defeat your goal of quad 80's. I think you would have to exp all your layers and segs for max durability first, then whatever is left in base. I don't think quad 80's with ham under 400 is going to be a practical goal.
If good stun resources ever spawn again on Kauri I will probably try for the kinetic-energy-stun mix.
Cheerz,
Good idea I haven't ever tried anything like this, but it sounds like it could work. Problem I see with it is that at 65 base, you need 15% boost to get to that 80%. Even if you could get an amazing and boost that base to 66%, your layers are still 14% min. This is almost maxxed out, and would leave maybe 3 or 4 points for HAM if you're lucky. That puts ham at least at 10/10/10 per layer, which is like 30's across the board. Personally I stick with hams that are 3's and below for a total of 10's across the board. Last run HAM with this was 599/529/615 which was just barely sliceable (within reason) to under 400 for all 3. Point is, with the increased HAM you will see by going for the quad 80, you're lowering your chances of a suit worn without buffs by a LOT. that's adding 180 to each stat off the bat, which brings your suit to around 800's. to get under 400, that's a 50% slice. (granted I estimated quite high for simplicity, but even a 700 suit would need a 43% slice...) So if you're going for unbuffed armor, you should stick to Energy, Kinetic, and Elec as 80's and save on the base. (one kinetic and 2 energy which could split the % and thus have lower ham.. )
Lost my train of thought... sry.
Well, like I said, this is an experiment. I want to try something new.
It takes serious stockpile and feedback from people so far is positive. If nothing else it will give me something to stave of the triple layer boredom.And yes, I am trying to get the best of both words - by using the slicing process to my advantage. Either way, I will continue to make and sell tripled layered armour per market demand
You get most of your HAM reduction out of the layers anyway so you can still get a very low ham while maintaining the high base.
One of the biggest mistakes I see newer AS's make is assuming they have to max out the quality bar on their layers even after they've hit 4% base. I've heard the arguement that "there are fractions involved there..." and in my testing this is not true...the fractions have only seemed to play a role during exp'ing...once you assemble the layer it becomes 4% with no fractions.
i've made 3 layers with max quality (4% + the fractions), and 3 layers where I stopped on the last point needed to hit 4%...and both segs came out exactly the same base in the end.
What that means in terms of HAM then is if you're wasting those extra 3-4 exp points to max out the quality bar, thinking you're getting that last little boost...you're not and you're wasting 1/3 of your points.
I turn those extra 4 points into HAM reductions which amounts to a 40% drop in the ham on layers. Then when making the segs and the piece itself, I may get 1-2 additional points there for smaller reductions...but the layers are where the cream rises.
My server doesn't consider 80% Kinetic 66% Base as poor armor, in fact it's the most widely demanded armor of them all. Ubese is considered the grinding armor for those without money or the time to get buffed. My compo comes out in the 600's HAM and then after slicing in the low 400's, and I'm not sacrificing the base to get it. I can never seem to keep the stuff in stock either, evenat 475k a suit.
Vevy wrote:
You get most of your HAM reduction out of the layers anyway so you can still get a very low ham while maintaining the high base.
One of the biggest mistakes I see newer AS's make is assuming they have to max out the quality bar on their layers even after they've hit 4% base. I've heard the arguement that "there are fractions involved there..." and in my testing this is not true...the fractions have only seemed to play a role during exp'ing...once you assemble the layer it becomes 4% with no fractions.
i've made 3 layers with max quality (4% + the fractions), and 3 layers where I stopped on the last point needed to hit 4%...and both segs came out exactly the same base in the end.
What that means in terms of HAM then is if you're wasting those extra 3-4 exp points to max out the quality bar, thinking you're getting that last little boost...you're not and you're wasting 1/3 of your points.
I turn those extra 4 points into HAM reductions which amounts to a 40% drop in the ham on layers. Then when making the segs and the piece itself, I may get 1-2 additional points there for smaller reductions...but the layers are where the cream rises.
My server doesn't consider 80% Kinetic 66% Base as poor armor, in fact it's the most widely demanded armor of them all. Ubese is considered the grinding armor for those without money or the time to get buffed. My compo comes out in the 600's HAM and then after slicing in the low 400's, and I'm not sacrificing the base to get it. I can never seem to keep the stuff in stock either, evenat 475k a suit.
Sure, you can only make what people will buy. All I know is that for us, people who buy 80% kinetic composite want low HAM, and low means 500 preslice to them. Those who make that can sell it for 500-600k a suit, whereas those who make 80/68 kinetic are lucky to get 350k. Mostly, they have to preslice their pieces and sell what looks most attractive after slice.
As for the comment about layer % and hidden decimals, I have found that hidden decimals make a difference at every single stage of the crafting process. Even if your segments come out with the same base %, there may well be a hidden decimal there too that makes a difference on the final combine. If you do not see visible differences, that is more likely a function of the thresholds in your resources for segments and/or final combine.
For instance, when I am making elec layers, the threshold for 4% base (displayed) is 75% on the bar. I can max that bar at 84%. If I make 3 75% experimented layers, the segment is 31% base, and the final combine is 66% base (67% on some pieces). When I max all three layers to the 84% mark, the segment is 32% base, and the final combine is 70%.
Even when the segments read the same base %, the decimals still make a difference. On my kinetic segments, the base % is 25%. I have two possible amorphous gemstones for the layers - both produce layers that are 2% base, 1/1/1 HAM, and both types of layers produce 25% base segments. However, the small decimals in the gemstone mean that using the exact same materials in segment and final combine, one type of gemstone layer produces 63% base, the other 64%.
Hidden decimals are not a myth - they are fact. This occurs in base, HAM,and special protect - one of my competitors has resources that allow him to experiment to 81% or so on the stun protect. Mine allow 83% - both our stun layers read 12% stun. However, when combined, his produce 37% stun, mine produce 38%.
Now, I'm the first to admit that these differences are largely trivial. However, they mean a lot to me as far as maximising the science of crafting, and so these few % here and there mean a lot to me in that AS-geeky kind of way.
I would also question the value of that extra 1% base you're getting from the decimals, considering you're spending an extra 3 points per layer to max out the bar, 9 points per segments. In my case I have 4 extra points after hitting 4% base so that's 12 additional points per segment that I'm dumping into HAM.
Those extra 9 points per segment would amount to a HUGE HAM reduction whereas the extra 1% base is almost unnoticeable in the final piece.