Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Experiment to test the effect of amazing assembly on experimentation rolls
- I am 12 point armorsmith (+20 armorsmith experimentation)
- I have +27 in armorsmith assembly from tapes
- I have +20 force experimentation
- I tested using kinetic layers. I am using my best layer ingredients.
- I did this in a research city
The experimentation was done as follows. In order to maximize my data, I experimented one box at a time. I checked off whether it was a great or amazing (I had no other results). I only experimented the 2nd and 3rd rows (so the results only depended on OQ and SR, 50/50).
With amazing assembly:
I had a total of 15 amazing successes on experimentation, and 33 great successes on experimentation.
With great assembly:
I had a total of 29 amazing successes on experimentation and 55 great successes on experimentation.
WARNING extreme geekiness coming up! You have been warned!
Because I am counting events that have a low count rate, the uncertainty in my numbers should follow the rules for a Poisson distribution.. so the uncertainty in the counts is the square root of the counts. so:
Amazing assembly/Amazing experimentation: 15/48 +/- 3.8/48 -> 31 +/- 8% chance
Amazing assembly/Great experimentation: 69 +/- 12% chance
Great assembly/Amazing experimentation: 35 +/- 6% chance
Great assembly/Great experimentation: 65 +/- 9% chance
Conclusions:
Although the uncertainty in my results is pretty high, which could be improved by more data, it seems like the following is true:
- With my setup i get amazing experiment as a result about 1/3 of the time
- The assembly roll has no effect on the experimentation roll
- Furia is a geek.
EdOWar wrote:
How many total experiments (i.e. layers) did you do? Of those, how many had Amazing Success on assembly, and how many had Great Success on assembly? A little more detail might be helpful for us to better understand the results.
Thanks,
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Meplorium wrote:
N value on assemblies is way to low.
Yep
Getting an amazing success doesn't mean that some internal experimentation variable was triggered.
Not sure what you mean, but i think that's what i was trying to test.
You could have gotten a lower complexity or more slockets or even sometimes higher values, though that is rarely seen on a layer outside a crit success, or simply got nothing at all.
Well yeah but whatever it was, it was an amazing success on assembly. We just wanted to know if that mattered.
Not sure this tells us anything other than what happened on your few assembly attempts for one layer type.
More data would help but at least we know that if there is an effect it's pretty small.
What would the stats be if you used cake and port?
kneelocked wrote:
heh, let me put this bug in your ear...
What would the stats be if you used cake and port?
If that cake got you a critical success, higher than the resources would normally allow. You still get that roll reguardless of cake or skill mods for force skills. The question is, what does amazing assemblies afford you? Many don't think it is just nothing. You can get an amazing success on experimentation while expermenting on HAM cost on layers. Not all HAM cost go down in the same way. Condition may not go up as much in another amazing success. The system goes a bit deep so you can't take it on face value.
RelicOMO wrote:
Furthermore, since the complexity goes up with each successive experimentation roll, the chances of an amazing success are lower with each successive experimentation attempt on the same layer. This means that not all experimentation attempts are equal - they are only equal to other exp attempts at the same item with the same complexity.
Well at the very least by ignoring this i am hoping it averages out over a bunch of tries.
In any case, +Assembly is not valuable for improving the assembly success - I really don't think great or amazing assembly makes any difference. +Assembly is the skill that is rolled when determining how successful your experimentation attempts are. It is not dependent on Experimentation - that skill determines how many experimentation points you have and nothing else. Assembly is the skill that determines how many amazing experimentations you have, not experimentation.
Don't take my word for it if you don't want to - try it. Remove various of your crafting clothes to give you as much Experimentation as possible with as low Assembly as possible, and test it. Also note that there is no difference between the results of those who have +120 experimentation (12 pts) and +125 experimentation (12 pts). There is, however, a difference between those who have +120 assembly and +125 assembly. Reading the threads that have come out since this patch, I'm honestly a little surprised as to how many crafters don't know this.
If that is true it's pretty astounding... I had never had that impression myself. Wouldn't that make bespin port worthless and pyrollian cake awesome, since cake affects assembly roll? And why does cake get used up after assembly... or maybe you think cake and port do what they are supposed to but the base mods are what you think.
Might be worth taking some data on. Then again maybe someone else wants to take data.
Message Edited by Baccarat on 03-02-2005 02:02 AM
Baccarat wrote:
If that is true it's pretty astounding... I had never had that impression myself. Wouldn't that make bespin port worthless and pyrollian cake awesome, since cake affects assembly roll? And why does cake get used up after assembly... or maybe you think cake and port do what they are supposed to but the base mods are what you think.
Might be worth taking some data on. Then again maybe someone else wants to take data.
Exactly right - cake and port do what they are supposed to, but the base mods are not what you expect them to be. FS crafting mods also do what they are supposed to - Assembly affects the assembly roll only, Experimentation affects the experimentation roll. But believe me - Assembly skill is what determines how successful your experimentation rolls are.
I was a 12 pt AS for a long time before I was +125 Assembly. I have played withother crafting professions that are 12 pts yet do not yet have +125 assembly - the difference is palpable. With +125 Assembly I can expect amazing successes with remarkable regularity, and hardly ever anything like a moderate. Without +125 assembly, the amazings are few and far between, and moderates much more common, particularly at higher complexities. Apparently not many people know this - even those who considered themselves 'uber' crafters. Take advantage of it and buy assembly tapes at the lower prices while they remain ignorant.