Armorsmith Archive
Thread: My thoughts on the CU... A different Viewpoint
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Tarwin-Cor
Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:02 pm
#1
A recent quote in the forums got me thinking... This is the quote... and here are my responses...
Quote:
Combat Level System:
I am in the process of testing this myself, and although armor works the effect seems to be neglible compared to the mitigators. Basically you can grind all the way without any need for armor. I am sure you are all aware that grinders are our prime source of income. You do not have much choice when it comes to what to grind on as you will die pretty quickly if you try on something a few levels higher than you. Still in testing though, they seem to be tweaking the numbers.
My response...
I have an interesting assumption... Maybe the devs thought of this and maybe they did not... What I see from the AS profession Post-CU is this... We no longer make just Comp Suits/Ubese Suits in bulk for people grinding now... Instead, we make armor customized to finished template characters... When players finish their template and they are ready to tackle the DWB or the Geo caves with their guildmates, they strap on their customized armor and so at it...
Here is my reasoning...
1. People in combat have noticed (and devs/corr. have agreed) that when in a group; wearing armor actually helps when fighting harder mobs....
2.We all agree that grinding characters will not really need armor because it does not really help them...
3. Resource requirements for armor makes it less fessible to mass produce, and factory time increases mean longer wait time...
4. Addition of components that make the armor look different...
5.Making different professions wear different armor...
Ok... Now, I agree that the challange is not really there anymore in terms of crafting... But like some have pointed out... The CU is supposed to focus on combat, and a crafting upgrade will follow... So, we just might be our complexitiy back...
The resource requirements are higher and more elaborate... Which means people will make less armor, but sell it for more...
On one hand I see this is not good, because I will sell less suits of armor... Yet, I will sell suits for more money... And, no, beginning players will not be able to afford armor post-CU... But like reported, it really doesn't help them anyway... The people that benefit are finished template users, who typically have money to spend...
I think that it is not as drastic as some make it out to be... Granted, I am unhappy with a lot of things... But, I think we need to sit back and absorb some of the information that we are getting...
The point of the CU is to make people rely more on each other... and want to connect the community as a whole... how cool is it currently to make someone a set of RIS armor and have them try it on when you are done... They have picked their colors, and spent a long time waiting for RIS... And BAMMM you finish making it... They run around showing all their friends... That is why I am an AS... because of that one-on-one interactions that I get on special orders...
Armorsmith post-CU, as I am starting to see it, it more about this... Some guy finishes his template and comes to you... an AS... to make him a custom set of armor... and you do so... he is extremely happy, and runs around and shows his friends... that is a cool thing...
Plus, I see armorsmiths making the same person multiple suits to match what they are fighting... you know... DWB has XXXX types of attacks so I need armor to resist XXXX... but in a couple weeks, my guild is going to the Geo caves, and they use XXXX so I need XXXX armor... That is a cool thing to... It makes people think about what type of armor they will need before going out...
Granted, I have my own complaints... But, I think that this will be VERY cool, once we get into it... (and hope they fix a couple things)... I, for one, am not giving up... I am actually a little happy that I get to make more custom suits... this will be very cool... =)
Just my thoughts...
Tarwin / Girgi on Corbantis
Vastar
Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:26 pm
#2
That sounds a little over romanticized, Tarwin-Cor. I've worked pretty hard at getting to the point of being able to load my factories with the resources I've stockpiled and nothing else unless I decide to. This system seems to remove that choice for me (excluding the option of quitting SWG or Armorsmithing, of course). It's still the best positive spin I've seen put on the CURB though. So, thanks for the refreshing viewpoint. 
Tarwin-Cor
Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:38 pm
#3
I am in the same boat my friend... =) I have over 1,000 stacks of 100k resources in uber resources waiting to be made into armor... and I have over 3 million units of wooly hide... =) I worked hard to get all that and more...
Tarwin / Girgi
Tarwin-Cor
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:22 pm
#4
another thought...
The people that really will quitAS are those that have an AS character to make themselves money... They log their AS on a couple times a week to load up factories and stock vendors... Then they log out and play their jedi or whatever other character they have... (I also do this on occasion with my jedi =)..)
Now, what I see is... we are becoming a little more like WS... there is so much more to do in terms of custom weapons for WS... any major WS does not think of mass producing weapons... Instead, they get uber ackley bones, and cubes, and scythe schematics, ect... they make 10 weapons or so... get them sliced... and have fun... lots of major WS craft a lot of their weapons by hand...
That is us... instead of just RIS ( and some pieces of mando), we will hand craft a lot of different stuff... get loot to make the armor look different, or be better... let's face it... how many times a week do we get asked; "I looted these rancor segments/fammba hides/kimo scales... what are they worth?"... and we laugh 99 percent of the time when they tell us the stats...
Now... armor is more custom... with loots that make sense and make our armor different then the next... =)
That is awesome... =)
Tarwin / Girgi of Corbantis
Yezabel
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:32 pm
#5
Don't wait for a second CU, just for crafters... at least in months.
There are not reasons to think SOE is going to work on an CU unless a massive leave of players (most of them crafters) happens. That's why SOE is doing this so called Combat Upgrade, to try to stop accounts drop... unless what I think is that what SOE is doing is try to hook up a new market of teens not caring at all about current players community.
There are not reasons to think SOE is going to work on an CU unless a massive leave of players (most of them crafters) happens. That's why SOE is doing this so called Combat Upgrade, to try to stop accounts drop... unless what I think is that what SOE is doing is try to hook up a new market of teens not caring at all about current players community.
AtonuTragona
Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:46 pm
#6
Interesting post, I certainly appreciate the thought and effort you put into it. I'll admit WS is fun.
One question sticks out in my mind though. After the Combat nerf, what kind of armor do you see selling for 5+ million per piece on a regular basis?
As you mentioned, WS make uber weapons, with uber loot and charge lots of money. RIS is expensive pre-nerf, but that is only because it is a collectors item. It appears that armor will be hard capp'd at around 60% base (pre-nerf language here). The newly implemented "law of diminishing returns" for the nerf, also dictates that loot will not help to make uber armor. Loot for armor will only make really bad armor a bit better. I'm just not seeing the market for uber armor
Tarwin-Cor
Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:48 pm
#7
Well... to your point... I doubt that post CU you will see a lot of weapons selling for 5 million+... People are already reporting that there is not much difference between a weapon that use to sell for 1 million, and a weapon that use to sell for 20 million+... High prices for uber weapons will drop... just a thought though... =)
Tarwin / Girgi of Corbantis
linusboarder
Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:54 pm
#8
I agree Tarwin. I am glad to see another AS excited for the CURB. And i think a lot of our issues will be adressed with the non combat upgrade (Which the Devs have said is happening after the CURB). I think you make a lot of solid points.
Circe' Pojia
Thorkahn
Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:41 pm
#9
Lets make one thing clear.
After the FU, I mean CU, SOE is not going to come back and add complexity to the crafting.
The direction they are headed will result is less complicted crafting and less of it. I think the best we can hope for is that all crafting will become like Artisan. IE, no skill tapes really needed.
The FU, I mean CU, is intended to reduce the games OH and they are not going to come back and then increase that OH by adding complexity to crafting.
The only real goal of the CU is to reduce game OH and server load to make room for all the new players that will flood to SWG after ROTS is released.
This is about making money, not making any of us happy customers.
Tarwin-Cor
Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:44 pm
#10
Do you really think that an expansion or a new movie is going to cause mass purchasing of this game? This game has been out a very long time... This is the question that you have to ask yourself... Is it about new players, or is it about players that have already tried the game in the past, but cancelled their accounts because of whatever reason...
To be honest... This is why I think that the developers have decided to do the CU...
People have come into the game and played... They have left for a lot of reasons but here are a few reasons that I have heard from my friends...
1. I cannot have a successful crafting profession in this game unless I am a power player with multiple accounts...
2. I cannot loot good things in this game because of all the power players and their guilds loot ganking all the stuff with their exceptional weapons...
3. It just got boring... All I did was try to get money to get buffed, and find a group to hunt with... and both were hard for me to get...
Now... Us vetern players (I would say that if you are actually reading the forums you are a vet), know that these reasons are not really "good" reasons... We leave for things like this...
1. They are making the crafting profession that we love be too simple so that anyone can do it...
2. My expectional weapons and now being turned into a little better the average weapons...
3. I have to get into a group just to do anything in this game after the CU...
Let's take a look at this for a second... How many veterens are in this game (people from the first 6 months let's say)... Vs. How many people are in this game that are new (6 months old or less)...
I am sure that we would see a much higher percentage of players that are new vs. vets... So, when looking at concerns... you have to look at a higher percentage of people to please... Also, by looking at the newer players concerns and fixing those... you can help your chances of retaining new players in the future... Also, this might mean that the power players will eventually leave... But in the eyes of the developers (business people in the end), their goal is to retain new people... Because eventually all veterans will leave the game anyway... I mean, how long can we play the game... Not forever..
Anyway... After the CU, veterans will still have an upper hand on the newer players... We are complaining about complexity of crafting... and the fact that our resources are "worthless"... I know this guy who has been an AS for about 4 months... He has nowhere near the resources that I have.. After the CU, we compare resources, and I will still produce better products... Now, if those products are really that much better or not... I am not sure until it hits live...
Like I said before.... I believe that the goal of the developers, business aside, is to make people interdependent on others to play... By creating a community of players, they ensure a couple of things... One, if you like to play a specific profession you can... and have fun with it because you will interact with people more... and Two, the people that want to fight hard stuff and do cool things (DWB cave, ect), they can too... In a group...
The major complaints from people are this (after a bit of translation) -> I was uber before the CU, and now I am just a bit better then average...
Why is it that people have this urge to be the best in the game... to get all the loot... to have all the exceptional weapons... to have all the money... who cares... even if you had all the stuff in the game... and could solo the DWB... would, in the end, you really have that much fun... I would say no... I would say... the reasons that I play this game is simple... I have created my own community... a circle of friends that I love to be with and talk to... I am sure that you guys can agree...
By making people have to have 40 million credit exp. suits, have uber resources that takes 2 years to put together, and by making them have multiple accounts just to do stuff that they like to do... That is not in the spirit of why we play... and it is not in the spirit of the game... We want to have friends in the game, and play with our friends... and the developers want new players to make friends and join a PC and a guild... They want newer players to feel this fraturnal bound that a lot of the veterans already feel... Loot gankers with exceptional weapons, and having to spend years collecting resources is pointless... That is not in the spirit of the game...
Being a part of a group is... I would say that they could nerf the whole game into one profession, and make us all weak... and if my friends remained in the game... so would I... that is what is cool about all this...
So, I say this... Bring on the CU... Let's get more new players in here... I want more people, so that I can make even more friends to joke and laugh and have a good time... because in the end... that is why I log on everytime... to have fun with my friends... =)
Tarwin / Girgi of Corbantis
Vastar
Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:04 pm
#11
You do not need two accounts to be a succesful crafter. Some people choose to throw off the balance of the game but you certainly don't have to. Our experimentation suits and resources are part of what keeps the profession enjoyable over time. If someone doesn't enjoy those types of challenges, there are a variety of other crafting professions to pick from. Everyone doesn't need to be an Armorsmith for SWG to be fun, c'mon people.
Why would a player want to be an Armorsmith but quit because it's too hard when other easier crafting professions are available? The only thing I can think of is that they're after the credits. Well, christ, do they think Armorsmithing would be so lucrative if it was as easy as Tailoring?
Why would a player want to be an Armorsmith but quit because it's too hard when other easier crafting professions are available? The only thing I can think of is that they're after the credits. Well, christ, do they think Armorsmithing would be so lucrative if it was as easy as Tailoring?
HairlessWook
Tue Apr 19, 2005 4:22 pm
#12
Im new to Master AS, love the trade. Furthermore, everything I craft is by hand with the exception of segs, cloth and reinforced fiber. This gives me more of a connection with my armor. My enjoyment comes from making loot based armor, tru custom works...I'd rather create a dozen Rolls Royces than a thousand Fords but this is my opinion. Everyone has Stun composite not evryone has Krayt or Ackley enhanced composite. I hope CU brings more custom works into play...
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