Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Suggestions for composite armor customers...Layman's Terms

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 8:42 am
#1

I have been a master armorsmith on Naritus for some time now, and I would like to input my thoughts on the variety of composite variants that can be made. I have relied heavily on Jaato Waal's suggestions and data and feel that I have connected well with my customers, and am giving them what they want.


If you are an "armor user," I am hoping you will find the following information helpful in your quest to be outfitted. I'm trying to keep numbers and equations out of the mix, and to put everything in layman's terms. Hehe...some of the dissertations here twist even my mind around, and I work with the stuff every day. Enjoy...


First of all...


I have classified my composite creations into 4 categories based primarily on total encumberance (HAM):


Category 1 -

- The lightest category

- You should be able to wear "Cat 1" armor without the use of encumberance slicing, spices, or medical buffs

- HAM Average (for the total suit) - 405 / 350 / 415

- My personal lowest (all crafted parts...no loot parts or enhancers) - 402 / 345 / 411 - 38% Base


Category 2 -

- Some encumberance slicing should be enough to make this armor wearable withoutspices or medical buffs

- "Some" = at least 3 or 4 pieces with an encumberance result

- HAMRange:

Light - 480 / 405 / 490

Heavy - 525 / 450 / 535


Category 3 -

- A full spread of encumberance slicing will probably make this armor wearable

- If you're going for non-spice/buff, buy 3 sets and make 1 set out ofthe best encumberance slices

-You may need at least spice to wear this armor

- HAM Range:

Light - 570 / 495 / 580

Heavy - 615 / 540 / 625


Category 4 -

- If you max your secondaries and have fantastic encumberance slice results, youMIGHT be able to wear it un-aided

- Most likely you will need spices and/or medical buffs to wear this armor

- HAM Range:

Light - 850 / 775 / 875

Heavy - 940 / 875 / 950


The HAM totals I have posted are based on sets I have made. You will probably find a much wider range out there, but this at least gives you a start. I know that most people look at the resists before they look at anything else. This mind-set should be avoided at all costs. In most cases, any armorsmith can push their resists to about the same level on a given server. The difference between quality armor and lesser armor is seen not in the base scores, but in the HAM totals. A master armorsmith using skill tapes, excellent tools, excellent resources, and sound techniques will have a few experimentation points left over for HAM reduction, even after base has been maxed. Take away any of those conditions, and you will see a significant increase in encumberance for the armor. Low HAM is a good indication of quality workmanship with quality materials. Accept no substitute!


I will reply to this message with specific variants I have been making...more to follow...



Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

Faded_One
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:01 am
#2

Well done... I have been trying to catch up to the armor you create.I can honestly say you make some of the best armor on the server and are hard to match, but with every spawn I get a little closer


In regards to the various categories. How often are Cat 1's requested? I imagine the base would be in the mid 30's to low 40's for that low of HAM.





Colonel Faded One / Isce One Master Armorsmith (Current Inventory)
RAID Mall * Mos Quito,Tatooine (-3355 -6341)
Light Infantry Armor (200k): 80% Kinetic 64% Base 548/476/552
Corvette Composite (200k): 80% Energy/Kinetic/Elect 8%Stun 68% Base 914/852/941
480-BEEK Turret Killer Armor(200k): 80% Blast/Elect/Energy/Kinetic 67% Base 924/855/946
Stun Suit (200k/350k): 25% Stun 70% Base 926/859/940 / 40% Stun 67% Base 937/863/949
Ubese Armor (100k Black/ White/Pink): 76% Kinetic 16% Base 313/371/426

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:11 am
#3

"Tank" Composite Armor (80%+ Base after effect slicing)


There are a large number of customers who are only concerned with getting the highest base resistances possible on their suit of armor. HAM is not a concern, because they plan to be buffed all the time. If you are looking for armor that has 90% base resistance potential, I offer these three suggestions:


*Note* - Your main problem with adding layers, is that any layered resistance becomes one of the "Special Protection" resistances, which cannot be sliced higher. The crafting "cap" is set at 80% (only effect slicing can raise a resistance higher than 80%), so if I use kinetic layers, for example, and get kinetic to 80%, ...that's it. Kinetic is "special" now. You will never get a higher kinetic score, no matter the slice result.


Option 1) Heavy base armor made with stun layers


Composite armor is normally vulnerable to stun damage. Triple-layering with stun is probably your best choice. It doesn't move a base resist to special, and it adds stun protection. The problem is that stun layer ingredients are very specific.It may not be possible to make quality stun layers, depending on what resources have spwaned in your galaxy. Also...stun ingredientsare "gated" so that achieving a low encumberance result is pretty much impossible (not a problem for you, of course).


#1 goal here...get the highest base possible, so you have a better chance of getting 90% base with your slice. Resist the temptation to max stun. You cannot max stun AND base resistances on your layers, so max the base first, and then put what you have left into stun. Hopefully, your stun resistance will be at least 25%.


My most recent attempt yielded: 80% Electricity, 27% Stun, 68% Base, 936 / 866 / 948 Total HAM. Sadly, it's very hard to get 68% base sliced to 90%, but high 80's is certainly possible. I believe that 69-71% base armors are being made on some of the other galaxies...it just depends on the materials availiable.


Option 2) Heavy base armor made with electricity layers


Since electricity is already a "special protection", you're not losing it from effect slice potential by using electricity layers. It was lost to begin with. The layer concept is pretty much the same. Make electricity layers with as high a base resistance as possible. This doesn't sound as good as using stun layers, since you're getting no stun protection, but depending on your galaxies' resources, it may be possible to get base 70% comp armor using electricity layers, where you wouldn't be able to with stun layers. Again...it just depends on the materials availiable.


Option 3) Heavy base armor made with other layer types


You can use the above tactic with other layer types, but whatever type you use, remember that that resistance will shift out of base and into special. Try this, perhaps, with cold or blast layers, since they are much less desirable resistance types anyway.





Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:25 am
#4

"Stun Paranoia" Composite Armor (Maximum stun protection)


First...consider this:


Do you really want a full suit made this way? ...or just the helm?


It is theoretically possible to make composite armor with 45% stun resistance. However, that is with perfect ingredients, and you are bound to the randomness of resource shifting. It is most likely only possible to make 37-42% stun resistant composite armor in your galaxy. In Naritus, the highest I have seen so far is 39%. Someone may be beating me out there, but for now, I'm assuming that's the best you're gonna get until better resources come along.


This is another "Cat 4" armor variant. Stun layers are just plain heavy! Your armorsmith will have a coice for any remaining experimentation points...lower HAM or raise base. Since it's "Cat 4," I really don't think HAM reduction with those points will make much of a difference. You're probably better off trying to squeeze a little more base resistance into the layers.


I have never made a full suit of this setup, but I have made many helms this way. My most recent attempt yielded: 80% Electricity, 39% Stun, 64% Base, 80 / 78 / 310 HAM. As you can see, the difference between this and the "Tank" variant I madeis 4% base and 12% stun. You have to decide for yourself what is most important. Both are pretty effective setups.



Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:39 am
#5

"Doc" Composite Armor (For all you low HAM lovers out there)


I must admit, I had a lot of fun making these sets. This is the only set of armor I have made that falls into "Cat 1." No layers were used (even 0/0/0 layers have decimal values you can't see, which add to the HAM). I simply made the lightest composite armor I possibly could.


Myattempt yielded: 46% Electricity,38% Base, 402 / 345 / 411 Total HAM. I know 38% doesn't raise many eyebrows, but imagine how low that HAM could go with some good slice results. Add in one of the new IMP Prototype PSG's, and you get a Doc with a fair amount of staying power. (BTW, I'm hitting 47% base on the Imp Prototypes)


Sadly, there has been very little interest in these sets. In my opinion there are too many tanks out there who care nothing for HAM. I made a run of 40 of these sets, and still have 25 left in the crates...thinking about getting them all sliced to see how low I can get them.





Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:51 am
#6

Unlayered Composite Armor (Getting back to our roots)


Now we're crossing into "Cat 2" armor. This is the same as "Doc" armor, but instead of maxing encumberance reduction and putting the rest into base; now we're maxing base and putting the rest into encumberance reduction. Just about every armorsmith starts out making this variant of composite. Mymost recent attempt yielded: 62% Electricity,54% Base, 482 / 408 / 490 Total HAM. Grab one of these sets, go get at least 3 or 4 pieces encumberance sliced, and you should be able to wear it easily without spice or buffs. It's good, solid, "accross the board" protection, but not "uber" in any category.




Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:06 am
#7

"PvP Augmentation" of Unlayered Composite Armor (Heavier, but still "Cat 2")


Ever say to yourself: "Gosh...I'm getting hit in the chest a lot with heat damage!" ...or: "Zowee...My legs keep getting hit by energy damage!"? Chances are you're starting to notice the trends you encounter in PvP.


The first customer-centered change I made to my armorcreations was to try to help out the PvP'ers. I must give full credit to Jaato Waals and his armor guide for this one. Fantastic work Jaato. The idea is to pick out some of the more common PvP attacks and attack locations, and layer those pieces of armor accordingly, leaving the other pieces unlayered to avoid adding too much encumberance to the full set. It's a very good armor strategy, and vaulted my popularity in Naritus 6 or 7 months ago...ahhhhhhh...the armorsmith who cares!


Back then, the idea was to layer the helm for acid (BH Eyeshots), the chest for heat (Pistoleer FWG5's), and the legs for energy (Carbineer Legshots). Keeping the HAM down meant using lightweight layers (2/2/2 or 3/3/3 layer encumberance), and usually resulted in a fair increase in the targetted resistance. My most recent attempt yielded Helms with 80% Acid, 80% Electricity, 63% Base; Chests with 80% Heat, 80% Electricity, 63% Base; Legs with 80% Energy, 80% Electricity, 63% Base; and all the other pieces with 62% Electricity and 54% Base (basic unlayered setup). Unsliced, the full suit weighs in at 517 / 434 / 520. They're really good suits, given a few good encumberance slices, that anyone should be able to wear without spices or buffs...but if you plan on using a lot of special attacks, these suits push the limit a bit too hard to fight without chemical or medical "assistance."


*Note* - I never figured out if the boots were hit in "Leg Shots". You might consider adding energy layers to the boots as well.





Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:44 am
#8

"Kinetic be gone" Composite Armor (Or any other targetted base resistance) - "Cat 3" Composite Armor


Boy do I sell a lot of "Kinetic" sets and "Energy" sets. They fly off of my vendor whenever I have any for sale.


The idea is simple. You use 3 "encumberance layers" targetted for the resistance you want to max.(example...kinetic) There will be a significant increase in the total suit HAM, but hopefully you'll get 80% resistance on your targetted "special."


*Note* - Remember that kinetic now is now a "special protection,"and is longer affected by effect slices. 80% is as high as it will EVER get.


My most recent attempt yielded: 80% Kinetic, 80% Electricity,64% Base, 577 / 539 / 592 Total HAM. Making it the same way using Energy layers instead, I came up with: 80% Energy, 80% Electricity, 63% Base, 611 / 497 / 589 Total HAM. Here we can see the difference in material qualities for specific layers. Notice the 1-point drop in base for the energy set, as well as the difference in HAM results. I'm not sure why Health went up and Action went down...any takers out there?


Now...here's the point I have to keep reminding customers of. If you have a kinetic-layered piece of composite sliced, the kinetic score will not change since it is now a "special protection." Sadly...that bears saying again. If you have a kinetic-layered piece of composite sliced, the kinetic score will not change since it is now a "special protection." Obviously, if kinetic is your only concern, and you intend to use one of these sets...it would probably be best to go for encumberance slices. You might luck out and get a set you can wear without spices or buffs. However, it is interesting to note that a very high effect slice might actually raise the base resists to more than 80%. In that case, kinetic would not be the dominant protection, and you might find yourself wishing you had purchased an acid, blast, heat, energy, or cold layered set...to keep kinetic in the base. Of course, if you're trying for 80%+ armor, I really think you're looking at the wrong variant. This armor variant is at its' best when all the pieces are encumberance sliced, and you can simply rely on the 80% protection that already exists inthe "special protection" category.




Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:48 am
#9

rats!!!


The fourth paragraph should read: "...and is no longer affected..."


Anyone out there teach me how to edit?


More to follow...gotta take a break for a while


Stay tuned for Dual Max Layered armor!!!





Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Mon Mar 29, 2004 10:59 am
#10

also...in the "stun paranoia" section, please edit "coice" to "choice"


Hehe...thanks for the comments Faded


Cat 1 armor is interesting...refreshingly different, but unprofitable.


To all ye out there...what is the lightest crafted set you've been able to make?



Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

CharPrime
Mon Mar 29, 2004 12:15 pm
#11

i made 50% base 58% elec non layered composite without any uber resources, just 2nd/3rdtier stuff. The ham is around 460/420/504.alot of people can use unbuffed or with few encumb slices. low cost armor






Vendor location kor vella -2931 1721.
Drop of vendor location kor vella -2897 1698

RIS quest and set completed on 6-12-04,

RonneLykell
Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:13 am
#12

"Dual Max-layered" Composite Armor - "Cat 4" - Here's where it really starts getting fun!


Several months ago, someone asked me if it would be possible to make a helm with 80% acid AND 80% energy resistance. I laughed and told them "no way." I had only recently figured out how to push one resist to 80%, let alone two. Well...I was wrong. It can be done, depending on the resources your server has spouted.


Here's how I did it:


Three different Layers...

Acid Layer - Maxed for Acid, Rest of experimentation goes into Base

Energy Layer - Maxed for Energy, Rest of experimentation goes into Base

Stun Layer - Maxed for Base, Rest of experimentation goes into Stun or HAM reduction

* I opted for HAM reduction...a few more stun points really aren't going to make a lot of difference...4% raised to9 or 10%

With a little less HAM, there is a better chance this set can be sliced well enough to wear unbuffed


Assuming your resources are good enough, these layers have barely enough "oomph" to max Acid AND Energy in the same piece of armor. Of course, you can use any two resistance types you want, but my first attempt was Acid and Energy. I ended up with helms that looked like this:80% Acid, 80% Energy, 80% Electricity, 4% Stun, 66% Base, 70 / 68 / 297 HAM.


Myfirst thought here, was that it's now possible to make Energy/Kinetic sets of armor. They're particularly good for someone who spends a lot of time non-PvP. My results were: 80% Energy, 80% Kinetic, 80% Electricity, 4% Stun, 66% Base, 858 / 784 / 883 Total HAM. These could be sliced to wear without buffs or spice, but would take quite a few attempts to assemble a full encumberance set low enough.


Once I got the hang of "dual layering," I was off again trying to make a good PvP specific set. After a lot of polling and emailing to fellow gamers on Naritus, I started mapping out a full set of armor (and then some). I decided that it would be a good idea to have multiple helms set up for different resists, to cover the wide variety of head shots out there. I also decided that a second chest piece would be a good idea, since they seem to wear out so quickly compared to the rest of the set. Here is the set I came up with:


Helms -

Acid/Kinetic

Acid/Energy

Heat/Kinetic

Max Stun (39% for Naritus)


Chest -

Heat/Kinetic (x2)


Pants -

Energy/Kinetic


Boots -

Energy Kinetic


Arm Pieces and Gloves -

Heat/Kinetic


Do a little math...the full set is made up of 13 pieces. All of the pieces have 80% on two resists, 80% on electricity,4% on Stun, anda 66% Base (except for the Stun helm, of course). The full set weighs in at around 868 / 796 / 881, depending on which helm you are using...making it a fairly lightweight "Cat 4" set of armor. I'm holding back 20 sets for slicing to see if I can make a couple wearable without buffs or spice. We'll see how it goes.


The biggest question with this setup comes with the slicing. Most of my customers rush out hoping to get uber effect slices on their suits, regardless of what the armor was intended to be used for. All that matters seems to be high resist numbers.Is an effect slice really that helpful when the two targetted resists cannot be further raised? The potential for the base to go higher than the specials is pretty high, so why not dual-layer cold and blast, so that the good resists can go up with the base? Again...I feel that if that is what you are after, you should stick with the stun-layered / high base variants. You'll get better stun protection, not to mention a higher base score.


I personally think it would be incredible to be able to wear one of these sets without medical or chemical augmentation. That seems to me to be more along the lines of quality armorsmithing than just punching the Base effect button over and over again...heedless of the encumberance it incurs.



Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

RonneLykell
Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:28 am
#13

Well...that's pretty much it for crafted composite variants as I've been making them. Simply put...all composite armor is not the same. SOE may have some big problem issues they have failed to resolve with armorsmithing, but I must say their composite armor scheme allows for a lot of room to "play" with the armor setups. Here, I feel, is one case where they have shone through.


I could go on with potential regarding loot components, but think this is enough information for now to give you some ideas of what to look for. I'll give you some loot component tips, though...


Krayt Scales - Best used with Ubese armor to get Kinetic to 80%...also I hear you can stabilize the stat-shift in RIS with them...any truth to this? I haven't tried yet.


Janta Hides - Fantastic when used with Stun-layered "Tank" Composite. They can very easily get the crafted base to 70-73%, which makes 90%'s much easier to slice.


Nightsister Shards - Very good at bringing encumberance down, but not nearly as neat to play with as Nightsister Layers.


Nightsister Layers - You can't have enough of these! They are really a blast to work with in composite construction, but it takes at least 75 (in groups of 5 or more with same serial number) to craft a full set, and you're better off getting extras to cover crit fails and less-than-favorable results in experimentation. YOU CAN USE 3 OF THESE PER COMP SEGMENT, BUT ONLY ONE SHARD PER COMP SEGMENT. I have been visited countless times by people who flip-flopped it. They come up with tons of shards and very few layers...doh!


Krayt Composite Armor Segments - Very easy to work with, and I've been able to make some very excellent armor with them. Look for base effectiveness of 30% or higher.


Rancor Hides - They add a lot of HAM, but are similar to Janta Hides...even better at raising Heat...except that Heat becomes a special...80% Max


Rancor Padded Armor Segments - Lot of potential here...haven't realy nailed it down yet since they only recently fixed the bug that was preventing us from being able to use them.


Good luck with your armor use...


Remember to look at the HAM when judging quality



Ronne Lykell (Naritus)
~ Master Armorsmith (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly, +25 Repair) ~
apyrus\">~ Master Artisan (+25 Exp, +25 Assembly), Master Merchant ~
apyrus\">~ FS Crafting Mastery (4400) ~
~ Vendor WP: Corsica, Corellia (6899, 4551) ~

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