Armorsmith Archive
Thread: BRAINSTORMING: Fighting for Encum Exp is a lost cause lets think of something new.
Page 1 of 3
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:37 am
#1
Guys, I want this first off to be a POSITIVE thread - so keep all complaints, whining and crying out of it. For the sake of intelligent discussion, I ask that the people here blatantly IGNORE anyone who does whine, and continue on as the post never happened, even if you are personally provoked.
Now then.
It is my belief that the system as the devs have laid out works great in terms of balance and design, with the exception of 1 flaw - we now have only one crafting line, which stifles armor creativity and creative choice. We now know that the Devs are NOT going to put encumberance experimenting back in as that would too much unbalance the game, and make new crafters obsolete again - I know some of you top dogs hate that, but deal with it - it is the reality of the CURB, and better overall for the health of the game.
Therefore, I propose we brainstorm ideas that we could then take to the devs as ways to make our armors unique, make 12 points mean something, and also keep in mind balance of the game, and the fact that a 12 point smith should not have an overwhelming advantage over a 10 point smith.
To kick it off, I have a couple of ideas to discuss:
1) Ying-Yang effect: On the final experimentation, we get to experiment on any layer in the armor, with the opposing layer decreasing as the one we select increases. Example: We put 6 points into Kinetic and Cold - the result is that both of those are raised by 6 points, while energy and heat are lowered by 6 points. Method around this: Experiment on opposing layers at the same time with equal points, and both will raise, but the difficulty is also raised.
2) With the aforementioned idea, I also propose the crafting system of success and failure be made so that every experiment raises the value you are trying to raise, but the amount raised is tied directly to the result. Example: A moderate failure will only raise the points by a marginal amount. An amazing success will raise the points by a very substantial amount, but still within the confines of the balance. Also, experimenting on opposite layers at once (as detialed in example 1)decreases the chance of a great or amazing success.
I think with these ideas, all crafters can compete, and with the different layers and challenges they pose, it brings us as crafters all new armor challenges to replace the old ones we will no longer have, and we will be able to make armor in a variety of different ways, keeping the customizability.
Thoughts? Have ideas of your own?
Remember, this is a place to be constructive, not to b!tch. Comment only on valid ideas presented, or present your own valid ideas, keeping in mind the old system is gone, no amount of whining will bring it back, and movingnew ideasforward to keep this thread progressing.
DarkainHellfire
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:39 am
#2
I really wish we could experiment on the hindrances of the armor, so we could make some GOOD armor without enormous hindrances..that's all I wish on. that and being able to experiment on condition.
Message Edited by DarkainHellfire on 04-12-2005 12:40 PM
UmmonPrime
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:41 am
#3
I always thought that was the original idea. Really liked that idea of trying to "balance" out protection.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
1) Ying-Yang effect: On the final experimentation, we get to experiment on any layer in the armor, with the opposing layer decreasing as the one we select increases. Example: We put 6 points into Kinetic and Cold - the result is that both of those are raised by 6 points, while energy and heat are lowered by 6 points. Method around this: Experiment on opposing layers at the same time with equal points, and both will raise, but the difficulty is also raised.
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:46 am
#4
DarkainHellfire wrote:
I really wish we could experiment on the hindrances of the armor, so we could make some GOOD armor without enormous hindrances..that's all I wish on. that and being able to experiment on condition.
Message Edited by DarkainHellfire on 04-12-2005 12:40 PM
Unfortunately that is not going to happen. More advanced armors will have more hinderances, but as combat professions climb the ranks to master, all those hinderances will be mitigated away anyway, so a master rifleman for instance will have no hinderances, even though the suit has em, because they all get mitigated away.
So experimenting on hinderances/encum is a pointless venture.
EdOWar
Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:46 am
#5
I'd like to see the following lines of experimentation:
1) Base Resists (Energy/Kinetic)
2) Elemental Resists (Heat/Cold/Acid/Electricty)
3) Condition
That's three lines of experimentation, and doesn't involve hinderances (which I agree is a lost cause...the Devs simplyaren't going to allow AS to experiment on hinderances).
I've read that the resists will have natural opposites, such that experimenting on one resist reduces the opposing resits. But I don't see why experimenting on Heat resists would have to decrease Cold resists. We're already paying a price by experimenting on Heat resists, because each point put into Heat resists is a point we can't put somewhere else.
But if the Devs insist upon this Rock-Paper-Scissors approach, maybe they could at least make it so that in the layers we could put extra points into a line so that the opposing resist is reduced by a lower amount (similar to how it works for the Shipwright sub-components).
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:16 am
#6
I would be up for this, but I don't think the "ying-yang" effect is going to go away - it makes far too much sense from a balance standpoint.
SeraphDauthi
Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:11 am
#7
Here's an idea that attempts to implement the proposed change. Allow AS to experiment on both opposite protections ie Heat and Cold where they both improve. The balance in this action could be that the hinderance increases which to my understanding of the new system is that hinderance is hard coded. So the only way for hinderance to change AT ALL since we cannot experiment on it directly is to experiment on both protections so that the hinderance increases so that its a detriment to the user. Conversely if an AS who has enough experimentation points chooses to experiment only on one protection ie Heat or Cold, then the hinderance stays the same. Logistically, i don't know if this would work in its actual use of the armor but maybe this is one way of giving AS a choice in how they construct armor. To sum up, my idea would be as follows:
Experiment to increase Heat = Decrease on Cold and Hinderance is unchanged
Experiment to increase Cold = Decrease onHeat and Hinderance is unchanged
Experiment to increase both Heat AND Cold = Hinderance Increases
Furthermore, increases to both protection should exhibit a decreasing rate of return while the hinderances could potentially increase at a increasing rate so the challenge to ASis finding the "sweet spot" of both characteristics. For example, if you for some odd reason such as 12pts, uber resources, and legendary lootyou are able to max both protections to meet or perhaps exceed the theoretical limits, the hinderance would increase exponentially so that it is practically unusable. This would provide some level of a check and balance to a community that has proven to be innovative and inventive.
In essence, hinderance has a cap on its benefit to the user and the only change that can be made is a detriment to the user with the benefit of an increase of protection.
Trying to stay positive and provide feedback and ideas that can only improve our awesome profession. I can understand the Devs dillema of maintaining balance while preventing loopholes to the system. At this point, we should try to come up with ideas where we are not allowed to have our cake and eat it too but allow us to have some semblance of choices.
Message Edited by SeraphDauthi on 04-12-2005 11:12 AM
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:01 pm
#8
This post thus far should tell the devs they are doing the right thing.
After all, given the positive nature of this thread, one would think that for all the people passionate about AS, they would at least hedge their bets and try to come up with something in case their whining gets them nowhere (which it won't).
I'm sorry, but if people want to whine rather than TRULY help their profession, they get what's coming to them, carte blanche.
To see "whining" posts go up in count, and to see this one sink, I have no more sympathy for anyone in the Armorsmith profession anymore - I see the majority now as nothing more than a bunch of spoiled cry-babies, those present in this thread excluded.
Sorry, it is just a sad state of affairs when a group crying for relevance cannot be civil and composed enough to propose new ideas to give them that relevance...
Valkyrie36
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:40 pm
#9
How about a slider that we can put points into which adds random modifiers to the armor. The first set of points establishes the mod and all points put into it after that just adds to the value of the mod.
The more points you put into the first mod experlimentation run, the better the mod.
Example1:
A smith puts 5 points in resistance and runs the experiment.
He than puts 1 point in the modifiers line and it adds a +1 to Pistol Accuracy while moving. He than puts the other 4 points in the mod line and it ends up being +3 to Pistol Accuracy while moving.
Example2:
A +12 point smith puts 5 into resistance then runs the experiment.
He than puts 3 points into the mod line and runs the experiment and gets +1 to Ranged Defence. He puts the rest of his 4 points in the mod line, gets an ammazing success for +4 Ranged Defence.
It will at leastgive the smith something to think about during crafting and make the +12 point smith useful. It would also give smiths the tools they need to craft armor different than anyone elses.
Message Edited by Valkyrie36 on 04-12-2005 02:47 PM
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:45 pm
#10
A mod slider would be a very interesting idea, and would allow for more customizable armors.
TurboSith
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:48 pm
#11
yeah that mod idea is a good idea... however im sure BEs and Tailors will feel shafted...
i like the idea of BEs making the mods and tailors making teh cloths they go in and then they come to us....
unless for every +1 in the mod it add -10 to hindrance
ZionHalcyon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:51 pm
#12
Well, I think the Mod idea could work if Armorsmiths get an optional component from a BE that will allow them to experiment modson the armor (how many blocks depends on how well the BE's make it), and to be fair, Tailors can do the same for clothes.
That way, no one gets shafted, and it leaves people with the choice to wear either clothes or armor, and it also deals with the supposed rumor that skill tapes are going away after the CURB.
This way, everything is in the players' hands.
Valkyrie36
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:53 pm
#13
You cant wear much clothing whenyou are wearing armor. So there could be a separation of what mods we give and what the tailors can do with BE tissue.
Ranged Defense
Accuracies
Speeds
These are all things that BEs don't make tissues for. But a good armorsmith can craft his armor to help you draw a pistol faster. Or modify the helm software to help you predict where an enemies pistol is pointed for better ranged defense.
Page 1 of 3