Armorsmith Archive
Thread: BRAINSTORMING: Fighting for Encum Exp is a lost cause lets think of something new.
TurboSith
Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:55 pm
#14
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Well, I think the Mod idea could work if Armorsmiths get an optional component from a BE that will allow them to experiment modson the armor (how many blocks depends on how well the BE's make it), and to be fair, Tailors can do the same for clothes.
That way, no one gets shafted, and it leaves people with the choice to wear either clothes or armor, and it also deals with the supposed rumor that skill tapes are going away after the CURB.
This way, everything is in the players' hands.
so you are saying taht a BE experiments on their subcomponent.. then taht becomes a theoretical resource that would cap how many points we can put in? like if the BE got the mod to be +10 (considering 10 being perfect) then a AS can spend 10 of 12 points on the mod line to max taht out...
if so that makes sense... so there is experimentation on all levels...
i still feel sorry for tailors though... give them mroe clothing options taht dont have tan as the primary color
TurboSith
Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:04 pm
#15
MrGouda wrote:
Is the condition and resists in the same line? If so, at a minimum I think they should/could split those out.
But is this a catch 22? Oh we 12 pt-ers have extra points to make higher condition armor so we don't sell as many sets. Or do we charge more for higher condition armor, resists being equal. I think so.
So if you don't put "elemental" layers in they don't show up in the base resists? Can anyone confirm this? I think adding a line for every elemental resist pair would be a little much. You could have 4 different lines in addition to the base (assuming different layers can go into a segment). Assuming different segments can go into a core, the core could have EVERY layer in it. WOW. I've never even made a coldor heat layer. This could get quite complex.
Thinking out loud...
from the core alone... it looks as though all elementals are in base... kin and energy are in special...
the layers yin and yang the resists rather then moving to special resists... as far as i've seen.. maybe i was half asleep when i did it../shrug
MrGouda
Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:18 pm
#16
Strawman: (1) Eachcore must be made to have only ONE special resist, either kinetic or energy. (crafter choice somehow)
(2) The non special resist is added to the base resist automatically. (the other of kinetic or energy not used above)
(3) specifc types of armor get ONE additional special upon final combine based on the average or max base
resist in the list. [e.g. padded gets blast added]
(4) no other elemental resists appear in ANY armor unless that layer is included in the segments
(5) experimentation lines are added to increase the special resists
(6) experimentation line for the base resist (existing) (with paired trade offs as already mentioned by devs)
(7) experimentation line for condition ONLY
Benefits: ALL layers will now be crafted by the majority of smiths. Tremendous flexibility in how we make our armors. No more boring composite like runs. Experimentation is not elementary and requires thought and has options.
Message Edited by MrGouda on 04-12-2005 03:28 PM
Message Edited by MrGouda on 04-12-2005 03:29 PM
Thula
Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:31 pm
#17
ZionHalcyon wrote:
...
To see "whining" posts go up in count, and to see this one sink, I have no more sympathy for anyone in the Armorsmith profession anymore - I see the majority now as nothing more than a bunch of spoiled cry-babies, those present in this thread excluded.
...
ooooh, I better post here so I don't get grouped with the cry-babies...
On a serious note, I agree that it is only constructive posts that will get us anywhere but sometimes you can only take so much. We all wantsome complexity in the new system (at this point I am not very picky, just give me something to play with),and a couple of the ideas here are very good.
1) Layers: there are a lot of ways they should be able to code some interesting experimentation lines for layers. Ying-Yang is mentioned, but how about a slightly offset result. When you experiment 6 points on say Heat, Cold is lowered 4 points. Thereby you can increase all resists, but much less than if you focused on one line (this would also give existing 12pt a small edge).
2) Segment: Split special (kin/ene) and base (the rest) experimentation
(Disclaimer : I have not tested the advanced layers on TC so I do not know whether any of these options are already included)
3) Mods: Very interesting idea, which would be in line with the philosophy of giving even casual players access to the "goods" at a reasonable cost. I do like the idea of getting this from BE as well.
4) Loot: Loot is apparently going to play a very important role after the CU. How about that whenever we add a loot piece, we get a new line to experiment on where we can increase the effect of the added loot (I recall a Krayt scale giving a Health bonus as an example). This would also increase the motivation to hand craft pieces.
Important note: I believe that whatever they (hopefully) choose to include should allow for players and crafters to unbalance the game just a little...Not like today with 90% armor and insane buffs, but a small difference thatis worthwhile working towards. The prospect of even a tiny edge can be very motivating for both us and our customers, a perfect balance is not.
Imaridril
Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:35 pm
#18
Here's an idea for another possible line...
I've noticed that the new Krayt Scales on TC have a stat that just reads Health +5, or something like that. I'm wondering if that means that with the addition of loot, we'll be able to craft armor that grants a small Health buff when you equip it. Why not add a line that lets you experiment up this "Health Buff" on any set of armor. Say, for example, that by default it starts at +0, but with good resourses and 10 points put into the line, you'd be able to get it up to say +50 or so, plus whatever loot enhancers you put in. I don't see this as being too unbalancing, since you'd have to sacrifice experimenting on resists to get it up.
erli
Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:13 pm
#19
Things that could be experimented on;
1. Special Resists - Enerby for Recon, Kinetic for Assault, both (but not as high as either specialist armor) for Battle. Based off type of armor not requiring additional kinetic or energy layers. OQ+SR
2. Base Resists - Elemental Damages. Can only add resistances here based upon which layers are placed in, those left out remain vulnerabilities. OQ+UT
3. Condition - Total Condition of armor. OQ+DR
4. Decay Rate - Effects how rapidly armor decays. OQ+DR
5. Sockets - Experimenting here influences number of AA's permitted in a piece of armor. (to be fair would have to also offer to this to tailors, but hey they probably want relevant experimentation too when alls said and done.) Allow non-combat skill bio-mods. OQ+MA
6. Functional Use - Allow armorsmiths to expend all 10pts of experimentation into one line in which if they are able get all "great success" or better results in a suit wearable by anybody regardless of certification. Due to having required all experimentation points its effectiveness as armor would be limited. Without professional hinderance mitigation non-certed professions would not be effective combatants while wearing this armor. However, it would solve the issue of people not being able to wear the style or look of a certain armor that they would like to.OQ
7. Storage spaces - Zero to Five storage spaces (inventory) per armor piece depending on experimentation expended. OQ+MA
8. Enhancement module effectiveness - Create a bunch of mods much like the droid modules that provide basic utilitarian effects. Examples being; expand the range of the personal light, storage, power pack for energy weapons (could enhance power or decay of energy weapons), a PSG pack, droid command mod (lets you pull two combat droids at once), built in survey devices or crafting tools, datapad storage, artificial limb power, etc. I know this ones out there, but its somewhat in-line with other previous additions and works toward the goal of involving other professions in a meaningful yet not overbearing manner. OQ+PE (requires PE relevant resources)
9. Hinderance - It is not impossible to make hinderance experimentable. In fact it could just as easily be required experimentation to get armor that is wearable thereby costing experimentation in areas more relevant (resists). The experimentable ranges of such could be that if no points were spent on it only a Master Combat profession could wear without Hinderance to a maximum (at the cost of something else) of a Novice being able to wear without hinderance. You could even tighten it in a bit more than that, but retaining it as a variation in the experimentation of armor seems to be desired by many current AS. OQ+MA
10. HAM - Let armorsmiths, BE's, or tailors (or all) craft special segment enhancers that apply a full time mini buff (1-10%) to one of the attribute stats. The tailor uses a part from the BE to craft a bio-padding that the AS turns into a segment enhancer. If said enhancer is present the armorsmith can experiment on this in the final armor combine. Would require four separate "perfect resource, perfect crafting" events to achieve the maximum 10% and would add another interesting wrinkle to the crafting process. OQ+MA
Fobok
Tue Apr 12, 2005 4:32 pm
#20
Thank you! I'm glad I found this thread, this is the kind of thing I've been hoping to see since the CU test started.
Anyway, I really think the Ying-Yang effect is good. It would make it fun to experiment without attempting to push the devs to do something they've got no intention of doing, which would get us nowhere.
What I'd like to hear from the CU testers, since my own armoursmith on test is advancing very slowly due to my focusing on Rifle testing as part of the testing team, is how the layers work together now, so more detailed suggestions can be made. (I may have missed a post already that said something like this.) Sure, each assembly may only have one experimentation line, but how does experimenting on one layer and not another work? How do they intermix? While, we should definitely work on suggesting a second experimentation line, we should make sure whatever we suggest doesn't interfere with the complexity involved there as well, or instead of getting more flexibility and creativity, we'll just be sacrificing one kind for another.
Anyway, I really think the Ying-Yang effect is good. It would make it fun to experiment without attempting to push the devs to do something they've got no intention of doing, which would get us nowhere.
What I'd like to hear from the CU testers, since my own armoursmith on test is advancing very slowly due to my focusing on Rifle testing as part of the testing team, is how the layers work together now, so more detailed suggestions can be made. (I may have missed a post already that said something like this.) Sure, each assembly may only have one experimentation line, but how does experimenting on one layer and not another work? How do they intermix? While, we should definitely work on suggesting a second experimentation line, we should make sure whatever we suggest doesn't interfere with the complexity involved there as well, or instead of getting more flexibility and creativity, we'll just be sacrificing one kind for another.
Jaer_Allanon
Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:38 pm
#21
As it stands now. The bonus of having 12 points is that you can recover from a crit fail on experimentation. The new system is going to increase the value of loot drop enhancers for Armor like it is now with Weapons. All premium armor will be loot "enhanced" armor. The rest will be standard fair compared to the Uber gear.
As far as BE cloth for armor, there isn't enough BEs playing as it stands now to supply all the chefs. The skill point requirements for BE makes it tough to "multi-class" with artisans. Though, I would see this as the potential of the medium tier armor group. Possibly the defacto group if more BEs start playing. Since BEs will also be making all the medicines, this could be difficult to attain.
Interdependancy is going to increase with the combat classes. This will increase custom orders or just increase the amount of looted enhancers available on the market, and may encourage more hides to be harvested.
Actually I could extrapilate to no end. Too hard to tell the overall impact of these changes as a whole until they go "live".
Basically, you are starting over, or moving on. Depending on the drive and desire of the player base.
justapilgrim
Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:06 pm
#22
take out the encum bar fine
but leave us two other things to experiment on
special resists, and base resists
as on TCep3 now, if you experiment you raise both base and special resists. Leave it like it is for all the armors (cept composite), make it so that if you raise special protection, base stays the same. If you raise base, special stays the same.
Not nearly as huge a loss as losing two lines, I am really surprised that the made both go up together. this shouldnt be too hard to put in I wouldnt think.
ZionHalcyon
Wed Apr 13, 2005 4:41 am
#23
Lots of good stuff here. Someone needs to let the devs know about this thread - too much good stuff to pass up.
Gallio
Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:19 am
#24
How about experimenting on complexity to reduce factory time?
With the four stages of crafting this would be nice
With the four stages of crafting this would be nice
Message Edited by Gallio on 04-13-2005 02:20 PM
papillion
Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:33 am
#25
An easy fix for 12 point smiths would to be to make master AS only have say 8 exp points (not sure if this is the right number as not master As yet on TC-5) and the extra 2 points in our suits would raise us to 10, giving a small advantage?
Any thoughts?
PS does anyone know which post i need to look at to see what can actually be experimented on for each armor component (layers, segment, core, appearence)?