Armorsmith Archive

(Edit: We've completed this phase of numbers, scroll down to check out part #2)

Okay I'm not in a huge mathmatical mood latley, so how about we get some number crunching so I can get some data to the developers.

Anyone willing to get the following numbers:
#1: Factory time to make a run of 20 full suits of pvp armor in the current system
#2: Factory time to make a run of 20 full suits of pve armor in the current system

#3: Factory time to make a run of 20 full suits of basic, standard, and advanced armors in the current system.
#4: Resource requirements comparing making a suit of armor before and after the CU.
#5: Compare prices of resources, and how much you plan to charge for suits between the two systems based off of change in resource requirements and factory times.

Hehe, if I stay up late, I just might do these myself, but am opening it up to others.

Message Edited by Okram2k on 04-14-2005 09:25 AM

---

Brutus_Krylop wrote:

[a super detailed explanation]

---

dude, can we please get you a job at SOE?

---

Brutus_Krylop wrote:

Question #5: Pricing

General Comments and History

Pricing is such an inexact science, particularly in SWG. Not only must you cover your present and anticipated costs, you must also find the equilibrium spot where the rate at which the product is sold about equals the rate at which you are willing and able to replace it on the vendor. It's a continually evolving thing. Since the previous posts were entirely factual, I'm going to use this post to be more anecdotal and opinionated, bringing almost two yearsworth of experience as one of Bloodfin's top armorsmiths to the table.

Over the past six months, PvE Composite prices on Bloodfin stabilized around300K per suit, with particularly high-base or specialty-layeredvarieties fetching 25-50K more. The advent of the four-piece suit allowed me to focus more production on those pieces, as well as to charge more for them. Chestplates fetched 55K, helmets 45K, boots and gloves 40K. PvP Composite prices ranged a bit more -- I would easily sell full 39/67 suits for 450K, and probably could have gotten more, but I was also supplying my guildmates. I also sold 39/67 and 27/72 builds as individual pieces -- 65K for Helmets and Chestplates, 50K for Boots and Gloves.

Ubese sales crashed a few months after the dawn of the Village of Aurilia, but I still sold a few suits every now and then for around 150K. Ithorian armor was by special order only. I just recently got into the Wookiee Armor gig, which I soon discovered was ridiculously expensive and was actually costing me (d'oh) ... but at least I kept a few Wookiees alive.

By and large, I have been using resources that spawned well over eight months ago, some close to sixteen months. The only exceptions have been some new wooly hide spawns, a server-best polysteel copper, and an ever-improving Kammris Iron stockpile. Armor sales have almost completely dried up over the past week as more and more folks prepare for the CURB. My shop is now in "Operation Shutdown," anticipating the new resource requirements and clearing current stocks.

It is in this environment, with great trepidation, that we see the new schematics. Many of us are worried, and rightfully so. As demonstrated above, top-end armor will soon require over twice the resources that it does today. Some of the required resources are so rare that there have been more jetpacks and Mandalorian Armor pieces crafted on a server than the number of spawns of some particular ores. Furthermore, the general utility of armor in the post-CURB world is questionable with the new level-based damage system and the total lack of documentation as to what the protection levels on the armor actually mean, not to mention how elemental damage works.

Current Resource Pricing

Right now, I'm going to do something that I haven't done in a long time -- evaluate the resource cost of a single suit of my PV.5 Composite (ADV.3KL), much as appeared in the previous post. I'm going to price the resources as they would have been sold a month or two ago.

Phrik Al ... 15cpu

BeCu ... 15cpu

Intrusive ... 20cpu

SPF ... 10cpu

Nab FP ... 25cpu

Wooly ... 90cpu

ColatFe ... 10cpu

Kiirium Steel ... 5cpu

Polysteel Cu ... 5cpu

Kammris Fe ... 5cpu

Amorphous ... 10cpu

Polymer ... 15cpu

[RFP / SC resources are basically junk, I don't count them]

Total resource cost for a full suit? 72,275cr

CURB Resource Pricing

Now, I will do the same estimate for my buddy Brutussk's ADV.4EL Assault suit.

Bone ... 30cpu

Metal ... 5cpu

Dant Wooly ... 100cpu

Dath FP ... 3cpu (Garbage)

Intrusive ... 20cpu

Kammris Fe ... 5cpu

Mytrha Cu ... 15cpu

Amorphous Gem ... 10cpu

Steel ... 5cpu

Iron ... 5cpu

Polymer ... 15cpu

Scaley ... 60cpu

Ferrous Metal ... 5cpu

Polymer ... 15cpu

Plexite ... TOTALLY UNKNOWN; SWGCraft.com reports only five Plexite spawns in Bloodfin history, all of them pretty much junk. If I were able to find someone with a stash, I'd probably go as high as 50cpu if the quantity were right. If it spawned tomorrow, I'd say 5cpu.

Alantium ... 20cpu

Total resource cost: 178,930 (5cpu Plexite) - 238,330 (50cpu Plexite)

If I were to use four Primus Layers, I would estimate my resource cost at 315,000 credits. In all likelihood, with the resources I have in abundance, I will make stuff with two primus and two kinetic layers (that sounds like a pretty good PvE combination to me, although I have no real basis to make that judgement ... call it experienced armorsmith intuition), so I'll say that my costs for that will be around 240,000 credits.

I don't think it would be a stretch to assume that the prices for Advanced Battle and Reconaissance armor resources will be in the same general range. Resource costs for Standard Cores will be within 15% of Advanced Cores, although I can see Basic Cores being nearly half the cost of the Advanced Cores.

Product Pricing

Ahh, the final problem. Do I currently multiply my resource price for composite by 5, or do I merely add 250K or so to the resource price? If the former is the case, we might be looking at 1.5Mcr for a production suit of Advanced Armor, but if the latter is the case, new suits might only cost 550K. I think the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

The final price has to accomodate the open-market resource prices, the value added by combining the resources into a useful and needed product, my operating and maintenance costs, anticipated future purchasing power, and be high enough that the opportunity costs of having a crafter template in the new system are matched.

Gut instinct tells me to go with a 750K / suit opening price (basically double the resource cost and add 250K), and then adjust it as needed.

---

Well you saved me the trouble (again) of having to list all the Sunrunner cpu costs. Our production costs are higher it seems due to the lack of good, and cheap generic ferrous metal. Our best kammris iron goes from 35 - 50cpu. Which leads to a whole different point of armor wearers expecting to pay the same as they see it for on another server. But that's for a different day.

Now we see the resources required over double, but the total cost going up even more than that. This can be easily attributed to the higher usage of hides/bone and named resources. I know I just recently sold my last block of atlantium ore for 50cpu. At that price I can't even say I wish I had it back.

Another thought that came to mind was the smaller runs we will get. The schematic rate will go to 1 to 26. This means we have to waste a higher percent of this larger amount of resources to do factory runs.

Answers to Question 3

IF my maths is correct of course

Twenty Suits of a normal type requires 20 x 11 cores = 220 + say 20 for schematics = 240 cores
Each core requires either 1, 2 or 3 segments.

Basic Armour: Segs needed = 240 + 1
Standard Armour: Segs needed = 480 + 2
Advanced Armour: Segs needed = 720 + 3

Each Seg can take 4 layers

Basic Armour: Layers needed = 964 + 4
Standard Armour: Layers needed = 1928 + 4
Advanced Armour: Layers needed = 2892 + 4


So, 4 factories running layers; call it 725 layers each for adv, 485 for standard and 245 for basic.

Time taken (Layers)

Basic Layers Complexity 35 (+4 exp) = 39 x 245 x 8 secs
= 76 440 secs
= 1274 minutes
= 21.23 hours

Standard Layers = 39 x 485 x 8 secs
= 42.03 hours

Advanced Layers = 39 x 725 x 8
= 62.83 hours

Time taken (Segments)

*EDIT* Doh, realised I could parallel run the Standard and Advanced Segs in other factories

Segments run in 1, 2 or 3 factories for basic/standard/advanced armours. Time remains the same.

Segs Complexity 30 (+4 exp) = 34 x 241 x 8
= 18.21 hours


Time taken (Cores)

Basic Cores Complexity 35 (+4 exp) = 39 x 240 x 8
= 20.8 hours

Standard Cores Complex 40 (+4 exp) = 44 x 240 x 8
= 23.47 hours

Advanced Cores Complex 45 (+4 exp) = 49 x 240 x 8
= 26.13 hours


Now assuming 9 factories for simultaneous run of final combine

Final Combine Complex 20 (+4 exp) = 24 x 20 x 8
= 1.07 hours


Therefore the totals are as follows:

20 Basic Suits = 61.31 hours = 2.50 days
20 Standard Suits = 84.78 hours = 3.53 days
20 Advanced Suits = 108.24 hours = 4.51 days

Note you can add about 2 hours to basic, 4 to standard and about 6 to advanced suit times by using Advanced Armour Layers as they have an un-exped complexity of 38.


Hope this makes sense

Dibyd 4404 AS on TC-EP3
aka Dibad, MAS on TC-Prime

Message Edited by Explorer_Jim on 04-14-2005 03:24 PM

Message Edited by Explorer_Jim on 04-14-2005 03:27 PM

Message Edited by FishDoc on 04-14-2005 07:24 AM

thanks for the numbers guys, I will be writing a report on them later today.

Now part #2 will take a bit more work:

Compare the effectivness of wearing armor in combat before and after the CU. Namely what is the raw % damage reduction wearing the new armors in the CU. And then compare to readily available counter parts in the current system. (80kin/80energy composite, and 75% kin ubese, leaving out pvp since stun will be nullified in the new CU.)

Ok....I'm just gonna throw up what I've paid recently on Lowca for my current resources (not the BEST on the server ever but pretty darn good). The Lowca numbers will be in Red....

---

Brutus_Krylop wrote:

Question #5: Pricing

Current Resource Pricing

Right now, I'm going to do something that I haven't done in a long time -- evaluate the resource cost of a single suit of my PV.5 Composite (ADV.3KL), much as appeared in the previous post. I'm going to price the resources as they would have been sold a month or two ago.

Phrik Al ... 15cpu ..... 10cpu

BeCu ... 15cpu ..... 8cpu

Intrusive ... 20cpu ..... 12cpu

SPF ... 10cpu ..... 8cpu

Nab FP ... 25cpu ..... 20cpu

Wooly ... 90cpu ..... 135cpu

ColatFe ... 10cpu ..... 15cpu

Kiirium Steel ... 5cpu ..... 10cpu

Polysteel Cu ... 5cpu ..... 10cpu

Kammris Fe ... 5cpu ..... 7cpu

Amorphous ... 10cpu ..... 12 cpu

Polymer ... 15cpu ..... 5cpu

[RFP / SC resources are basically junk, I don't count them]

Total resource cost for a full suit? 72,275cr ..... 62,176cr

---

I charge approximately 20-30K per piece and 65K for a 4 Piece Suit and approximately 200K for a full suit of 80Kin/80Elec/69Base Composite. Just to give you some comparison totals from another server.

Message Edited by WolfStrong-III on 04-14-2005 07:54 AM