Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Layer, Segment, Core and final assembly maths and caps for starting smiths
- All basic layers, kinetic,energy, heat etc can add a maximum of 100 per layer to their nominated protectionto the segment and will deduct 100+1 from their opposite resist.
- All advanced layers, primus etc can add a maximum of 50 per layer to their nominated protection and deduct 50+1 from their opposite resist.
For example a good energy layer might be +95 energy and -96 kinetic and a good primus layer might be +45 energy/kinetic and -46 elemental (sometimes referred to as base)
Layers+segments
To work out what will happen when you add these layers to your segment you need to know what the unlayered stats of your finished segment are and then add/subtract the layer numbers depending on the number of layers you choose to add, very simple maths really once you know whats going on.
For example, say I can make an unlayered recon segment with 950 protection. If I add 4 of my energy layers above to this I would get the following results,
energy would be 95 x 4 = 380 (layer contribution) + 950 (segment) = 1330
kinetic would be -96 X 4 = -384 (layer contribution) + 950 (segment) = 566
elemental would remain unchanged at 950.
If I added 4 of my primus layers above to this segment instead I would get the following
energy would be 45 x 4 = 180 (layer) + 950 (seg) = 1130
kinetic would be 45 x 4 = 180 (layer) + 950 (seg) = 1130
elemental base would be -46x4 = -184 + 950 = 766
In terms of caps,
- an unlayered segment maximum is 1000 with perfect resources,
- applying the layer maximums or 100 and 50 then a primus layered segment would have a maximum of 1200 energy and kinetic with perfect resources and an energy segment would have a maximum of 1400 energy with perfect resources.
Unlayered Segments, Cores and final combine
Advanced core armor works out as follows, I am considering elemental protection here, as its the easiest to work with when looking at caps.
- Each segment can add a maximum of 1000, 3 segments for a total of 3000 maximum possible if resources are perfect.
- The core can add a maximum of 3000 on its own with perfect resources.
- The final combine will add a maximum of 400.
So if there was no cap and you had perfect resources at segment and core you could get 6400. Of course, there is a cap at 6000 so anything over 5600 at final experimented core stage is wasted.
Lets use the example unlayered recon segment above as an example. This has a 950 protection rating. Lets also assume I am using very good core resources and these are giving a 2800 core elemental protection bonus.
My core elemental protection rating would be: (950 x 3 ) + 2800 = 5650. Add 1000 to this for energy and subtract 1000 for kinetic since this is a recon core and you will end up with 4650K 6650E 5650B
Adding the 400 from the final combine will yield a capped recon armor piece since 400 is added to each protection. In this case only 350 is added to reach the cap. This is important when we consider layered armor.
Obviously, when working out the kinetic and energy caps for recon and assault you just need to subtract/add 1000 from the elemental base due to their inate energy/kinetic layer bonuses.
Layers+Segments+Cores+Final Combine
Lets consider advanced cores again but this time we have layered them. Since there are 3 segments per core and each segment gives a maximum of 400 basic layer bonus and 200 advanced layer bonus then the bonus seen at the core stage will be 1200 for basic layer and 600 for advanced layer.
As an example lets take our energy layered recon segments above again and our core resources that are delivering a 1800K 3800E 2800B elemental bonus on their own.
recon segments were 566 kinetic 1330 energy and 950 elemental
So (3 x 566K/1330E/950B) + 1800K/3800E/2800B
Core will have the following stats 3498K 7790E 5650B and final combine would be 3848K 8140E 6000B, notice that final combine only adds 350 to the Kinetic and energy this time around, i.e. the elemental cap minus the actual elemental core value is the result added to the kinetic and energy protections. A similar thing happens with primus layered armor, the elemental will not increase by the 400 at the final combine stage.
To work out what value you will get added to the layer protections, e.g. energy for recon and kinetic, energy for primus you need to know what your resources give you with an unlayered core and what you layer resources give you. Simple steps are as follows:
- Make an unlayered core. Pay attention to the values of each protection, especially elemental. Calculate the difference between 6000 and your unlayered elemental value. If the result is less than 400 then this lower value is the benefit you will see added at the final assembly stage on all protections for layered armor.
- Make a single layer.Multiple the single layer stats by 12 for advanced armor to indicate the core bonus. Apply this to the unlayered protection values and then apply the difference you obtained in 1 above. The result is the expected final armor protection result.
For completeness lets take my primus example above and work out the numbers as well assuming we are making primus layered battle armor.
assume core resources add 2800 as before
primus segment is So (3 x 1130K/1130E/766B)+ 2800K/2800E/2800B = 6190K 6190E 5098B
Since the core and segment resources are giving the same bonus as in the recon example of 950 and 2800 we know that the final combine adder will be 350.
So our final combine primus layered battle will be 6540K 6540E 5448B
Final Combine doesn't add 400??? what gives?
Another example of how the final combine bonus plays out for close to capped layered armor.
Remember, the whole thing is balanced. The final assembly only adds a maximum of 400. In the case of cores with stats close to cap it adds less than 400 to reach the cap. This "less than result" will be applied to the layer protections at the final combine. If this was not so that you could effectively exceed the caps by layering armor and your layers would somehow seem to be adding much more than the 12 x single layer bonus applied to unalyered core protection values.
As an example, let's expand on my recon example I used in the main post:
Final comments
The nice thing about getting the best segments you can is that it allows you to use 1 or 2 sub standard core resources. Segments use relatively generic resources so collecting excellent segment resources is quite easy. However, collecting excellent core resources is harder due to them being named ones.
Being in the amormsmith business for nearly 2 years has allowed me to collect excellent resources for most of the new requirements. My segments are 975+ for all three armors. This means for example I can use pretty rubbish naboo bristley and still get a 5600 core and get to the cap.
I also choose my core resources wisely to make sure I can as close to the 5600 mark as possible before I commit to a factory run and don't go much over it so that I can save some of my uber resources for those times when good stuff might be lacking.
Kreen
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-07-2005 11:22 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-10-2005 01:59 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-10-2005 02:29 PM
Added some more examples
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-12-2005 01:19 AM
Clarified final assembly bonus for layered armors.
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-12-2005 09:31 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-12-2005 10:33 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 08-08-2005 08:40 PM
more common build examples and improved explanations, examples
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 08-09-2005 02:52 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 08-20-2005 08:51 PM
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 10-13-2005 05:58 PM
On an interesting side note, some marauder armor will jump another 400 points when you either 1)repair it, or 2) leave it in storage for too many publishes 
Hoo-rahh for 6800 primus battle armor!
On an interesting side note, some marauder armor will jump another 400 points when you either 1)repair it, or 2) leave it in storage for too many publishes
Hoo-rahh for 6800 primus battle armor!
-Droideka- wrote:
On an interesting side note, some marauder armor will jump another 400 points when you either 1)repair it, or 2) leave it in storage for too many publishes
Hoo-rahh for 6800 primus battle armor!
Wow thats a new bug on me, never heard of that before. Was it just marauder? and did all three resists jump by 400? If you have 6800 energy? primus marauder now and it jumped 400, then you would have had 6400 energy? before?
So stats before jump would have been 6400E 6400K 5600B, thatsaverage primus layered stuff. You are now saying it jumped to 6800E 6800K and possibly 6000B? I would love to see a screenie of this
Given that hinderances track resists, did they jump as well or did you end up with a suit with uber protection and hinderances that can be mitigated at master elite?
Message Edited by WittyNewt on 07-11-2005 10:19 PM
ravingbantha wrote:
quick note on the primus layered Battle armor...
I made a suit of Quad layered Primus RIS 2 days ago... stats came to
Kinetic 6524
Energy 6524
Spec 5476
as you can see, the special protection on mine is 76 points higher than the original listed cap. Now this may be an error on my behalf (info came from an auction on my servers trade forums) but I was pretty sure I wrote it correctly... I'll double check when I get home and if needed post a screenie.
It will be higher than that listed because you are not capped . Remember elemental is the opposite resist to kinetic/energy for primus layers. So your primus layers are adding 524 to your kinetic and energy and subtracting 524 from your elemental.
If you were making perfect primus layers you would add 600 and subract 600 and so would reach the cap. If you made very poor primus layers that only added say324 in totalyou would end up with 6324K 6324E 5676B
Message Edited by -Droideka- on 07-11-2005 06:48 PM
However after crafting fully layered faction armors I'm in doubt.
I made following cores:
Quad kinetic assault - 7803/3575/5689
Quad energy recon - 3754/7718/5736
Quad primus battle - 6179/6179/5095
Then I made faction armors out of it - all 3 types. Thats what came out:
Assault Quad Kinetic 8114/3886/6000
Recon Quad Energy 4018/7982/6000
Battle Quad Primus 6542/6542/5458
Im lost...
I must admit I didnt test layered cores on regular armor, Ill do that when I get some time spare.
PS. it seems that on non-advanced layers it adds (6000-elemental resist that come out on core) therefore cap on elemental damage influences max stat on K/E. Not a clue about advanced layers.
Message Edited by Xeovar on 07-12-2005 03:49 PM
Xeovar wrote:
For a while I also thought final combine gives 400 to stats.
However after crafting fully layered faction armors I'm in doubt.
I made following cores:
Quad kinetic assault - 7803/3575/5689
Quad energy recon - 3754/7718/5736
Quad primus battle - 6179/6179/5095
Then I made faction armors out of it - all 3 types. Thats what came out:
Assault Quad Kinetic 8114/3886/6000
Recon Quad Energy 4018/7982/6000
Battle Quad Primus 6542/6542/5458
Im lost...
I must admit I didnt test layered cores on regular armor, Ill do that when I get some time spare.
PS. it seems that on non-advanced layers it adds (6000-elemental resist that come out on core) therefore cap on elemental damage influences max stat on K/E. Not a clue about advanced layers.
Message Edited by Xeovar on 07-12-2005 03:49 PM
it only adds 400 on the final combine if your unlayered cores are at (cap - 400) or less. for example, for battle armor, if your unlayered cores are at 5700, the final combine will only add 300. if you are at 5600 or lower, you will get the full 400.
so if you are capping all your armors unlayered, the best way to figure out what your layered armor will look like is to take the stats of your layers and multiply that by 12, and then add that number to the cap for the type of armor you are creating.