Armorsmith Archive
Thread: a thought on the armor nerf
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Gweeboe
Tue Jun 22, 2004 3:50 am
#1
anyone that realizes this...with the nerf on armor...if it is a big nerf anyways...well this means that some characters wont even wear armor due to the fact that the resistances will be too low based on the ham cost to wear it...thats basically y u almost never see anyother type of armor out there...i say this cuz i also read that they r intending to nerf doctor buffs as well...so many folks wont really see the benefits from wearing the heavy armor types( or any armor at all) and then to top it all off they are making it so the adventure planets will be unsoloable...so no more 35k missions for the elite combat classes...now that also means that we wont be able to charge as much for our armor to get any sort of steady business due to the fact that our customers wont be making that much...or it will take a long while to get enough to pay for that 600k suit of composite...
and they arent nerfing the cost of factories/harvesters or any of that so we will still be expected to maintain them regulary...now that might not mean much to the guy that has 50mill or more but to the noob smith then that means a hell of a lot due to the fact that it will take atleast twice as long as it does now to be able to "break" into the profession since he really wont have the money backing him to be able to pay for those costs...
needless to say that we might all be destined to a huge drop in our business due to the fact that this nerf has the possibility of taking away the greatness that is composite...the only real reason y i wear it when i go killn rather than craftn is cuz of those wonderful resists....and awesome buffs...now if both those get beat with the nerf stick pretty bad then i dont see the point of even wearing it really...cuz it wont be that great...
...unless they nerf ham costs as well...which they probably wont...
some might argue that a 30% resist is still 30%...very true very true...but honestly...if they cut doctor buffs in half...and with the usually large amount of ham costs on an average set of composite...well your specials are going to cost a lot more...your regen is going to be a lot slower...since basically the doc will buff u for the amount that your ham costs on that suit will be...nullifing it ultimately...well then...u r left basically with your regular hams with a little more in health and action...IMO u r better off getn master medic with some great stims and go have at it...
...keep in the "broken quests" and loot...and get rid of some of the great things in the game...
just my 2 cents...
Kiom
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:21 am
#2
just a note, specials will be drawing from a new "abilities" pool, not the HAM pools.
Boli32
Tue Jun 22, 2004 7:53 am
#3
I would like to hope that the heavier professions (such as commando / heavy swordsman) get bonuses to wearing the heavier armour in the revamp. Where as every other profession may find it better to wear little or no armour.
Some people like being a tank.
draksin
Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:28 pm
#4
I'm hoping this will add some fun back into being an armorsmith. As it stand right now basically all anyone makes is composite, can't add new armor types since they will be pointless(comp will still be better in most instances). Though I'll miss my 90% composite, it will be fun to have people interested in other armor for once.
As for people not buying armor after nerf, don't think this will be the case. Take wookie armor for example. It's no where near the resists of composite, however you dont see many wookies withought armor. Just the ar1 on armor makes it worthwhile to wear in pve, even if it's 10% mabari.
PvP could be a different scenario, due to AP bonus', if armor is too weak(20% resists) it could end up being better to wear no armor. However I doubt we'll see armor get that low.
As for people not buying armor after nerf, don't think this will be the case. Take wookie armor for example. It's no where near the resists of composite, however you dont see many wookies withought armor. Just the ar1 on armor makes it worthwhile to wear in pve, even if it's 10% mabari.
PvP could be a different scenario, due to AP bonus', if armor is too weak(20% resists) it could end up being better to wear no armor. However I doubt we'll see armor get that low.
Ryche_Mykola
Tue Jun 22, 2004 1:59 pm
#5
Reason why Composite is pretty much the only armor made is that it works, its easier to make than a lot of the other armors, and we really have no other armors.
We only really had 1 new type of armor added since launch (Wookie armor). If the devs added some new armor segment schematics, I'm sure armorsmiths would craft the different types (and I don't mean another RIS armor segment schematic or another bone armor schematic).
Kouru
Tue Jun 22, 2004 10:24 pm
#6
I like the revamp personally. Combat will again be interesting, no more people soloing things that are redonkulously silly to solo. And Ithink their making other armours unique and usefull too, so people will look unique and wear armour more strategically.
Binstubbs
Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:41 am
#7
If I had my say........
They would leave buffs/armor the way they are HOWEVER....
Armor would have specific purposes, for example.....
Bone armor----would still be for noobs to think they look cool in
Mabari Armor---would have the type of effect that good comp has now but only on, say, heat damage
Tantel armor---would be exceptional for lightsaber damage
Padded armor----would be exceptional for kinetic damage (makes sense, it's PADDED, would you rather fall from a cliff onto a stack of pillows or on some ceramic/metal composite heap?)
Ubese---would be exceptional for stun damage
Composite----would be exceptional for electricity
Chitin----would be exceptional for energy
You get the general idea here. I'm not saying it would HAVE to break down like this, although i do feel padded is most logical for kinetic resists, but each suit should have a damage type, or possibly two,that no other suit can approach as far as resists are concerned. Perhaps cap out those non-specializeddamages on suits at 30% resist.
THIS IN ITSELF IS ALL THE COMBAT BALANCE THIS GAME NEEDS.
There is no way anyone with any real sense would want to carry every suit type, every type of weapon they need to affect every suit, and still be able to carry their loot, materials, stims, etc etc. Of course some will, more power to em, I can change guns faster than they can change armor.
By implementing something like this you would have to take into more consideration what you are up against during combat/PvP. Fat lot of good your composite suit will do you when the commando turns it into a person shaped oven with his flamethrower, fat lot of good your padded suit is going to do you when the TKM you get a tef on pulls out his DX2 pistol. See how this balances things out?
To take this a step further, implement acid damage on all spitting creatures' ranged attacks. Granted I dont want to have to wear a different suit for every type of beast but if all critters did either kinetic damage or acid damage, or both, then hunting would require a bit more than 10k for a buff and 100k for a ubese suit, and voila! invincibility
This would be GREAT for the profession as well because now you have variety in crafting, an armorsmith can choose to specialize in Chitin since it protects great against acid, or can specialize in composite since it protects great against those pesky dark jedi lightning bolts.
To balance out the PvE side of things, maybe cap out the maximum resists at 50% or 60%, with buffs this is AMPLE protection, but you wont be able to aggro an entire enraged rancor lair and survive it.
Anyway if you think this is a good concept let's pass it along the SOE chain of command til it falls upon the right set of ears (well eyes, technically). I honestly believe this sort of change would be more than healthy for the game.
Ryche_Mykola
Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:10 pm
#8
Binstubbs wrote:
There is no way anyone with any real sense would want to carry every suit type, every type of weapon they need to affect every suit, and still be able to carry their loot, materials, stims, etc etc. Of course some will, more power to em, I can change guns faster than they can change armor.
By implementing something like this you would have to take into more consideration what you are up against during combat/PvP. Fat lot of good your composite suit will do you when the commando turns it into a person shaped oven with his flamethrower, fat lot of good your padded suit is going to do you when the TKM you get a tef on pulls out his DX2 pistol. See how this balances things out?
....................................And then people realize armor is a waste and stop buying it.
Cool idea with your armors, but I think Composite should have 0 vulnerabilities, basically have it be a better version of Tantel. This will stop people flocking to Stun Damage professions.
If they make it to where you need to carry 3 types of armor with you they'll need to increase inventory space, and I don't think that'll happen anytime soon.
I still don't know why we can't craft faction armor. The devs hate us. They already have the graphics setup. Make it the same as Composite as far crafting and resists.
Binstubbs
Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:46 pm
#9
I don't think people will stop buying armor at all. Nor do I think it will be a waste, because people will know who they can and cant take on.
Granted, one-on-one PvP will still largely be an excersice in cherry-picking opponents, as it is too much now, mass raids and battles will be far more interesting and feasible. With the current PvP dmg reductions, as long as you are buffed you still cant be two hit killed by someone whom your suit doesnt protect against. But you will die if you cant get them, but hey, someone has to lose. Anyway, think what this could mean for the GCW. Faction issues aside, this makes raids and battles far more fun, now a Carbineer can actually be just as deadly as a rifleman, a TKA can be just as powerful as a Fencer. Mass combat will be FAR truer to what is should be, mass chaos with people getting killed/incapped basically according to luck of draw concerning who happens to attack them and what armor they are/aren't wearing.
Right now as a Master Rifleman fully entertainer buffed with stun composite, a krayt jawa rifle, 2 doses of +440 brandy, a dose of +635 canape, some vercupti, and muon on standby. I can take out multiple people only fearing the CM (assuming that I'm nota doc), or my buffs running out, before they have a chance of getting me. I will die eventually but not before take them all out at least once. With decent help, no group stands a chance against that, short of one with a jedi. Where's the fun in that? Where's the balance?
Make armor purpose specific, not like it is now. Why buy anything other than composite? Sure you can buy ubese, but it has half the condition composite does and with the current repair system, it simply is not worth the cost. I can screw up the repair on my composite twice and still have more max condition than most new sets of ubese.
Leave noob armor (bone) for noob indulgence, balance out and designate damage types amongst all the others. Make RIS serve the function that 80% composite does today, one suit for all occasions. Otherwise what's the point of all the asspain for RIS?? Honestly it isnt worth the materials as far as I'm concerned. There isnt a thing a guy in RIS can do right now, that i cant in my 80% composite. The price for having a suit like our current composite suits, should be the incredible, but achievable, asspain of making high quality RIS.
Dont ask me what to do about the Mando armor, off the top off my head, maybe make it the same as RIS except perhaps make RIS vulnerable to lightsaber damage and allow mando to have the same resists to lightsaber as it will all others. After all, it IS Bounty Hunter armor, so it should be the premier armor for hunting jedi, who WILL NEED SOME POPULATION CONTROL COME AUGUST 2. Any jedi not approaching master level should have to think twice before engaging a BH wearing Mandolorian armor.
To me all this just seems so logical, the community may have differing opinions or ideas that make my proposed ones better, please post them here and lets put this all on the "In-Concept board". I already linked this thread there.
The AS correspondant can really make a HUGE contribution to the game by passing this along to the right people. I see our armor situation as one of two issues really skewing gameplay to the negative. And feel a great many things that dev's are working to "fix" could be handled in one stroke by implementing this kind of change.
Binstubbs
Wed Jun 23, 2004 1:53 pm
#10
Dang, I kinda hijacked this thread didn't I?
Sorry, I felt this was a pretty relevant to the posters concern. I just got a little long-winded
Ryche_Mykola
Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:39 pm
#11
Composite is only craftable by Master Armorsmiths, and thusly so, it SHOULD be the best armor. (RIS and Mando should be better of course). Thats like saying DLT-20a's should be fixed to be made comparable to a T21.
Putting more vulnerabilities into Composite isn't the solution either. Lets say you make Comp Acid and Stun vuln, It will make people just go to those professions to get that weapon cert (ie, BH to use Scatter, Rifleman to use DSXR-6b, Pistoleer to use Geo Pistol), what do the Melee professions do then? I don't think there is an acid based melee weapon. So they'll start complaining.
Imagine having a Krayt DSXR-6b also with an Acid vuln in Comp, you'll consistently 1 shot kill almost everyone.
Having too many Vulnerabilities in armor will just make people stop wearing it in PvP.
If the devs got off there asses and made factional armor craftable, and the same as Composite as far as experimenting, i could guarantee it would be a lil mini boost to the GCW. It would be more inline with the game seeing lots of players in Stormtrooper armor than in Composite also.
XackAttacK
Thu Jun 24, 2004 12:17 am
#12
Very, very nice post. I hope they keep the resists on armor the same, except make the lower-level armor (like you said) exceptionally protective for what it is made for - so it's not just composite/ubese purchases only. If the devs really do nerf us that bad, I'm going weaponsmith....
Binstubbs wrote:
If I had my say........
They would leave buffs/armor the way they are HOWEVER....
Armor would have specific purposes, for example.....
Bone armor----would still be for noobs to think they look cool in
Mabari Armor---would have the type of effect that good comp has now but only on, say, heat damage
Tantel armor---would be exceptional for lightsaber damage
Padded armor----would be exceptional for kinetic damage (makes sense, it's PADDED, would you rather fall from a cliff onto a stack of pillows or on some ceramic/metal composite heap?)
Ubese---would be exceptional for stun damage
Composite----would be exceptional for electricity
Chitin----would be exceptional for energy
You get the general idea here. I'm not saying it would HAVE to break down like this, although i do feel padded is most logical for kinetic resists, but each suit should have a damage type, or possibly two,that no other suit can approach as far as resists are concerned. Perhaps cap out those non-specializeddamages on suits at 30% resist.
THIS IN ITSELF IS ALL THE COMBAT BALANCE THIS GAME NEEDS.
There is no way anyone with any real sense would want to carry every suit type, every type of weapon they need to affect every suit, and still be able to carry their loot, materials, stims, etc etc. Of course some will, more power to em, I can change guns faster than they can change armor.
By implementing something like this you would have to take into more consideration what you are up against during combat/PvP. Fat lot of good your composite suit will do you when the commando turns it into a person shaped oven with his flamethrower, fat lot of good your padded suit is going to do you when the TKM you get a tef on pulls out his DX2 pistol. See how this balances things out?
To take this a step further, implement acid damage on all spitting creatures' ranged attacks. Granted I dont want to have to wear a different suit for every type of beast but if all critters did either kinetic damage or acid damage, or both, then hunting would require a bit more than 10k for a buff and 100k for a ubese suit, and voila! invincibility
This would be GREAT for the profession as well because now you have variety in crafting, an armorsmith can choose to specialize in Chitin since it protects great against acid, or can specialize in composite since it protects great against those pesky dark jedi lightning bolts.
To balance out the PvE side of things, maybe cap out the maximum resists at 50% or 60%, with buffs this is AMPLE protection, but you wont be able to aggro an entire enraged rancor lair and survive it.
Anyway if you think this is a good concept let's pass it along the SOE chain of command til it falls upon the right set of ears (well eyes, technically). I honestly believe this sort of change would be more than healthy for the game.
Dahia
Thu Jun 24, 2004 2:55 am
#13
About time they are nerfing it.
And who we have to thank for it the ARMORSMITHS them self. Making 80%+ armor is notgood for the game.
And then when SOE is doing something about it, so we have some more gameplay, they are gonna cry for it.
Armor for 250k is TOO much.
Armotsmiths are the richest people on the servers atm, and SOE don't like to see that players are multi-millionairs and can buy what ever they want. (this i found on a different forum, told by SOE themself)
But with the new space expansion comming out, the next billionairs will be the Shipwrights. (maybe start nerfing them now too).
With the space expansion there is an option of putting armorsmiths / weaponsmiths in it too.
Let them make the shield generators and weapons on the ships...
If u ask me they should let us make more different kind of armor and Bio Engineerd stuff (like bleeding def, healing capability etc.)
Some Proffesion only worn too with special protection for them
Pikeman/ sword/ fencer/ TKA : have to be fast and egile=>low encumbrace, low protection to all except Kinetic.
Carbine:do not need speed/ agility => higher encumbrace, some med protection to all.
Pistoleer : need speed/agility => low encumbrace and low/med protection
Rifleman : do not need speed/agility or high armor => low encumbrace, low protection
Commando : heavy weapons players => high encumbrace, high protection.
Bounty hunters : need speed and damage => medium encumbrace, medium armor.
Medics : need speed => low encumbrace and low armor rate.
make the encumbrace effect the players speed etc. and u got a good armor system
Then rebalance the weapons and the combat system is getting better.
After that nerf the Combat Medics poison, docs buffs and you have a perfect combat system
There always will be people crying that it ain't fair to their proffession and that they will be left behind, compared to others.
The combat balance shouldn't stop with armor / weapons / specials for proffesions, but also keep going on in the future and on creatures too. Then SOE will be making a good game, maybe it will turn out fine, maybe not.
But let us all just watch after publish 11 what it is....
Dahia Lama
Master armorsmith/ tailor/ artisan on Infinity
Wanna be a shipwright
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