CUEmu - Thread Posts

Okeefe

Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:09 am

Wondering if anyone has done any research on which pieces of armor actually do what. We all know the standard attacks, such as kinetic, energy or whatever should be affected by whatever piece of armor that gets hit. Therefore all pieces should be built to withstand the so-called 'normal' attacks.

I know many AS's that do not layer the arms, as theory goes that arms are not hit that often, and this seems to play out by how many people don't bother wearing composite arms at all, and not layering these 4 pieces helps reduce HAM.

Then there is Stun. Ostensibly stun should only deal with the head area, and yet you see that complete Stun Composite suits are becoming all the rage. Does it matter if you have stun protection in your boots, gloves, legs?

I can make 80% Elec (or whatever layer you like) 62% base with reasonable HAM. To make the 80% spec, 69% base HAM goes up considerably, and if I make the 39% Stun, 77% Elec, 68% base, the HAM gets very heavy. (all this is unsliced of course).

I would prefer to customize each piece or pieces as to exactly what they need to do. Ie: Kinetic legs, boots, gloves, Blast Chest, Stun Helm, if SOE actually went to the trouble of making armor react to damage the way it should.

Any thoughts?

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Manmas-Fin

Mon Jun 21, 2004 3:52 am

#2

Hmm, it is debateable. Legs - energy for the carbineers. Helmet - Stun for the riflemen and pisoleers. Chest - Highest base and sliced as high as possible for everything. For the rest I am not too sure...

Jedi-to-be

Andymantium

Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:58 am

#3

Special attacks will be target-specific (i.e. /headshot --> helmet, /legshot --> legs , etc). The default auto-attack has a chance of hitting any part of the body.

K

Okeefe

Mon Jun 21, 2004 7:32 pm

#4

"Special attacks will be target-specific (i.e. /headshot --> helmet, /legshot --> legs , etc). The default auto-attack has a chance of hitting any part of the body."

Well, that is the THEORY. But as we all know, for the most part, SWG is an excercise in reducing code rather than any attempt at real time combat. So do we KNOW that these attacks hit those areas, or are these simply assumptions.

I ask this because, from everything I have seen in the game, The game simply does a dice roll and deducts points. There are no actual weapon 'trajectories' like in AC, where the machine calculated an arc for a range weapon then looked to see if you crossed it at the right time. There is no such thing as 'zigzagging' to reduce being hit by range weapons, the game just does a calculation based on the shooter's skill vs your defense skills and rolls the dice. The game will randomly pick a piece of armor for auto attacks and say you were hit there, but I have seen no evidence that any of the specials hit anywhere in particular.

If the specials work as advertised, then one would want Stun layered helms, Energy Legs, and whatever flavor of the day rifle protection in the chest area. However since T-21's are Heavy AP armor is pretty much wasted against them anyway.

I was in a fight today where I was hit for 165 points damage, my helmstopped 65 points (which points to a specific area, btw), and my 'def buffs'mitigated 104....Yet my mind was dropping like a rock...According tothe math, I should be gaining points....(silly, I know)

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Andymantium

Tue Jun 22, 2004 6:37 am

#5

Okeefe wrote:

"Special attacks will be target-specific (i.e. /headshot --> helmet, /legshot --> legs , etc). The default auto-attack has a chance of hitting any part of the body."

Well, that is the THEORY. But as we all know, for the most part, SWG is an excercise in reducing code rather than any attempt at real time combat. So do we KNOW that these attacks hit those areas, or are these simply assumptions.

I ask this because, from everything I have seen in the game, The game simply does a dice roll and deducts points. There are no actual weapon 'trajectories' like in AC, where the machine calculated an arc for a range weapon then looked to see if you crossed it at the right time. There is no such thing as 'zigzagging' to reduce being hit by range weapons, the game just does a calculation based on the shooter's skill vs your defense skills and rolls the dice. The game will randomly pick a piece of armor for auto attacks and say you were hit there, but I have seen no evidence that any of the specials hit anywhere in particular.

If the specials work as advertised, then one would want Stun layered helms, Energy Legs, and whatever flavor of the day rifle protection in the chest area. However since T-21's are Heavy AP armor is pretty much wasted against them anyway.

I was in a fight today where I was hit for 165 points damage, my helmstopped 65 points (which points to a specific area, btw), and my 'def buffs'mitigated 104....Yet my mind was dropping like a rock...According tothe math, I should be gaining points....(silly, I know)

Well, I don't have any hard numbers (just word-of-mouth tests from friends), but I would think that the majority of targeted attacks do hit the right place...there may be some spillover, but likely not anything statistically significant..

Also, could you explain that last paragraph? I'm a little confused

K

Okeefe

Wed Jun 23, 2004 2:08 am

#6

"Also, could you explain that last paragraph? I'm a little confused "

I was in a fight today where the combat chat said:

XXXXXXused xxxxxxx attack on you for 165 points damage

Your 39% Stun helmstopped 65 points of damage

Yourdefense buffsmitigated 104 points of damage

Several of these in a row andmy mind was droppingfast even though, according tothe math, I should be gaining points....(silly, I know)since I covered 169 points and was only hit for 165 points.

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DirthNader

Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:50 am

#7

Andymantium wrote:

Well, I don't have any hard numbers (just word-of-mouth tests from friends), but I would think that the majority of targeted attacks do hit the right place...there may be some spillover, but likely not anything statistically significant...

The majority of worthy PvP attacks are random HAM. Scatter hit for fencers, crippling shot for carbineers, last ditch shot for smugglers, stopping shot for pistoleers, spray shot for bounty hunters, every meleehit3, etc. Those shots are going to hit a "random" pool, which in SWGmeans thatattack has a55% chance to hit health, a 30% chance to hit action, or a 15% chance to hit mind.

Sure, having stun protection in your helmet will save you from riflemen spamming head shots with his jawa ion rifle, but the instant he swithes to spamming advanced strafe that Jawa's going right through your stun vunerable chest, pants, boots, etc.

The artist formerly known as Ittov

Asir_SWG

Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:06 am

#8

Okeefe - I think the reason may be that the combat spam does not come out in the same order the system works out the damage, I think the correct order should be something like...

Yourdefense buffsmitigated 104 points of damage

XXXXXXused xxxxxxx attack on you for 165 points damage

Your 39% Stun helmstopped 65 points of damage

Thus you got hit for 100 points of damage...

ERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHA
MSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTE
RHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAM
STERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTER
HAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMS
TERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERH
AMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMST
ERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHA
~~MSTERHAMSTERHAMSTERHAMSTE~~

Kiom

Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:22 am

#9

Why would you think that stun is only needed in the helm? I agree that you want stun maxed in the helm but you have to consider a stun baton and geno pistol too. Without at least one stun layer in your other pieces you will get owned very fast.

For the reason posted above, you could argue that max stun in all pieces (if you can still get 69%+ base) is the way to go (and hope for eff slices).

Monroe Glesn - Distant cousin of Kiom
Master Tailor

Andymantium

Wed Jun 23, 2004 10:36 am

#10

DirthNader wrote:

Andymantium wrote:

Well, I don't have any hard numbers (just word-of-mouth tests from friends), but I would think that the majority of targeted attacks do hit the right place...there may be some spillover, but likely not anything statistically significant...

The majority of worthy PvP attacks are random HAM. Scatter hit for fencers, crippling shot for carbineers, last ditch shot for smugglers, stopping shot for pistoleers, spray shot for bounty hunters, every meleehit3, etc. Those shots are going to hit a "random" pool, which in SWGmeans thatattack has a55% chance to hit health, a 30% chance to hit action, or a 15% chance to hit mind.

Sure, having stun protection in your helmet will save you from riflemen spamming head shots with his jawa ion rifle, but the instant he swithes to spamming advanced strafe that Jawa's going right through your stun vunerable chest, pants, boots, etc.

Yeah you're right...I was a bit vague in my post, but I was referring to the /headshots, /legshots, and whatever other /shots targeted a particular part of the body.

It seems to me that full stun composite suits are the way to go for pvp.

K

Okeefe

Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:10 pm

#11

"Okeefe - I think the reason may be that the combat spam does not come out in the same order the system works out the damage, I think the correct order should be something like...

Yourdefense buffsmitigated 104 points of damage

XXXXXXused xxxxxxx attack on you for 165 points damage

Your 39% Stun helmstopped 65 points of damage

Thus you got hit for 100 points of damage..."

Ummm no, in the fight there were dozens of these in a row, all the same, with other things in between . I was told by the person fighting me that you have to add an addittional 30% or so to the damage number to get a 'REAL' number, but this is just heresay.

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Okeefe

Wed Jun 23, 2004 6:22 pm

#12

"Why would you think that stun is only needed in the helm? I agree that you want stun maxed in the helm but you have to consider a stun baton and geno pistol too. Without at least one stun layer in your other pieces you will get owned very fast."

I am not assuming, hece this thread. I would like to know for sure.

However, assumptions come from our view on how things work. Ie: with a melee weapon one can see stun coming from being hit on the head. No other body part is going to 'stun' you. You could get the wind knocked out of you with a lower chest hit, but that is not really stun, at least in my books. However, a Taser could stun you hitting you almost anywhere, so if we are to 'assume' that Stun batons are, in fact, a taser type of weapon then having stun armor all over makes sense.

"For the reason posted above, you could argue that max stun in all pieces (if you can still get 69%+ base) is the way to go (and hope for eff slices)."

Yes, if the SB is indeed a Taser type weapon. If it is I want to see it needed recharging after X number of uses! :^)

The problem with any of the random attacks is that they are pretty much useless in a fight because most can buff/spice/food/PSG/armor to the point where Health and Action are almost impervious to any attack, except poison. Also it takes 3x as many random damage hits to down someone as you basically have to lower all 3 pools to see which one will run out first, meanwhile your oponent has picked one pool and knocked you into next week.As a result, the Mind attack has become the defactostandard in the game and most simply spam mind attacks.Even with armor, psgs, etc Stun is still the least defendable attack there is, and the only unhealable one.

This will all change, of course, with the revamp, I was more interested in how the game handles the damage/armor cacluclation

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Okeefe

Thu Jun 24, 2004 4:13 pm

#13

"Here's how it works:

You are reduced by buffs, not by armor in this case, beacuse buffs are higher. Thus, you'll see 61 dmg go through. I find it's an either or situation... whichever is higher tends to get used, and the other is just thrown away. I used to see that my armor protected more then the buffs, and I'd get hit for the dmg - dmg blocked by armor. I dont think it's working correctly, but this is how it works for me..."

This is how it eems to me too. But this would mean that as long as your buffed to the nines, armor is irrelevant! It seems to work this way as you can go in with all your buffs on and recieve very little damage, but as soon as your synthsteak and/or PSG let go, you take damage like crazy, even though your still in armor. (assuming your wearing armor in the 60% range or less.)

I will have to try this out with some 85-90% armor and see if there is less dramatic change once the buffs run out.

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Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Has anyone done any recent research?