Armorsmith Archive
Thread: ENOUGH. Lets get back on track. How can we make the CURB AS better?
ZionHalcyon wrote:I decided it would be helpful to revisit these, and point out a couple things. Take a browse - my stuff in yellow.
Okram2k wrote:1: The new experimentation system.It is extremly over simplified, and now is too easy to use. There is now no reason to become a 12 point smith anymore, in fact not even a reason to hold out your experimentations for amazing succeses. Since about 90% of the player base hardly notices armor condition, it is doubtful crafters will also, and only put it into them as an after thought. Every crafter will put as many points as possible into resists, and then if they have a point left over, throw it into condition and yawn. This now gives very little difference between one type of armor to the next.The best proposed idea to change this, is to return to the system of seperating base resistances, and special resistance. This time, special resistance in armors is energy/kinetic. And base would be all other damage types. How about we split resistance experimentation bar into two seperate bars, Experimenting into the base bar lifts all elemental damage types, experimenting into the special protection bar lifts energy and/or kinetic based off of the type of armor it is. I think the best way would be a 75/25 distribution for armors that are supposed to have a bonus to energy or kinetic. And than a 50/50 distrubition for armors that are supposed to have equal resistances. This idea still keeps in the encumberance limits that you have implemented upon us, which I doubt there is very little leeway.Agree and have been behind this since day 1.Agree
2: Resources, Resources, Resources.Resources in the CU are all over the place. I can understand the need to change some things here and there, howerver there are two very large problems that need to be tacked. First, the huge increase in the requirement of organic hide. Especially with the lack of any attention given to ranger, organics are going to become more and more expensive as they are harder and harder to aquire. That means that the price of armor is going to sky rocket after the CU. It's already fairly expensive on live servers, but I would expect prices of armor to jump up at least 25% if not 50% when the CU hits live. Also, a lot of our named resources are not having as much use as we'd hoped. Some are starting to feel that the devs just wanted to make a clean wipe on our crafting profession because of the many vast changes. Named resources, some of which are extremly rare, are being found all along the layers, making one wonder if layered armor is even going to be a possibilty.- This is something that I don't think will change. My impression is that they put all these new things in to get everyone on the ground level again. Therefore, people who could not compete well in the market before will be able to catch up. I know the older crafters will hate this, but from a game perspective, it would lead to a much healthier economy.Why can't this change? They've already agreed to reduce some amounts of resources. There have been other posts with suggestions on what to substitute. I've never done WS, but I've heard they have a ton of named resources. I can't believe its this many though. While the Devs may not want to change it, to ask for some change is certainly reasonable.
3: Being helpless to encumberanceThe best of the best smiths on live have strives to bring armor that is both light AND effective. Now that dream is completly gone. We arenow a slave to the encumberance of our armors. If you make too good of armor, nobody will want it because it will slow them down too much. And the only way to make low encumberance armor will be to make low stat armor that nobody is going to want. This problem is further exemplified by us trying to fill armor for th ose who are working up their profession. If they just started they're gonna want one type of armor, then half way through they're gonna want another, then another, and then another when they master. Armorsmiths are turning into weaponsmiths with having to keep up a huge variety of stock, except with huge organics requirements in that stock, and costs of armor that is going to zap players of their resources, and get us labeled as greedy crafters even worse than now..- This is something else that I don't think will change. All hinderances will become obsolete once someone masters their profession that is certed for that armor - it is all mitigated away. Therefore, experimenting on hinderances/encumberance would unbalance the game.I'm not a combat guy, so haven't been following the hindrances closely, but how do we know they become obsolete once they hit master? Has this been tested on TC?
4: Factory ProductionIt looks now with a huge variety of enhancers at every stage in armor, that it is the goal of developers to inhibit mass production of armor. Yet mass producing is the only way we can keep up with demand. There's half a dozen types of armors available, which can all have identicle stats. So players decide what type of armor they want, that's great for the players. But there's no color customization kits like we thought there would be, this means that either players are all going to have the same colors of armor as the next guy (remember when you would go to the starpot and see everyone in comp, and in the same exact color). Also, with enhancers all across the board in every stage of armor, players are going to want armor that uses all these new thingies. Players have come to expect the best from armor on a regular basis. We where able to mass produce armor, and give it to players en mass. Now we can only mass produce sub par products, while players that really play the game, and expect to be uber leet (see: PVP'ers, hardcore gamers, Hard core PvE'ers, power grinders, and anyone that plays the game more than two hours at a time) will expect armorsmiths to bend over backwards to utilize all this new loot system that has been implemented. .- Totally agreed. Factories need to have downtime reduced, and adding armor color kits would be a boost for the economy. However, with regards to player expectation, that is going to be dealt with in terms of a CURB adjustment period for everyone, so expecting a change based on that portion is unrealistic.Agree on the reduction of factories. And I'd rather see color kits on all armors than just Composite if we are allowed to change color. Although part of me still likes the idea of the armorsmith coloring it. Otherwise why even have the option in the crafting process.
While it is nice that we can have a customization level like weapons, we are in fear that people will expect every piece of armor to be like this. Just like people only use krayt/acklay/gorax weapons when they pvp. This could become a logistical nightmare, especially in chest pieces, which require a huge number of components now, which will mean a huge number of loot components. .- Unfortunately, this is just speculation which cannot be acted upon until we are already in the CURB. We have no idea really what is "good" or "bad" absolutely, and until we figure that out, this really can't be addressed.True..but its been said that the Devs assumed that loot items would be the differentiator.
5: Armor Certification systemThis is a nail in the coffin to some members of our community. Telling players they can't wear this armor because they don't know how to shoot that type of gun. We could have lived with wearing armor and accepting large encumberances if you whern't certed, and have less resistances, but to outright say you can't wear your armor, even armor you crafted yourself, is a slap in the face to us. And I have a feeling crafters of other professions feel the same way. I have a suit of RIS I made for myself, one of my finest achievments that I am hugely proud of, and wear on a regular basis to big events, that now all I can do is let sit on the mantle. Further, I wear padded armor for decorative purpouses, because I think it looks good, that I will never be able to wear again. It's like the devs are telling us nobody is supposed to be an all crafter, and that this game doesn't really want us around..- This won't be changing, because it is what keeps the whole thing in balance. The CURB as designed NEEDS certification for balance.While they won't give up certifications overall, they could either 1) allow a certification for non-combat professions or 2) allow people to wear armor, but if not certified have very heavy penalties in combat.
6: Faction ArmorWell player crafter armor is all going to be pretty similar now that the expermintation line has been simplified, and if we have the same resources, will be completly mirrored. And getting faction armor takes as much FP as before, possibly taking more FP to get armor bio linked than it is to buy it in the current system if your side has enough of a discount on a certain planet. Soon players are going to wonder why we even made it craftable, when it's just turned into a huge faction sink that nobody is going to pay for when another type of armor is available, for cheaper, that doesn't require any FP to get bio linked. I can expectoto pay probably hundreds of thousands to get the fp from a smuggler so I can buy the schematics. Which I am going to have to add to the price, which is going to be put right next to pieces of armor with identicle stats at a lower price, which if a player does pay more for same quality items, will cost the player a large amount of FP to use. And then someone else can't wear their armor once it's bio linked if they say decided to switch profesions and give their armor that they are no longer certaifed for to someone else.- I don't think bio-linking will be changing, because they want there to be a faction cost for faction armor, and so people can't just buy faction, get a ton or armor, and give it out to their friends when they are not using it, thus eliminating the need to really buy faction armor. Keep in mind that with faction armor, there is a need for it for it to tie into the FP system, so as such, crafting faction armor for anyone to use destroys immersion, as you can have imps wearing reb stuff, and vice versa without the bio-linking.That said, they need to reduce the FP cost on the player end, to make Faction Armor viable.Agreed on reducing the cost. But instead of bio-linking they could make it so only rebs wear reb armor and imp wear imp armor. Isn't that what they do already?
My comments in orange.
Ok, mine in yellow again - GOOD discussion!!!
Kelloch wrote:
Why can't this change? They've already agreed to reduce some amounts of resources. There have been other posts with suggestions on what to substitute. I've never done WS, but I've heard they have a ton of named resources. I can't believe its this many though. While the Devs may not want to change it, to ask for some change is certainly reasonable.
I think that it could change in that it can be reduced, and a resource be tweaked here and there, but overall, I can't see a massive change - just possibly another reduction. Still, I agree that the question should be asked; we just should also be prepared for a "no", and not carry on if that is the case (provided we did our due dilligence and presented the devs with a fact-filled reasoning in the first place).
I'm not a combat guy, so haven't been following the hindrances closely, but how do we know they become obsolete once they hit master? Has this been tested on TC?
Yes, it has been tested, and also confirmed in a dev post. The hinderances will effectively be nil for a master in a profession regarding the armor he or she is certed for. That is why hinderance is a fixed value - so a master in a profession can be guaranteed no hinderance for any armor, while a novice has to make a tactical choice of protection or maneuverability. It's a mechanism to reward people who finish an elite profession.
Agree on the reduction of factories. And I'd rather see color kits on all armors than just Composite if we are allowed to change color. Although part of me still likes the idea of the armorsmith coloring it. Otherwise why even have the option in the crafting process.
I am with you there on color kits. I would prefer not to have them, but if the overall community wants them, then that is something I feel worth going to bat for.
While they won't give up certifications overall, they could either 1) allow a certification for non-combat professions or 2) allow people to wear armor, but if not certified have very heavy penalties in combat.
I think that out of both of them, #1 is most likely. Unless they have clothing built with protective elements as an alternative. Also, keep in mind, one of the goals of the CURB is to encourage interaction with everyone, so we might need to work with a Ranger or a combat type to go with us to plant and collect harvestors. They are trying to make the game less solo-friendly, except when grinding a combat profession. Not saying I agree or disagree - just pointing out the angle the devs have coming at this.
Agreed on reducing the cost. But instead of bio-linking they could make it so only rebs wear reb armor and imp wear imp armor. Isn't that what they do already?
I am not sure how, but there are ways around that in the current system. I have seen Rebs in ST armor and Imp uniforms, and Imps with marine armor, and I think the bio-linking is a way to combat that, along with the additional factional cost needed to initially equip the armor.
I think the reasoning behind Bio-linking would be something worth knowing, before we write it off completely, in case there is a mechanism we are missing.
My comments in orange.
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
Zion,
The only thing worse than what is going to happen to this profession, and there reallly isn't too much left, would be if someone like yourself would become correspondant. You obviously just don't get it.CURB might not be the death of this profession, but it is certainly the death of what makes this fun for the vast majority of people.
No amount of whining on your part will make anyone think that the CURB will not $uck (it will), that ANY suggestions at this point will be reflected in any meaningful changes in CURB (they won't), or that people will listen to you for "being the voice of reason" (not gonna happen). There is a time to pi$$ed off, and this is it.
People who know you have said that you are really not a very great armorsmith. Based on your opinions, you either don't know or don't care about what the majority of us who are good think.
A forum correspondant is first and foremost an advocate for the profession at large, and you sir, are NOT it.
JB
12 point armorsmith
CURB SWG memory
jbdotcom wrote:
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
Zion,
The only thing worse than what is going to happen to this profession, and there reallly isn't too much left, would be if someone like yourself would become correspondant. You obviously just don't get it.CURB might not be the death of this profession, but it is certainly the death of what makes this fun for the vast majority of people.
No amount of whining on your part will make anyone think that the CURB will not $uck (it will), that ANY suggestions at this point will be reflected in any meaningful changes in CURB (they won't), or that people will listen to you for "being the voice of reason" (not gonna happen). There is a time to pi$$ed off, and this is it.
People who know you have said that you are really not a very great armorsmith. Based on your opinions, you either don't know or don't care about what the majority of us who are good think.
A forum correspondant is first and foremost an advocate for the profession at large, and you sir, are NOT it.
JB
12 point armorsmith
CURB SWG memory
Get a varying lvl of combat profs which are certified for armor.
Produce player crafted armor for standard, basic and advanced types of the recon, battle and assault armors. We could also test armors made using looted components but the frogs aren't working.
Test the armor in a variety of situations against a varying lvl of mobs, such as = to player combat lvl to the extreme being very overpowered compared to the player, grouped and ungrouped.
Do exactly the same thing with out wearing armor.
From the data collected gauge the effectiveness of the armor and how much damage the lvl v lvl negates.
If there is a marginal difference which doesn't warrant the current amount of resources and therefore cost we can ask the new correspondent to add this to our issues list. If there is a major difference then we can try and reduce the cost of production and production time by raising this issue to the devs using proper channels.
hope that makes sense.