Armorsmith Archive
Thread: ENOUGH. Lets get back on track. How can we make the CURB AS better?
dumbing down the system is not the answer...it is the easy way out...The only challenge in the new system will be to collect the new resources and wait for my factories to finish....
ZionHalcyon wrote:
I decided it would be helpful to revisit these, and point out a couple things. Take a browse - my stuff in yellow.
Okram2kwrote:
1: The new experimentation system.
It is extremly over simplified, and now is too easy to use. There is now no reason to become a 12 point smith anymore, in fact not even a reason to hold out your experimentations for amazing succeses. Since about 90% of the player base hardly notices armor condition, it is doubtful crafters will also, and only put it into them as an after thought. Every crafter will put as many points as possible into resists, and then if they have a point left over, throw it into condition and yawn. This now gives very little difference between one type of armor to the next.
The best proposed idea to change this, is to return to the system of seperating base resistances, and special resistance. This time, special resistance in armors is energy/kinetic. And base would be all other damage types. How about we split resistance experimentation bar into two seperate bars, Experimenting into the base bar lifts all elemental damage types, experimenting into the special protection bar lifts energy and/or kinetic based off of the type of armor it is. I think the best way would be a 75/25 distribution for armors that are supposed to have a bonus to energy or kinetic. And than a 50/50 distrubition for armors that are supposed to have equal resistances. This idea still keeps in the encumberance limits that you have implemented upon us, which I doubt there is very little leeway. - Agree and have been behind this since day 1.
2: Resources, Resources, Resources.
Resources in the CU are all over the place. I can understand the need to change some things here and there, howerver there are two very large problems that need to be tacked. First, the huge increase in the requirement of organic hide. Especially with the lack of any attention given to ranger, organics are going to become more and more expensive as they are harder and harder to aquire. That means that the price of armor is going to sky rocket after the CU. It's already fairly expensive on live servers, but I would expect prices of armor to jump up at least 25% if not 50% when the CU hits live. Also, a lot of our named resources are not having as much use as we'd hoped. Some are starting to feel that the devs just wanted to make a clean wipe on our crafting profession because of the many vast changes. Named resources, some of which are extremly rare, are being found all along the layers, making one wonder if layered armor is even going to be a possibilty.- This is something that I don't think will change. My impression is that they put all these new things in to get everyone on the ground level again. Therefore, people who could not compete well in the market before will be able to catch up. I know the older crafters will hate this, but from a game perspective, it would lead to a much healthier economy.
3: Being helpless to encumberance
The best of the best smiths on live have strives to bring armor that is both light AND effective. Now that dream is completly gone. We arenow a slave to the encumberance of our armors. If you make too good of armor, nobody will want it because it will slow them down too much. And the only way to make low encumberance armor will be to make low stat armor that nobody is going to want. This problem is further exemplified by us trying to fill armor for th ose who are working up their profession. If they just started they're gonna want one type of armor, then half way through they're gonna want another, then another, and then another when they master. Armorsmiths are turning into weaponsmiths with having to keep up a huge variety of stock, except with huge organics requirements in that stock, and costs of armor that is going to zap players of their resources, and get us labeled as greedy crafters even worse than now.
.- This is something else that I don't think will change. All hinderances will become obsolete once someone masters their profession that is certed for that armor - it is all mitigated away. Therefore, experimenting on hinderances/encumberance would unbalance the game.
4: Factory Production
It looks now with a huge variety of enhancers at every stage in armor, that it is the goal of developers to inhibit mass production of armor. Yet mass producing is the only way we can keep up with demand. There's half a dozen types of armors available, which can all have identicle stats. So players decide what type of armor they want, that's great for the players. But there's no color customization kits like we thought there would be, this means that either players are all going to have the same colors of armor as the next guy (remember when you would go to the starpot and see everyone in comp, and in the same exact color). Also, with enhancers all across the board in every stage of armor, players are going to want armor that uses all these new thingies. Players have come to expect the best from armor on a regular basis. We where able to mass produce armor, and give it to players en mass. Now we can only mass produce sub par products, while players that really play the game, and expect to be uber leet (see: PVP'ers, hardcore gamers, Hard core PvE'ers, power grinders, and anyone that plays the game more than two hours at a time) will expect armorsmiths to bend over backwards to utilize all this new loot system that has been implemented. .- Totally agreed. Factories need to have downtime reduced, and adding armor color kits would be a boost for the economy. However,with regards to player expectation, that is going to be dealt within terms of a CURB adjustment period for everyone, so expecting a change based on that portion is unrealistic.
While it is nice that we can have a customization level like weapons, we are in fear that people will expect every piece of armor to be like this. Just like people only use krayt/acklay/gorax weapons when they pvp. This could become a logistical nightmare, especially in chest pieces, which require a huge number of components now, which will mean a huge number of loot components. .- Unfortunately, this is just speculation which cannot be acted upon until we are already in the CURB. We have no idea really what is "good" or "bad" absolutely, and until we figure that out, this really can't be addressed.
5: Armor Certification system
This is a nail in the coffin to some members of our community. Telling players they can't wear this armor because they don't know how to shoot that type of gun. We could have lived with wearing armor and accepting large encumberances if you whern't certed, and have less resistances, but to outright say you can't wear your armor, even armor you crafted yourself, is a slap in the face to us. And I have a feeling crafters of other professions feel the same way. I have a suit of RIS I made for myself, one of my finest achievments that I am hugely proud of, and wear on a regular basis to big events, that now all I can do is let sit on the mantle. Further, I wear padded armor for decorative purpouses, because I think it looks good, that I will never be able to wear again. It's like the devs are telling us nobody is supposed to be an all crafter, and that this game doesn't really want us around..- This won't be changing, because it is what keeps the whole thing in balance. The CURB as designed NEEDS certification for balance.
6: Faction Armor
Well player crafter armor is all going to be pretty similar now that the expermintation line has been simplified, and if we have the same resources, will be completly mirrored. And getting faction armor takes as much FP as before, possibly taking more FP to get armor bio linked than it is to buy it in the current system if your side has enough of a discount on a certain planet. Soon players are going to wonder why we even made it craftable, when it's just turned into a huge faction sink that nobody is going to pay for when another type of armor is available, for cheaper, that doesn't require any FP to get bio linked. I can expectoto pay probably hundreds of thousands to get the fp from a smuggler so I can buy the schematics. Which I am going to have to add to the price, which is going to be put right next to pieces of armor with identicle stats at a lower price, which if a player does pay more for same quality items, will cost the player a large amount of FP to use. And then someone else can't wear their armor once it's bio linked if they say decided to switch profesions and give their armor that they are no longer certaifed for to someone else.
- I don't think bio-linking will be changing, because they want there to be a faction cost for faction armor, and so people can't just buy faction, get a ton or armor, and give it out to their friends when they are not using it, thus eliminating the need to really buy faction armor. Keep in mind that with faction armor, there is a need for it for it to tie into the FP system, so as such, crafting faction armor for anyone to use destroys immersion, as you can have imps wearing reb stuff, and vice versa without the bio-linking.
That said, they need to reduce the FP cost on the player end, to make Faction Armor viable.
Grendelwyf wrote:
ya, it was somewhere in the post where he basically equated okram with osama, rofl
Classic case of people putting words in my mouth - I never equated the 2.
*sigh*
Screw it, this is a losing battle anyway. People are going to say I killed the Pope next the way this is going. 
Back to the actual thread.
This reminds me of something regarding a pot and a kettle and the color black, but I can't quite recall it.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
DiceDuP wrote:
We're fedup of brainstorming - we've been doing it for weeks - we bring things to the table - the correspondent voiced many of them - nothing was done OR suggested to us that what we were asking for was wrong, or any options that could be implemented.
Basically, speaking for myself, I and i'm sure many others simply cannot be bothered to put in efforts to think up new ideas and ways of changing it. All that is left is for us to either leave the profession, or take it up the rear and put up with it and attempt to make the best of a bad job. The latter needs no more input from AS or the need for a new correspondent. What's done is done, and thats it. You can attempt to take the lead, but you would be leading a bunch of people that wouldn't listen to you, or give you positive feedback and suggestions. The CU is coming, AS isnt really that important to the balance of combat anymore and that is basically it, there is nothing we can do about it - last nite's actions proved that.
Everything I do, even putting up with people who troll me and wish I would just go away, is out of love for this profession, dedication for this profession. So I am not going anywhere.
You have mocked everyone that has posted here...Saying they can not read is a slap in that person face.
You told me to go away after I posted my thoughts on you post. I never once flamed you, just told you my thoughts on the CU. How did you decide I was trolling?? I was not. I dont know who you are and you have lost any respect you could have had from me and this has come from my first post I have ever replied to you on.
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
j/k
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Grendelwyf wrote:
ya, it was somewhere in the post where he basically equated okram with osama, rofl
Classic case ofmeputtingmy footin my mouth - I never equated the 2.
fixed
*sigh*
Screw it, this is a losing battle anyway. People are going to say I killed the Pope next the way this is going.
I had my suspicions...but Columbo was not available for the investigation....
Back to the actual thread.
Well I'm glad you know the intentions of everyone here.. You asked, I answered..Never flamed..Never said anything bad about your post...You (again) have insulted every post.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
DiceDuP wrote:We're fedup of brainstorming - we've been doing it for weeks - we bring things to the table - the correspondent voiced many of them - nothing was done OR suggested to us that what we were asking for was wrong, or any options that could be implemented.Basically, speaking for myself, I and i'm sure many others simply cannot be bothered to put in efforts to think up new ideas and ways of changing it. All that is left is for us to either leave the profession, or take it up the rear and put up with it and attempt to make the best of a bad job. The latter needs no more input from AS or the need for a new correspondent. What's done is done, and thats it. You can attempt to take the lead, but you would be leading a bunch of people that wouldn't listen to you, or give you positive feedback and suggestions. The CU is coming, AS isnt really that important to the balance of combat anymore and that is basically it, there is nothing we can do about it - last nite's actions proved that.Everything I do, even putting up with people who troll me and wish I would just go away, is out of love for this profession, dedication for this profession. So I am not going anywhere.You have mocked everyone that has posted here...Saying they can not read is a slap in that person face.
You told me to go away after I posted my thoughts on you post. I never once flamed you, just told you my thoughts on the CU. How did you decide I was trolling?? I was not. I dont know who you are and you have lost any respect you could have had from me and this has come from my first post I have ever replied to you on.
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
Message Edited by Rancor418 on 04-15-2005 10:54 AM
Rancor418 wrote:
Well I'm glad you know the intentions of everyone here.. You asked, I answered..Never flamed..Never said anything bad about your post...You (again) have insulted every post.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
DiceDuP wrote:
We're fedup of brainstorming - we've been doing it for weeks - we bring things to the table - the correspondent voiced many of them - nothing was done OR suggested to us that what we were asking for was wrong, or any options that could be implemented.
Basically, speaking for myself, I and i'm sure many others simply cannot be bothered to put in efforts to think up new ideas and ways of changing it. All that is left is for us to either leave the profession, or take it up the rear and put up with it and attempt to make the best of a bad job. The latter needs no more input from AS or the need for a new correspondent. What's done is done, and thats it. You can attempt to take the lead, but you would be leading a bunch of people that wouldn't listen to you, or give you positive feedback and suggestions. The CU is coming, AS isnt really that important to the balance of combat anymore and that is basically it, there is nothing we can do about it - last nite's actions proved that.
Everything I do, even putting up with people who troll me and wish I would just go away, is out of love for this profession, dedication for this profession. So I am not going anywhere.
You have mocked everyone that has posted here...Saying they can not read is a slap in that person face.
You told me to go away after I posted my thoughts on you post. I never once flamed you, just told you my thoughts on the CU. How did you decide I was trolling?? I was not. I dont know who you are and you have lost any respect you could have had from me and this has come from my first post I have ever replied to you on.
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
Message Edited by Rancor418 on 04-15-2005 10:54 AM
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:Well I'm glad you know the intentions of everyone here.. You asked, I answered..Never flamed..Never said anything bad about your post...You (again) have insulted every post.
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
DiceDuP wrote:We're fedup of brainstorming - we've been doing it for weeks - we bring things to the table - the correspondent voiced many of them - nothing was done OR suggested to us that what we were asking for was wrong, or any options that could be implemented.Basically, speaking for myself, I and i'm sure many others simply cannot be bothered to put in efforts to think up new ideas and ways of changing it. All that is left is for us to either leave the profession, or take it up the rear and put up with it and attempt to make the best of a bad job. The latter needs no more input from AS or the need for a new correspondent. What's done is done, and thats it. You can attempt to take the lead, but you would be leading a bunch of people that wouldn't listen to you, or give you positive feedback and suggestions. The CU is coming, AS isnt really that important to the balance of combat anymore and that is basically it, there is nothing we can do about it - last nite's actions proved that.Everything I do, even putting up with people who troll me and wish I would just go away, is out of love for this profession, dedication for this profession. So I am not going anywhere.You have mocked everyone that has posted here...Saying they can not read is a slap in that person face.
You told me to go away after I posted my thoughts on you post. I never once flamed you, just told you my thoughts on the CU. How did you decide I was trolling?? I was not. I dont know who you are and you have lost any respect you could have had from me and this has come from my first post I have ever replied to you on.
That is because you came in here and complained when I specifically asked for people not to, and instead offer insight and comments about the subject matter. And it looked like you did it with full intention of going against the guidelines I asked people to adhere to.
So what am I supposed to make of that, other than you were trolling?
Message Edited by Rancor418 on 04-15-2005 10:54 AM
I reread your comments, and realize that I took them a bit too harshly. Rather, I think I was upset at the lack of constructive thought and the futility in those statements, but the way I reacted to them was uncalled for.I apologize.
Thank you
Grendelwyf wrote:
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Grendelwyf wrote:
ya, it was somewhere in the post where he basically equated okram with osama, rofl
Classic case of people putting words in my mouth - I never equated the 2.
*sigh*
Screw it, this is a losing battle anyway. People are going to say I killed the Pope next the way this is going.
Back to the actual thread.
hm...putting words in your mouth huh? well here are your exact words:
When someone becomes a martyr, there are 2 kinds - the kind that become a martyr because they have done so much good that the world (and not just their community) recognizes them, and then their are the terrorist martyrs, who break the law and die doing something horribly wrong, and is considered a martyr only by the people who have the same, misguided, horribly off-center view that the original had.
Okram was the latter. And that says a lot about you as a community, with a small % of exceptions.
looks to me like you're calling him a terrorist. maybe not osama specifically, but it's basically the same thing. not too mention you take a shot at the entire community as well. keep diggin zion, not too much longer and that whole is gonna be deep enough that you'll never get out.
If that is what you took out of it, then you missed the entire point.
I just have never been a fan of vigilante justice in any form, simply because those doing things in the name of "justice" can often become as bad as those who they are trying to bring to justice.
TheCapn2000 wrote:
group hug
If people can calm down, I'll start passing out the beers.
You seem very interested in getting the position of AS correspondent. Kudos to you, you want to help the community.
You aren't doing yourself any favors though by responding to every negative post against you on these forums.
My advice...type up want you REALLY want to say. Curse, swear, flame....whatever you need to do. BUT....don't post it. Just type it up and stew over it for a minute. Then go back and delete it all and type up a positive response IF and ONLY IF you have something positive to add to the topic. Posting in defense of your current position is not helping you.
Anger is a very strong emotion and it is running rampant throughout this community and I cannot blame them one bit. I'm not too happy with how they treated Oa'kron myself. Let it run its course. Right now you are this little beaver trying to build a dam on the mighty mississippi. It's just not gonna happen. Do what you can to help, but keep in mind that the people you potentially piss off today, may be the same people you are the correspondent for tomorrow. You want them working with you, not against you.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Step back for a few days and let the community work through this on their time. You can still work on your ideas for the AS profession and how to better it. Just don't expect their whole-hearted support right now. Especially when you seem to still point a finger at Oa'kron and say he messed up. Hindsight is 20/20. He made a choice and lived with it. Stop telling us he messed up. We get it.
Good luck in your future as Armorsmith.
RohmEnari wrote:
Zion, if I may, I would like to offer some advice.
You seem very interested in getting the position of AS correspondent. Kudos to you, you want to help the community.
You aren't doing yourself any favors though by responding to every negative post against you on these forums.
My advice...type up want you REALLY want to say. Curse, swear, flame....whatever you need to do. BUT....don't post it. Just type it up and stew over it for a minute. Then go back and delete it all and type up a positive response IF and ONLY IF you have something positive to add to the topic. Posting in defense of your current position is not helping you.
Anger is a very strong emotion and it is running rampant throughout this community and I cannot blame them one bit. I'm not too happy with how they treated Oa'kron myself. Let it run its course. Right now you are this little beaver trying to build a dam on the mighty mississippi. It's just not gonna happen. Do what you can to help, but keep in mind that the people you potentially piss off today, may be the same people you are the correspondent for tomorrow. You want them working with you, not against you.
A closed mouth gathers no foot.
Step back for a few days and let the community work through this on their time. You can still work on your ideas for the AS profession and how to better it. Just don't expect their whole-hearted support right now. Especially when you seem to still point a finger at Oa'kron and say he messed up. Hindsight is 20/20. He made a choice and lived with it. Stop telling us he messed up. We get it.
Good luck in your future as Armorsmith.
Well put and very well considered. Just one point - none of my posts are about "me politicking for Corro" - they are about trying to help the AS community. And the reason I have been more active, is because I saw a need to in order to try to counter the flood of negativity and try to keep us on task. I have been a part of the community and a contributor before this incident.
But yes, you are right - I am like a beaver trying to damn up the Mississippi, and it is pointless.
So I am taking your advice and just trying to work out the kinks, and keep the venting off the forums, unless it is to defend myself on some point.
Thanks for your rational words.