Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Patch 26: Armor upgrades (the armorsmith upgrade) v26.2
Imaridril wrote:
MonKaiku wrote:
HzGuderian wrote:
And as I said originally, the rest of it was very nice, I just disagreed with the factional armor changes. Otherwise, I'm as supportive as a player/AS as any of the others posting here.
people complain about it being too far away from cannon, this would just make it more so
human imperials wouldn't complain, or alien rebels
For every one person that complains about alien Imps, there's ten people that complain about there being more Rebels than Imps. Making it harder to be an Imp would just make things worse. On top of that, I don't think it would make things appear more cannon. Sure, you'd get rid of some alien imps, but at the same time you'd be going against cannon by creating a situation where neutrals and rebels are more prevelant in the galaxy than the supposedly ruling imps. The only way the devs could make things appear cannon the way you want is if they started forcing most players to play only humans. As long as new players can create an alien character as easily as they can create a human character, its going to be impossible to get a game world where aliens are a minority. Personally I'd say go the exact opposite of what you've suggested and get rid of all faction penalties for Imp aliens. This would help increase Imp numbers, which is good for cannon, and good for gameplay.
imp numbers good, imp aliens bad
there are enough jedi around making alts that would have no problem rerolling the alt as a human, or plan ahead to do so (anyone else notice half the jedi make a BH toon, the other half a crafter)
I was jumping for joy, until I realize it was just Skinny's cool ideas. /cry
I support all the ideas 100%. Everything written was well thought out and entertaining.
MonKaiku wrote:
Imaridril wrote:
MonKaiku wrote:
HzGuderian wrote:
And as I said originally, the rest of it was very nice, I just disagreed with the factional armor changes. Otherwise, I'm as supportive as a player/AS as any of the others posting here.
people complain about it being too far away from cannon, this would just make it more so
human imperials wouldn't complain, or alien rebels
For every one person that complains about alien Imps, there's ten people that complain about there being more Rebels than Imps. Making it harder to be an Imp would just make things worse. On top of that, I don't think it would make things appear more cannon. Sure, you'd get rid of some alien imps, but at the same time you'd be going against cannon by creating a situation where neutrals and rebels are more prevelant in the galaxy than the supposedly ruling imps. The only way the devs could make things appear cannon the way you want is if they started forcing most players to play only humans. As long as new players can create an alien character as easily as they can create a human character, its going to be impossible to get a game world where aliens are a minority. Personally I'd say go the exact opposite of what you've suggested and get rid of all faction penalties for Imp aliens. This would help increase Imp numbers, which is good for cannon, and good for gameplay.
imp numbers good, imp aliens bad
there are enough jedi around making alts that would have no problem rerolling the alt as a human, or plan ahead to do so (anyone else notice half the jedi make a BH toon, the other half a crafter)
I think you're overestimating by a lot how many people would reroll, and how many people would choose a human just to play as an imp. The vast majority of players in the game only do PvE, and for those players, the faction they choose is of no major consequence. If being a reb is easier than being an imp, then that is what those players will do. In fact, that's what the playerbase is already doing. Almost every server has more rebels than imps. PvP numbers are generally a little more balanced, since there are PvPers willing to switch sides just to make things more equal, however for PvE, the ratio of imp to rebel playersis clearing in the reb's favor. Players aren't going to reroll as a human, just to stay as an imp, if they can PvE just as well as a reb. Right now the game already has too many players running around in rebel armor vs players running around in imp armor. How will making imp armor harder to get, fix that situation? Also, keep in mind that faction armor isn't a player's only armor option in the game. All in all, all I can see the faction changes you want leading to is a furtherimbalance in the number of rebels vs imps, and of the remaining imps, an even smaller percentage will choose to wear faction armor. Both of which would be bad for the Starwars feel of the game.
While we're dreaming of a better tomorrow, I've come up with a wishlist of improvements I'm hoping Darth Santa could fuffill by Christmas. Armorsmith, like all crafting, was bashed on the rough rocks of the CU and so far left to die a bloody pulpy death. To improve its meaning and add to the fun factor I would suggest the following:
Elemental Damage increased - All Minimum Damage weapons on weapons to be converted to Elemental Type of said weapon, all current elemental damage bonii added to current minimum damage values. Yes, this is more a Weaponsmith and Combat profession upgrade, it would make the variety of weapons more meaningful and address some of the deficiencies in professions where elemental damage types should be a strength (Commando for instance). It has an outstanding effect on Armor as well, by increasing the importance of Elemental resists and giving Armorsmiths a reason to use the other 2/3rds of their currently worthless layers. The fluctuating damage (from Min to Max) would still be applied as either Kinetic or Energy, but base damge should be drawn from all 6 damage types.
Improving the process
Layers: Eliminate the -1 disadvantage on all layers, they are a part of armorsmithing that should be relevant and more instrumental in overall quality of armors resists. Layering should be a fun part of armorsmithing with a wider variety of possible "good" results.
Single Type Layers - Single type layers represent a benefit and detriment relationship as currently defined, Energy vs. Kinetic, Acid vs. Elec., Heat vs. Cold, and Vice versa. Layers assembled at 25% will produce resists of +100/-100 in type/opposite. There will be two lines of experimentation, Increase the plus or Decrease the Minus. 100% Experimentation in "Increase" equals +200, whereas 100% experimentation in "Decrease" results in -0. Due to resource quality and lack of experimentation points to fill both rows perfect +200/-0 layers are impossible, but singularly either attribute can reach that far. To compensate for the potential +1200 to specific resists 1500 will be removed from the Core assembly/experimentation potential (see below).
Advanced Layers - Resists and Opposites of Adv. Layers to remain the same as current Pimus, Secundus, and Tertius layers. The inherent disadvatage of affecting more "types" of damage negatively than positively is more than adequate detriment. Adv. Layers assembled at 25% will produce +75/-75 with experimentable Max/Min of +150/-0 over two rows of experimentation (as above with Single type layers).
Segments: Segments would remain relatively the same with 1000 being the maximum bonus to resists per 100% experimentation in Resists. Segments will have an additional line of experimentation for Condition, +1000 at 25% Assembly with 100% experimentation in Condition resulting in +2500 Condition per segment used (cumulative all the way to final armor assembly).
Cores: As mentioned above, Core resist potential will be decreased to a Maximum of +1500 at 100% experimentation in "Resists". It too will have an additional experimentation row for "Condition" with an experimentable cap of +15,000, +7500 at Min (cumulative per core in final assembly).
Suit Appearances: Final suit Assembly results in +500 to all resists and +5000 condition. All Resists up to and including this point are to be uncapped, resource quality and decisions made determines final attributes not artificial capping. All Condition is cumulative to this point, allowing items that take more cores to have higher condition. Condition range would be 13.5k - 162.5k per piece (72.5k max on 3 core chest)depending on quantity of segments/cores and amount of experimentation spent on condition.
To balance the uncapping of armor resists a soft cap will be enforced using Hinderance. The effects of wearing armor that hinders you currently are pretty drastic, but the effect is poorly used in balancing anything other than wearing better armor before you should. Armor that breaks the soft caps (i.e. same as current 6000, +-1000 Kin. and Ene.) would incur Hinderance proportionately to pre-Smuggler changes Resist Sliced armor. Possibly even tie specific hinderances to specific resist types?. To mitigate this Armorsmiths will have three rows of experimentation in final suit assembly, corresponding to the three types of hinderance. Equal experimentation into the three rows with subcomponents that do not break the soft cap should result in unhindering armor for a properly Certified wearer. Never should a Smith be capable of breaking the soft caps AND creating fully unhindered armor, but they should be able to mitigate any one hinderance, or two and take a larger penalty on the third. This would also open up more armor types for dabblers who only have a few of a professions hinderance mitigations.
Remove hard certifications of all armor, let hinderances be the mitigating decision-maker in which armor people wear. Let non-Combat professions wear armor with appropriate hinderances applied. There is no good reason Armorsmiths cannot wear all the armor they make, its just not unbalancing in the level determined SWG world for anyone to wear armor.
With the above changes everything in armor making and wearing is still balanced, much more meaningful, with tougher decision making options, and more fun. Now on to the fun extras.
While we're at getting Belts, Bandoliers, and Ubese Shirts to be socketable again lets just go ahead and add Boots and Gloves to the mix. Make each piece require 1 core to determine final condition and cost us in resources, leave without resists. Its stupid for these to no longer hold sockets when clothing variants do, whole suits of like armor just look better.
Armor Customization = Colors on the Palette. Master AS should have access to all colors for all armor.
Appearance Enhancers: Added appearance enhancers for the followng factions Rebel, Imperial, Jabba, Corsec, Black Sun, Kerritamba, Valerian, Marauder, Blackscale, Bothan Information Brokerage, etc. Each Appearance enhancer creates a factional "tattoo" on the piece of armor it is added to. Each tattoo adds a bonus of +1 to +10 Mind. Each is a lootable Smuggler made schematic (1-10 uses per) available as a reward in the New smuggling missions. They do something AND change the appearance, neato.
Core Enhancers: All Core enhancers affect Action in a +1 to +25 range. They all drop off creatures only and can be found in stacks of 7-15. Ackley enhancer moved here. Each alters final appearance of armor used on if all cores have a similar enhanement. Gorax hide = +10 - +15 Action and produces a shaggy fur look to final armor, GraulFlanks = +5 - +10 and give armor a striated muscly look, Ackley Hide = +20 - +25 and gives a slimy wet look, Something plated + segmented appearance, etc. Have fun.
RIS Cores: Remove the current Condition advantage of RIS armor and BH Bracers and replace with new RIS hermit quest for RIS Cores. Usable in any armor they provide the condition bonus (+100%) of RIS for any armor. Resource/Component requirements should make mass production very difficult (Asteroid resources? Mustafarian Creature loot? Ewok Spleens?). Additional Benefit of RIS Cores, they all have identical serial numbers or can otherwise be used to hand make suits entirely.
Add Marauder Assault schematics as stealable/droppable from all marauders, make the Mraruader Recon schemes the quest rewards for the old broken Marauder Armor quest at the Fort POI.
Bio-Mechanical Cartridges: Tons of potential here. I love the ideas posted, but think any that infringe to greatly on other professional abilities are highly unrealistic. I would be happy to settle for something that required BE subcomponents and allowed access to all the Combat mods not currently availalbe for clothes. i.e. +Weapon speed, accuracy, and defense. Then incorporate loot or creature drops into them to access the "General" combat mods. +10 bonus = Experimentable cap per cartridge, with current maximum of +25 to any attribute still in effect.
Nightsister Armor: Revamp the Nightsister quests into a repeatble set of missions/quests that introduce both new and old Nightsister and Singing Mountain clan loot into the game. Some clothing, weapons, food, a mind heal medicine, and "Nightsister Armor". It can only hold 2 segments per core and has a hinderance of 50% across the board if it breaks no resist caps. Although it overrides innate Jedi or TK armor it allows for the use of all force powers, Except equipping a lightsaber. Gives another option to Jedi/Hybrids and reopens a large portion of the armor buying population to armorsmiths. Adds value to different Hinderance values found across Combat professions, and adds meaning to Hinderance experimentation in final armor creation.
Message Edited by erli on 10-10-2005 03:58 PM
erli wrote:
Suit Appearances:
All Resists up to and including this point are to be uncapped, resource quality and decisions made determines final attributes not artificial capping. All Condition is cumulative to this point, allowing items that take more cores to have higher condition.Message Edited by erli on 10-10-2005 03:58 PM
While I started to read this original post.... I was in awe... very happy to see these changes for Armorsmiths. Then one thing left a sour spot... and then two shocking suprises that are NOT cool at all.
1. Increase the FP cost of aliens to buy Imp armor. (meh, sucks for them.... but maybe they can get a friend to buy it for them)
2. No aliens can wear Imp Faction armor. (fook yoo, I'll go rebel. That's the gayest thing ever. The coolest armor in the game, restricted to one species. And not even a loyal Zabrak can wear it. since the first week I played..... so 18 months as an Imp)
If only they would implement 50% of what you guys have written here, It'd be a whole new armor world out there. And yes, AS, or indeed any crafting prof, should AT THE VERY LEAST have an armor they could use.. I am SICK and TIRED of getting incapped once or twice on my way to my shop. It is RIGHT outside Coronet, and still I get my ass handed to me by Durnis and other lowbelly animals. Sometimes I carry full sets of armor on my way there, and I get incapped and incapped again INSIDE my shop... And I am so scared of moving around, so as to not get aggroed.. triple incapped with 10 full sets of faction armor in bags ? I'd prolly quit the game instantly.
Thanks for warming the heart of an old AS
If they start to incorporate some of the things in this post I might reactivate my AS account
Main thing for me, being an AS is a grind at the moment. There are no diversity in armor whatsoever, everyone is exactly the same and its just about pushing out more and more of the exact same grey boring armor. I mean, I cant even color the damn things because of bugs with armor color.
Algren_Earth-Stormer wrote:
While I started to read this original post.... I was in awe... very happy to see these changes for Armorsmiths. Then one thing left a sour spot... and then two shocking suprises that are NOT cool at all.
1. Increase the FP cost of aliens to buy Imp armor. (meh, sucks for them.... but maybe they can get a friend to buy it for them)
2. No aliens can wear Imp Faction armor. (fook yoo, I'll go rebel. That's the gayest thing ever. The coolest armor in the game, restricted to one species. And not even a loyal Zabrak can wear it. since the first week I played..... so 18 months as an Imp)
3. If you only get 1 xp for a factional kill you only get 1 FP. (You realize the source of cheap fp to armorsmiths would go away? You'd all be stuck paying whatever a smuggler wanted. Add these three things together..... and you go from making a dozen suites ofimp armor a month..... to 1... maybe.)
Take out those three, and it's golden
(desperately wants an elite recon armor.)
I am tired of the cookie cutter professions and am all for unbalancing things, even if that means screwing one race, I liked it when there was a wookiee disparity (waits for flames)
I am also very anti afk grinding. It was bad for the holo grind and it is very very bad for the smugglers and other professions now. One afk bot can get 100k fp a day. If your armor business is good, buying that fp should be a drop in the bucket
MonKaiku wrote:
Algren_Earth-Stormer wrote:
While I started to read this original post.... I was in awe... very happy to see these changes for Armorsmiths. Then one thing left a sour spot... and then two shocking suprises that are NOT cool at all.
1. Increase the FP cost of aliens to buy Imp armor. (meh, sucks for them.... but maybe they can get a friend to buy it for them)
2. No aliens can wear Imp Faction armor. (fook yoo, I'll go rebel. That's the gayest thing ever. The coolest armor in the game, restricted to one species. And not even a loyal Zabrak can wear it. since the first week I played..... so 18 months as an Imp)
3. If you only get 1 xp for a factional kill you only get 1 FP. (You realize the source of cheap fp to armorsmiths would go away? You'd all be stuck paying whatever a smuggler wanted. Add these three things together..... and you go from making a dozen suites ofimp armor a month..... to 1... maybe.)
Take out those three, and it's golden
(desperately wants an elite recon armor.)
I am tired of the cookie cutter professions and am all for unbalancing things, even if that means screwing one race, I liked it when there was a wookiee disparity (waits for flames)
I am also very anti afk grinding. It was bad for the holo grind and it is very very bad for the smugglers and other professions now. One afk bot can get 100k fp a day. If your armor business is good, buying that fp should be a drop in the bucket
So you want to screw one race to help others? Actually you would be screwing Zabrak, Twilek, Trandos, Mon Cals, and Rodians.... just to help humans. And how exactly does it help humans in general? It helps human armorsmiths, cause they have a monopoly on Imp armor..... But, their share of the market goes down anyway.
Who said anything about AFK grinding..... I can make as much as 12k an hour ATK grinding. It's boring, but it pays the bills, and there is nothing keeping Smugglers from doing the same. And my pricing..... competitive with smugglers (Unless you buy more than 50k.... then I drop.
It's not that I worry about the ARMORSMITHS being able to afford the FP for the armor...... But if prices go up.... then many combat toons will not be able to afford the armor. Let's face it, MOST COMBAT TOONS barely scrape by off of loots and mission rewards etc. Which is sad cause combat toons DRIVE the NEED for the economy, and when they grind, they CREATE the credits that pay you.
And when they finally DO get enough money for the Armor, paying 7k faction isn't easy either. I remember saving up 2 months to get my first storm trooper at about 6-7k fp. And all I did was do Imp missions back in the day.
While I like many of your ideas, I find these are NOT based about the overall playing experience for people, but instead either to aid the Rebelion, or to aid Human Imps.... Of which I think you are a rebel armorsmith.