Armorsmith Archive
Thread: Posted on the WS forums... but may be of concern to you guys to
freedomwarrior wrote:In this game linus, no 5800 is not the same as 6000. That analogy is a joke and you know it. Yes the difference between 5800 and 6000 is not a large percentage, I think 1 or 2%, but that 1 or 2% does and will make a difference.
Secondly, your talking about new smiths getting into the market being harder. Give me a break mate, I use to be a new smith back in the day as well, and had to work hard to get to where im at. Just like alot of other smiths who have been around awhile. Im sorry that the new smiths are having a hard time, but it was no different when I was coming up through the ranks as well. In addition, part of the challenge was collecting resources to hit caps or increase 1 or 2 points, well who cares now, go get a magical buff and hit it everytime on layered armors. Yea, most smiths hit the cap on the basic armors, but they dont on layered.
In addition, it was tested mate and its not just on experimentation, but on resources. Read the TC notes. There are 4 buffs now, 1 for better assembly, 1 for experimentation, 1 for resource stat and forgive me I cant remember the other and dont want to go over and lose what Ive typed, I will edit down the road when im done.
If it was all about credits on this game mate, I would go hunt bh marks, because I can make more on the tapes being looted at the moment.
You're obviously not reading what i am writing I completely understand how the buff works. It's applied to resources, i get that. I REALLY do. How do those buffed resources affect the experimentation process and the overall quality of the armor. That's what i am talking about. What I am saying is that a 10% increase in resource stats only affects the base experimentation before the AS experiments. MEaning that if your base experimentation was 25% BEFORE the buff, it will be 27.5% after the buff. This does not translate into 5450 Armor becoming 6000 armor. Personally i would love to test this on TC, but i can't DL TC so i can't.
1-2% isn't really that much. A typical combat person has 3k health. If they have 1% more protection it means, if they get all their damage taken down they will basically get an extra 30 health.2% means 60 more health. Not a signifigant difference in the course of a battle. If they completely heal themselves 3 times in the course of a battle, they will get an extra 90 health... if they had to completely heal themselves 3 times they are fighting something that does more than 90 damage per hit. therefore the difference is really insignificant.
It IS different thatn when you were coming up. Everyone got a clean slate at the CU. Some AS's has a small advantage but it was basically the same. Now it's different because there are AS's outthere with stockpiles of resources, which is something anyone who was an AS at the turn of the CU didn't have to deal with. So it is, in fact, Harder for a new AS to start, than it was when you started.
Circe' Pojia Based upon what has been posted in tc notes mate, the increase stats to resources is making a dramatical effect on items. Thats the key. Im going to sit back now and wait and watch. When this hits live, im going to laugh when whats being said comes to fruitation and the ones of you defending the devs are back here doing the complaining. By then it will be too late, but enjoyable non the less.
Oh yea, you proved my own point on the new smith argument. There is no difference. ITs exactly the same as when I was coming up. Its just now there are new resources involved and those same self smiths are still up there because they kept at it.
Come November, I have DDO to look forward too, so for now Im just gonna sit back and watch. Nuff said there I guess.
freedomwarrior wrote:Based upon what has been posted in tc notes mate, the increase stats to resources is making a dramatical effect on items. Thats the key. Im going to sit back now and wait and watch. When this hits live, im going to laugh when whats being said comes to fruitation and the ones of you defending the devs are back here doing the complaining. By then it will be too late, but enjoyable non the less.
Oh yea, you proved my own point on the new smith argument. There is no difference. ITs exactly the same as when I was coming up. Its just now there are new resources involved and those same self smiths are still up there because they kept at it.
Come November, I have DDO to look forward too, so for now Im just gonna sit back and watch. Nuff said there I guess.
Even if it is, like i said, you won't hear a complaint out of me unless it bugs some aspect of crafting armor. I like the changes. I know for a fact new crafters are turned off at the daunting prospect of trying to compete with people who have been stockpiling the best resources for 6months or more. They have no shot at actually competeing.. they might be able to out manuver them on as a businessman, but as a pure AS they can't compete. I guess can't is the wrong word, it's extremely difficult. It's also plainly obvious that the numbers of crafters are dwindling and they are going to have a hard time keeping up with demand on the servers, so anything that makes it a little less daunting for new crafters, I am 100% for. Like I said before anyone who can make over 5800 armor is making the same stuff anyways (1% is not significant). All it might do is allow newb crafters 3 months of resource gathering to compete instead of 6, which is really ok by me. I don't think you should have to play a game for 6 months before you can become useful.
How exactly did I prove your point? PLease explain that to me, because what I said was that The way the system is set up Older crafters easily have the advantage, because they have access to the best resources. It's not their skill that sets them apart it's their longevity in the game. When the CU hit, no one had that longevity factor so every AS had an almost equal playing field. Today, if you started a crafter on a different server, there are crafters who have been able to collect and keep the best resources, therefore they have an advantage over new crafters, because there is nothing noobs can possibly do to compete with resources that are no longer mineable. I honestly don't understand how you can argue against this. And I really don't understand how saying that proves your point.
Also... you'll be waiting until 2006, DDO's launch date has been pushed back
I hadn't seen any data on how a 10% buff affected the final result, and I offered a hypothisis to say that a 10% buff may seem like a big buff, but, if implemented a certain way, wasn't as big as seemed. It seems my hypothasis was wrong, however nobody could dispute it at the time (or no one DID dispute it, with solid evidance).
But from what i've heard (still haven't seen any actual results from 10% buffs yet) the 10% buff was too much. which is fine, there is a too much. I just don't like how a lot of people get all bent out of shape about something before knowing anyt specifics about it.
lol well i gues thus means il be one of the first to cap primus battle on sunrunner yay lol ..
(i just really dont wanan have to go to a ent..i dont liek leaving my city.....)
Frenzi wrote:
Thank god the devs decided to let people test this new patch this time instead of just throwing it out untested...if this had gotten to live servers then people would have made a ton of schematics and had a huge advantage over those who hadnt for a longggg time.
QFE. This change on live for a few days would have been a disaster much greater than crafting day - because so many people would know about it in advance.
Admittedly, I would have been one of the first to make as many schematics as at all possible, but that doesn't mean I would have liked it..
I think most of us would have.
Nixen wrote:
Admittedly, I would have been one of the first to make as many schematics as at all possible, but that doesn't mean I would have liked it..
linusboarder wrote:
..
I completely disagree... I think we already are making the same armor. Since armor is done on a logarythmic scale the difference between 5800 Base armor and 6000 base armor is really insignificant. If you look at it over the course of a battle what does it save? maybe 30 Health, which isn't even one hit. So to say "We're going to all be making the same stuff" is kinda silly, because we are already making the same stuff.
It might be that the 1.02% difference in damage reduction doesn't mean anything to you, but I can guarantee that it does to me. I sell capped suits at 400k and anything 5900-5999 at 350k. My 6000 base battle suits outsellmy 5943base battle by more than a factor two. The best energy recon I have sells at 1.2 million because it is the best possible on my server. 2 points better than the competition.
Also i don't think the 10% increase will work the way some people think it will. If you look at the base experimentation percentage before you actually experiment in, which is probably is where the 10% increase in resource quality will take place (since this is the main thing the quality of resources controls). It will also affect the number of experimentation boxes you are able to get into. The best base exp % i have heard of is 29%, and the best my stuff has ever been is 27%. Now i don't know how many base experimentation points it takes to gain one more experimentation bar but a 2-3% increase in base experimentation is going to add at most one experimentation point. Meaning this buff will turn an 11pt crafter into a 12pter, or a 10pter into an 11 pt crafter.
Well, I would actually like the resource buff if that was the case.
But it is not, so, again, had you bothered to read up on it, or go on TC yourself, you wouldn't need to make this assumption.
I saw somwhere that somoeone says that these buffs are going to make 5450 armor into maxed out 6k, and i don't think this was really well thought out.
Ok, I posted that, so uhmm.. thanks mate. Thing is that it is actually kindof well thought out. If you had bothered to do the maths before you posted this, I wouldn't need to get semi-upset at this remark and post this semi-hurt response to it.
Testing on testcenter indicated that "resource quality improvement" means that your resource is on all counts treated as if it had higher stats. This means that armor made with segments experimented to 89% and cores experimented to 80% would be segments to 99% and cores to 90%. Meaning that instead of (89*9+100) 901 segments and (80*28+200+3*901) 5143 cores, making the final armor 5543, you would now have (99*9+100) 991 segments and (90*28+200+3*991) 5693 cores for capped armor. Point being that if you increase the resource quality of the segments and the cores by 10% each that is a total of
3*segment_improvement_percentage*9 + core_improvement_percentage*28
giving us a 550 point increase assuming that neither segments nor cores were expermimented to above 90% before.
All this is posted after I read that they changed the resource quality buff to 2% making it more acceptable.
And, Linusboarder, I know I can get sort of sarcastic anda little bitnasty in arguments - that's just to say that I don't mean anythingbad towards you, so please don't take it personal or get too offended 
Nixen wrote:linusboarder wrote:
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I completely disagree... I think we already are making the same armor. Since armor is done on a logarythmic scale the difference between 5800 Base armor and 6000 base armor is really insignificant. If you look at it over the course of a battle what does it save? maybe 30 Health, which isn't even one hit. So to say "We're going to all be making the same stuff" is kinda silly, because we are already making the same stuff.It might be that the 1.02% difference in damage reduction doesn't mean anything to you, but I can guarantee that it does to me. I sell capped suits at 400k and anything 5900-5999 at 350k. My 6000 base battle suits outsell my 5943 base battle by more than a factor two. The best energy recon I have sells at 1.2 million because it is the best possible on my server. 2 points better than the competition. Yes i realize that 6k sells better than 5999 suits. However fundamentally there's nothing significantly different in them. It's just an ignorant or naive customer base
Also i don't think the 10% increase will work the way some people think it will. If you look at the base experimentation percentage before you actually experiment in, which is probably is where the 10% increase in resource quality will take place (since this is the main thing the quality of resources controls). It will also affect the number of experimentation boxes you are able to get into. The best base exp % i have heard of is 29%, and the best my stuff has ever been is 27%. Now i don't know how many base experimentation points it takes to gain one more experimentation bar but a 2-3% increase in base experimentation is going to add at most one experimentation point. Meaning this buff will turn an 11pt crafter into a 12pter, or a 10pter into an 11 pt crafter.Well, I would actually like the resource buff if that was the case.
But it is not, so, again, had you bothered to read up on it, or go on TC yourself, you wouldn't need to make this assumption. I read posts in 4 forum threads and didn't see one person do the numbers on it, yet everyone was postingabout how horrible the changes were. If you had read any of my previous posts you would know i can't Download TC and therefore can't test my math the way i'd like to with an armor experiment)(
I saw somwhere that somoeone says that these buffs are going to make 5450 armor into maxed out 6k, and i don't think this was really well thought out.
Ok, I posted that, so uhmm.. thanks mate. Thing is that it is actually kindof well thought out. If you had bothered to do the maths before you posted this, I wouldn't need to get semi-upset at this remark and post this semi-hurt response to it.Testing on testcenter indicated that "resource quality improvement" means that your resource is on all counts treated as if it had higher stats. This means that armor made with segments experimented to 89% and cores experimented to 80% would be segments to 99% and cores to 90%. Meaning that instead of (89*9+100) 901 segments and (80*28+200+3*901) 5143 cores, making the final armor 5543, you would now have (99*9+100) 991 segments and (90*28+200+3*991) 5693 cores for capped armor. Point being that if you increase the resource quality of the segments and the cores by 10% each that is a total of
3*segment_improvement_percentage*9 + core_improvement_percentage*28
giving us a 550 point increase assuming that neither segments nor cores were expermimented to above 90% before.
All this is posted after I read that they changed the resource quality buff to 2% making it more acceptable.
And, Linusboarder, I know I can get sort of sarcastic and a little bit nasty in arguments - that's just to say that I don't mean anything bad towards you, so please don't take it personal or get too offended
I also know it's a moot point now, because the buffs went down to 2%, but I have become thoughoughly intrigued on exactly how resources excatly affect the final product. So please tell me how you got an 89%-» 99% experimentation incrase off of %10 better resources. I guess i am not following.
Ah, well... you know this might matter to me... unfortunately a few months ago Chapstick decided to go ahead and juggle all the resources required to make armor. So I went from among the top 10 armorsmiths on the server to average. I'm not going to go and recollect all this junk. We're not even going to go into the whole cost of the devalued resources with the "range calculations", or the cost of my armorsmith clothing. Come to think about it, we're not even going to mention the 27% exceptional scale that converted as spiffy as a 3% scale. And surely I am not going to comment on the fact the conversion process left me with 500 suits of garbage armor (80% kinetic, ultra low ham) that I couldn't even uncrate for god knows how long.
Anyways, I don't care. Still and armorsmith, I just don't make it. Chapstick, you're a son of a bantha. Oa'kron rocks.
Renea,