Armorsmith Archive
Thread: The real problem
Xyrdre wrote:
I have an honest question.
What did the combat players do before there were buffbots?
In the history of SWG, buffbots haven't been around for very long. So many people seem to be saying that without buffbots (or equivalent full-time access to buffs, in locales tailored to convenience of the individual making the statement) the game would screech to a halt as unplayable. If that were true, then what were the combat players doing before the coming of the buffbots? Was no one fighting? No one running missions? I can't believe that, that would be silly. Obviously they were playing the game, and running missions and leveling and 'pwning' and all that good stuff.
Just what did the combat players do before there were buffbots?
Well what I did was spend a lot of time looking for a Musician buff. Frustrated, I then got a second account and made her a musician. That is what a lot of people did, they just logged on an account, buffed themselves and their friends, then logged off. All the buffbot macros did was get rid of the logging off.
Ravanne_Esi wrote:
Straker_Atrella wrote:
THAT is how you fixthe problem. By killing buff bots first, your saying "If you do it we will come." You are asking the community to trust you. Not only trustyou, but to put their enjoyment of the game in your hands. You are not only saying that you will come, but you will STAY. You wont grow bored and leave, you will be around at all hours. That is a lot of trust.
This is not being done to fix entertainers!
The DEVs are removing recursive macros due to their GAME WIDE abuse. Everyone is blaming the Entertainers for this and it was not done due to any requestwe made or to fix any of our problems, If you really feel the need to place blame turn your finger around and point to the real persons responsible for this, all of you who spent countless hours grinding XP AFK, all of you who created buffbots, all of you who patronize buffbots.
Nobody is blaming Entertainers for this change. However by far the loudest people arguing against afk play are Entertainers. Many of them show utter disdain for the needs of Combatents, all that matters is them. They argue for afk being removed not caring how it will affect others. There are many many posts here asking for the removal of AFK.
We as Entertainers OWE YOU NOTHING! We as Entertainers ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE GAME! We entertain, we heal and we buff because it is how WE want to play the game and how WE get OUR enjoyment of this game.
Actually untrue. While you as an Entertainer person may owe us nothing, the game was setup making it impossible to play without Entertainer access. You cannot play with high BF. Yes you can kill low level stuff without mind buffs, but for high level stuff andPVP you do need those. So while you as a person do not owe us anything,it is our RIGHT to have access to these in some form. You pay to playthe game your way, they pay to play theirs.For them to play theirs, they need Entertainers,there were not enough, hence buffbots.
I'm getting so angry at all ofthe sanctimonious weasels complaining about how we are taking away all ofyour enjoyment of this game. If we're so important toyour enjoyment of playing SWG then maybeyou should have treated us a whole lot better thanyou have. It wasyour behavior that drove us out of the public cantinas in the first place,you have no right to complain about us not being there now.
Yep, exactly this attitude us why people get upset at Entertainers. I have ALWAYS tipped Entertainers. I have never treated an Entertainer badly. I have never insulted you here. I accept that the problem needs fixed and seek to do so in such a way that Entertainers are fixed, plus all the combatents get to keep playing how they want.
Yet I am a weasel now. It's all our fault you left, not the games. You should enjoy the game, while we shouldn't. This post is EXACTLY why people feel Entertainers care only about themselves and nobody else. Posts like this will never earn you respect from the Combattent community. Out of resentment, they will actually seek ways to avoid you.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
Please excuse me, this post got a bit length
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Ok first. saying make friends with Entertainers is great, yet as I have stated before, at least on Scylla, that is not easy, there are simply very few people tring to make a living Entertaining. No matter the cause. However, there are a lot of people I know with secondary accounts who are Entertainers. When we hunt, we simply duel log and drag them along. There are many others like me. The problem is that this does nothing to help the actual Entertainer trying to earn his keep. They still are not getting business.
This should insure that you and your friends will not be without buffs. You have more accounts and if you use them to buff your self and your friends that is your right.
Granted I do not play on Scylla, not have I ever played there, but why should it be impossible for everyone else that plays there to do the same... make friends with someone with an entertainer alt. Anyone can join a guild that has a few entertainer alts.
Only thoughts that dislike interaction of any kind with other players will have trouble achieving this, and I think we can agree that they are properly playing the wrong game.
It is a choice, will people behave in a manor that will make the friends, will they commit them self to a guild that helps it them but in return expect them to help the guild? If they choose not to, then they might also choose not to have access to mind buffs.
While yes, this will ensure that I and others will always have Mind buffs. It does nothing to help the Entertainer profession. You shouldn't need to change guilds just to find an Entertainer. It's not like that for other professions. Plus us with Entertainer alts don't play 23/7 either.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
On Macros. Killing Macros and AFK, no matter my comments I can live with. However, in order to do so, you need to make big changes to the macro system, including stopping it from accessing the toolbar. This would have far reaching effects.
I disagree with you on this. From my knowledge of object orientated programming, with I will admit is not my strong side, it should be possible to add a "macro" flag to the function that interprets and execute any the macros. This "macro" flag would then be inherited by any function executed by the macro, and by any object created by the macro. When a macro or alias function is then called it checks for the existence of a "macro" flag before anything else, and if it is there it just terminate it self.
So if /ui action toolbar11 is called, and toolbar 11 is a new colour flesh wrap, the character just changes clothing. If toolbar 11 on the other hand were a macro it will call the macro interprets that would check for the flag and thus not run the macro.
Much of the fears about the way to SOE will have to handle looping macros properly comes from people that know to little about programming to know they know to little. People who thing that the macro is somehow directly executed with out being interpreted and that the program have no way of seeing the difference between keyboard input and macros.
Maybe, and I'm fine with that. I think something like this is what we may end up with. Which is fine, that isn't how they origionally had planned on fonig it though, and is why it got pushed back. It does bother me though that people with simply mouse click programs will still run buff bots.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Every profession has bugs and problems. The answer to those problems is not to drag the other professions down, it is to fix the problems.
Entertainers in general despise AFK play, they loathe it's very existance. It has arguably killed their profession. However while just waving the nerf bat and making it all go away may make the game more enjoyable for you, it will make it less enjoyable for others. They matter as well.
Buffbots are killing us. The hologrinding have made BF healing "a right" and even a favour to the entertainer, few tip for it any more. That leaves buffs as the only viable income for an entertainer. Buffs witch are being devaluated by buffbots, if people come to us at all.
Combaters will still be able to function even with out mind buffs, they did before the mind buffs was around. So if worst come to worst and mind buffs becomes only for the few and privileged, then the rest will still be able to run mission, just not on such a high difficulty. And the PvP'ers would be in equal footing. The option to join one of the guilds that provide the mind buffs are open to them, they will have a choice.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
Here in my humble opinion is a timeline for how you REALLY fix buffbots.
1. Add an active interface that allows attended buffs to last 3 hours and makes them 10% better.
Result: When a live Entertainer is present, people will bypass the bot and go to the person. This will start to bring real live Entertaining back, slowly pushing buffbots away.
3 hour buffs would be nice, it would reduce the "time mismatch" of buffing that make many people complain. But simply giving a bonus to a ATK player over a AFK one, is saying that being AFK is ok in the first place.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
2. Make it so you can be rebuffed and the times stack. Meaning if I have an hour left on Doc or Musician buffs, I can get rebuffed. When the first die, the others kick in.
Result: This allow different Doc and Musician times to coexist better. You wont have those periods in town where you need to sit around and wait 30 minutes for Doc buffs (or Entertainer) to fall. This time differential is the #1 reason that people love buffbots right near their hunting spot. After this kicks in, coupled with number 1, more Entertainers come back, or more people start to play their Entertainers attended.
This is a bad idea... People would get 2 set of buffs at once, and then not need buffing for 6 hours, you could just as well ask for even longer running buffs. If buffs could overwrite old buffs, so the doc buff with one hour left could be replaced with a new 3 hour one, then that would be good, and it would eliminate the need to wait for a buff to run out.
Actually that is what I meant, I guess I should have been more clear. The timer would keep going on the hidden buff. Meaning if you had an hour left on your Doc buff, then got another 3 hour doc buff. When the 1 hour one ran out, you would only have 2 hours left on the second buff. Your version works as well, but could be tricky because what if soembody with really crappy buff buffed you and you didn't want it? They would overwrite your old ones. If they had to be better, then were exactly where we are now.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
3. Add Entertainer content, nothing major, just something to attract more people.
Result: More people play Entertainers and keep playing them. Many people will get bored with just buffing. You can't have a situation hwere you have a lot at first, then it falls again.
Entertainers are for the social players, whether they are the chatty type or prefer to listen, and perhaps comment occasionally. Buffing should not be the only reason for becoming an entertainer. Just as doing corvette runs, should not be the sole reason to become a commando. More tools to better entertain would be good, but contend like the devs define it is not was entertainers need. We are not suppose to interact with NPC's we are supposed to interact with PC's.
The problem is that any profession can soclialize. I never shut up in our voice channel or guild chat. A lot of socializers don't play Entertainers.The Entertainer professions need more of a reason to play then just socializing, you can do that in any profession.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
4. Now you Nerf buffbots. You would need to REALLY take a look at every single server to ensure that there are enough live Entertainers around.
Result: Because of changes 1 and 2, people were already seeking attended buffs. More Entertainers should be around, they have also had time to level up. If it is deemed through a good look that at all hours, on all servers there are enough people to carry the load, kill the buffbots. People probably are not using them anyway.
When you say that the combaters access to mind buffs should be secured before the entertainer professions are fixed, you are saying that the combaters are more imported the we are. That it does not matter that entertainers have to endure months upon months of a situation is driving us away from the profession, as long as the combatants get thair precious mind buffs.
I say remove the buffbots and all other AFK playing. Then provide the TOOLS for the combatants to find us. By the time the tools are implemented perhaps they will have learned to appreciate entertainers again, so that we will again start to grow as a profession.
All servers are different, on some armour and weapons cost more then on other, and the quality of the armour and weapons varies. So why should the availability of entertainers not vary, if there are few entertainers the ones there are should get much bigger tips, simple supply and demand. If you pay enough you can most likely always get the service you wand.
No, I say that everybody is EQUALLY important. You don't make 2 professions happy by making 10 unhappy, that doesn't make sense. You find a fix that keeps everybody happy. When I propose a bug or system fix on the Fencer, Rifleman, or DE boards, I always ensure it doesn't affect other people negativly. Why should I pass my problems on to others?
Straker_Atrella wrote:
THAT is how you fix the problem. By killing buff bots first, your saying "If you do it we will come." You are asking the community to trust you. Not only trust you, but to put their enjoyment of the game in your hands. You are not only saying that you will come, but you will STAY. You wont grow bored and leave, you will be around at all hours. That is a lot of trust.
By killing buffbots first we are saying that live players comes before AFK players. Are tailors required to be around at all hours, are chefs, weaponsmiths, or even doctors required to be around at all hours? No, only entertainers are hold up to that standard and only because of the publicly available buffbots.
At the moment our enjoyment of the game is in the hands on the buffbots, and they have already proven that they do not care about us. So why not turn the table and give us the chance to prove that we do really do wand to provide buffs for the masses, why not choose the untested road over the one we know has failed?
On Chimera I have seen up to 2 other live entertainers in the tavern in the mining outpost on dantooine around 3 AM local server time. If enough players are around the statistically one will be an entertainer of some kind.
Docs have combat implications so there are a lot of them. That still being said, it's still hard to find Doc buffs late at night, causing people to log.
Chefs, Tailors, Weaponsmiths, and all other crafters ARE held up to a 24 hour standard. It's called vendors. People go to the stocked ones and not the empty ones. If I want a T21 at 3am, I can find one.
Straker_Atrella wrote:
It is also a big picture problem. How many servers are there? I honestly don't know, lets say 25. Lets say the nerf bat is swung and buffbots are nerfed. On 24 servers, the Entertainers come, there is blissfull harmony. Yet what about number 25? Life there is miserable, the loss rate is high. The devs are not going to code in buffbots just for them. A couple of thousand people are unhappy, what to do?
Not as easy situation, no matter how much you hate buffbots.
I do think that the above 4 step program is a good step in the right direction however.
Well the problem would be that there was to many servers thenBut lets say I wanted to make a dancer/TKA, to take on another aspect of entertaining. What server would I be most likely to make it on, the one where entertainers are common place and in fierce competition for the customers, or the one where entertainers are few and far between and the custimore line up round the block when one is performing ?
It would properly balance it self out. The question is, under your scenario why should the entertainers on the 24 servers suffer because the players on one server could not get the game economy to work.
So now your asking for trust again. Saying that you will switch servers to go to one that needs Entertainers seems a bit much. The game has many Socializers, a small percentage of them play Entertainers. By leaving one server to go to another, you may leave that old server lacking as well.
Why should 24 servers suffer because 1 can't get it to work? Because that is big picure thinking. If it's not working on one server from there start, there is a high percentage chance that eventually it may stop working on the other servers as well.
Any fix that is done NEEDS to be good for all servers. No server should be helped at the expense of others, just the same as professions. Find a way that works.
Message Edited by Beery on 08-11-2004 08:58 AM
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-11-2004 08:04 AM
Here's hoping the game gets back to normal.
Illya wrote:
I'm hoping the combat rebalance eliminates Entertainer buffs, reduces Dr. buffs by at least 75% and makes serious changes to the small set of foods everyone uses.
Here's hoping the game gets back to normal.
Tarnak_Archvold wrote:
SmedleyLlama wrote:
I think you'll find a lot of guilds will be shutting down those Alt Entertainers soon. Their owners really have no interest in playing them and will probably choose to take back their cash, rather than leave the account to sit, gathering dust.
Good. the fewer people who play entertainer character, with out having any interest in being an entertainer, the better. However guilds do not have to rely on alt entertainer, why not recruit a dancer/TKA or something like that, they do exist.
Look at it like this, the strongest guilds have people of all professions in them. If you choose not to have entertainers you have to hope that independents will provide you with the service. Just as you have to hope to find an online independent weaponsmith willing to work for cash, to make you that krayt Jawa rifle if you only got 6 tissues.
I'm sorry but I have two probles with this. First, you advocate joining a guild so you never have to worry about being without an entertainer. But then you turn around and embrace the only game system in SWG which forces a player to interact directly with another. Not for interaction sake, but just so they can get back to playing "their" game. Would you feel the same if you were forced to find a Tailor every two hours for a new pair of shoes or lose the ability to dance? And not just find his vendor, but the Tailor himself and wait while he made them? OR an Artisan to fix your instrument before you could play another note? So long as you cling to the monopoly on BF healing, you will have combat players that resent you. Whether they are right or wrong doesn't really enter into it.
I know 3 tailors, and about 5 master artisans. Not a lot and if I needed thair service often I would make sure to get to know even more. If I have to find artisan every few hours to play my best song, or play on my best instrument, then I would play a lower song with a lower instrument when I could not find a artisan. You can do the same, just take easier missions and the mind buffs wound not be necessary, then you can "make due" with food and spice.
Every profession category have some sort of monopoly.
* Scouts/rangers are the only ones that can harvest creature resources.
* Medics/doctors are the only ones that can heal other people wounds and use stim's.
* Artisan and its elite profession make the equipment.
* Entertainers heal BF. (as do PC hospitals)
* Combat characters are the ones that make the huge amount of credit from mission terminals
That is the point of the game, Interdependency. If you are unhappy about that concept then complain to SOE, not to us entertainers.
Even as a master entertainer/master musician, entertainer missions only give 200 cr max... We NEED the combat character to tip us, that is what we are suppose to get our income from.
And I'm sorry.. I started a brand new Dancer on Starsider Friday night. I have now made 84,000 credits (all ATK) just from Mind & BF healing. So obviously someone out there is still tipping. Do people walk away without tipping? Absolutely. But you know what... this has been an issue since this game launched. The Buff Bots didn't have anything to do with it.
Tips have picked up lately, it started a few days after the removal of recursive macros was announced.
From playing 8 hours in the dantooine mining outpost, over the last 2 days, I made 25k or so... the ticket there and back cost about 5K... that is about 2500 an hour. I can make that easy on explore missions. Luckily credit is not what motivate me.
You're right. And that is why the Buff Bot first came into being. Because the Tailor, the Chef, the Weaponsmith, even the Doctor have an alternative in the form of an NPC counterpart. Provide the same for the entertainer and I think you'll find most arguments would go away as well.
What NPC's heal disease, poison, and put out fires like doctors do, or just heal wound? Yes you can sit in a medicinal centre and get your wounds healed slowly, and the other run out in time. But your BF will be healed in a PC hospital, so entertainers are equal to doctors in that respect.
What NPC's make clothing? Yes there are vendors that sell clothing or loot it of NPC's, but you can not get a custom order from a vendor unless the PC tailor have already made it for you, the same goes for Chefs.
Because the game community covers all servers and changes are not done in a vacuum. You see... You have my complete support for fixing the entertainer professions and removing the AFK gameplay. My problem is the player that would do so at the expense of all other playing types. Consider alternatives or solutions that will make the game better for everyone. If that means removing recursive macros.. fine. Come up with something to help those negatively impacted by that decision.
That can't really be too much to ask for, can it?
You have a funny way of thinking of the hole community. Lets say that there was Just one server where not a lot of people hunted krayt dragons, so if I had a combat character on that server that wanted a krayt enhanced pistol, would you then support a NPC selling krayt tissues?
Changes have to be made for the gaiter good, if one server does not have the necessary community to support it self, it should not hold back the others. It would be like creating NPC's selling weapons on all servers because one server did not have enough weaponsmiths, or cutting mission payout on all servers by 90% because one server had to much credit.
I am not saying that there should not be tool that would help you find a live entertainer when you need one, but it will take time to develop (or at the very least fix the things there are currently). And being an entertainer could certainly be made more fun, that would get more entertainers as well, but again it will take time. And this fix of AFK play should not be delayed just because some people cant imagine fighting with out mind buffs.
With all due respect... I never mentioned buffs. In fact if you go back and look at every post I've ever made on this subject you will find I have never mentioned buffs as necessary.
BF has been my personal crusade.
Now... On to the specifics of your post.
Whatare the dependencies of the Entertainer? Let's see.. They need people with wounds/BF to watch them in order to get healing XP. They need money. Fair enough, but which of those actually keeps them from dancing/playing music and socializing in the cantinas? Neither.
Now let's take the combat player. He needs the medic to heal his wounds - alternative: sit in a camp or Med Center for a little while to heal his wounds. In most cases he needs to find aweaponsmith to make him a weapon (unless he's a brawler) - alternative: Buy it from a vendor ro the bazaar.And he needs an entertainer to heal his mind and BF - alternative: None. Correction.. Resonable alternative: None. He can sit in the med center and have his BF healed over time but at a rate more than three times slower than any other wounds. Add this to the fact that BFis generally 5-6x higher than his HAM wounds and you have a problem.
So, does AFK play need to be addressed? Absolutely. Does the connection between the entertainer and the combat player need to be addressed? Yes.. Just as badly.
While yes, this will ensure that I and others will always have Mind buffs. It does nothing to help the Entertainer profession. You shouldn't need to change guilds just to find an Entertainer. It's not like that for other professions. Plus us with Entertainer alts don't play 23/7 either.
The entertainer professions will be helped by not having to compete with buffbots. We will be helped by the lower about of AFKers, and by the fact that people can assume that any Entertainer they se is in fact at the keyboard and not AFK. And thus only a "/tt" away from a mind buff.
Your version works as well, but could be tricky because what if soembody with really crappy buff buffed you and you didn't want it? They would overwrite your old ones. If they had to be better, then were exactly where we are now.
It would require some form of concert system like ID, yes. But I dough that would be difficult to make for the devs. That it has not already been implemented this way is something to be pondered, I mean that is how I would have made it in the first place.
The problem is that any profession can soclialize. I never shut up in our voice channel or guild chat. A lot of socializers don't play Entertainers. The Entertainer professions need more of a reason to play then just socializing, you can do that in any profession.
Entertainers are also supporter charters, our game mechanics side is about helping others. That is properly why you find fewer entertainers the say, TKA's
I am all for adding more contend to the entertainer classes, more things for us to do, and more ways for us to interact with other players and the game. But we have to be carefully not to give something to the class that will attract other play styles. If people start to become entertainers because they was to say, make thair own racetrack, and not because they wand to entertain, then nothing is achieved.
If there indeed are to few entertainers SOE needs to create contend and tools for entertainers that will attract community minded people who like to help others. The buffbots tried to solve the lack of entertainers with, taking something away from the ones that was left? it is any wonder that many entertainers now say "as so what" when the former buffbot uses complain about not being able to get a buff.
No, I say that everybody is EQUALLY important. You don't make 2 professions happy by making 10 unhappy, that doesn't make sense. You find a fix that keeps everybody happy. When I propose a bug or system fix on the Fencer, Rifleman, or DE boards, I always ensure it doesn't affect other people negativly. Why should I pass my problems on to others?
Lets take the "vehicle repaired bug". Its fix was implemented despite it undoubtfully not helpful to anyone... It was something that was never suppose to have been. So was the "harvest resources from creatures you sampled to death" bug that was for BE's.
Buffbots and afk playing was never mend to happen, and now it is being removed. One of the effects of that AFK play style was driving live entertainers away for the public eye.
Many players have bees use to free and readily available buffs, there is no way to remove that with out making them unhappy. But we do not solve it by creating NPC entertainers and many would like. They did not consider the effect on entertainers when the did so, they passed thair problems on to us, and if we now hand them back it just put us back on equal footing.
Still I do not wand them to be left with out mind buffs, but I wand the mind buffs to be given by live entertainers. I am all for tools that will help a combated find the entertainers they need, such tools was supposed to be there for launch, but our map registration have never been fixed.
Docs have combat implications so there are a lot of them. That still being said, it's still hard to find Doc buffs late at night, causing people to log.
Chefs, Tailors, Weaponsmiths, and all other crafters ARE held up to a 24 hour standard. It's called vendors. People go to the stocked ones and not the empty ones. If I want a T21 at 3am, I can find one.
It will be difficulty to implement a 24/7 standard for entertainers with out cutting us totally off from what we are suppose to be. It we could per say "charge up" a vendor with be healing, 90% of all player would use them over a live entertainer. And if Doc buffs can be found at 03:00 then why the fuss about not being to find a entertainer buff ? With the way people migrate thair stats (all in mind) a doc buff is fare more imported then an entertainer buff. Yet I so know one calling for in implementation of NPC doctors to buff them. (ok one post in the entertainer board suggest that all buffs should be able to be sold throe vendors, but it is the only one I have seen)
So now your asking for trust again. Saying that you will switch servers to go to one that needs Entertainers seems a bit much. The game has many Socializers, a small percentage of them play Entertainers. By leaving one server to go to another, you may leave that old server lacking as well.
Why should 24 servers suffer because 1 can't get it to work? Because that is big picure thinking. If it's not working on one server from there start, there is a high percentage chance that eventually it may stop working on the other servers as well.
Any fix that is done NEEDS to be good for all servers. No server should be helped at the expense of others, just the same as professions. Find a way that works.
No, I wound switch server. However, there is always someone who is making a new character on a new server, and there is always someone trying on new professions. The 25'th server would slowly get it's entertainers back, unless it have some hostile element that make it less fun to be an entertainer there then on other servers.
As I said in my last post that quote be on that, NPC selling weapons are not made on all servers because one lack weaponsmiths, and mission pay is not slashed on one server because to many mission is being run on one server... You simply do not brake 24 servers to save one, and taking something away from entertainers will make few entertainers available on all servers and hence put the first 24'th closer to become like the 25'th.
The way to do it is to make entertainers easier to find, provide in game tools that will make it easier for players to find entertainers. How much entertainer services would cost would then end up depending on how many entertainers was around.
Beery wrote:
"Straker is devil's advocate, and while he understand's and even supports the end to buffbots, he is trying to explain the sentiment, the need, and the why for having buffbots."
Straker is not the devil's advocate. A devil's advocate is ultimatelyon God's side. Straker runs a buffbot. He can't be the devil's advocate if he's on the devil's side. He is at best an advocate for buffbots. At worst, he represents our adversary - the very type of person we need to stop. The devil is cunning and persuasive, just as Straker is. Notice that he hasn't once admitted here that he runs a buffbot. Why is that, do you think? At worst StrakerIS this game's version of thedevil - a virtual devil, if you will.
Lol, I had to reply to this one, I will reply to the others as well. In a minute. I have said over and over and over again that I run a buffbot. I have never ever kept that secret. I don't do it for profit, I do it because it was IMPOSSIBLE to find mind buffs on our server. I can afford a second account, my guild friends cannot. I am not taking business from real Entertainers because they are not there.
I am not an advocate for buffbots, an advocate for Combatents, nor an advocate for Entertainers. I am an advocate for a fun enjoyable playing experiance for EVERYBODY. Yes I realize that my running a buffbot in our private guild cantina may inconvieniance the 2 (maybe) Entertainers on our server that I can never find. Yet I can list 30+ people who my buffbot does make their playing more fun.
This is a game. It is suppossed to be fun. Were not really Commandos, Musicians or Droid Engineers. People play the gameto have fun. It IS possible for everybody to coexist peacefully and for fixes to be found that incorporate EVERYBODIES playstyles. Why would you want to have more fun at the expense of somebody elses fun.
I know Entertainers feel beat up, it's been going on for a while. No matter what anybody says, I truly do sympathize with you. I want the Entertainer professions fixed. Just not at everybody elses expense.
I don't post to change your minds or advocate buff bots. I post to let you look at it from another point of view. Many of you at least seem to consider what I am saying, others seem to jaded to even consider that other people have a right to have fun as well.
Bye now, I'm off to steal a car........... 
Warryyr wrote:
Starport times were cut in half with the last publish.
So, you're oh-so-painful potential wait at starports has been cut down to 5 minutes. And that's assuming you miss every connecting shuttle - which I'll admit does happen sometimes. I find if I hit 3 shuttles and wait the full time, I'm inclined to log anyways because luck just isn't with me that day. I usually hop on another character on another galaxy for awhile.
I've grown weary of combat players' justifications for the "necessesity" of buffbots. Buffs, by definition, are enhancements. They aren't necessary in the game except if you just don't want to be healed at all.
I know, Mind can't be healed like the other stats.
My suggestion is for folks to stop ruining the Entertainer professions and start giving more to the Chef community. Yes people, between Vasarian Brandy, Vagnerian Canapes, and some Blue Milk, you can keep your mind very happy for a decent amount of time. If you want to stay in the field that extra hour when your Doc buffs are still going strong but you have no entertainer buffs, use food and drink. They work well - but you're going to need to pony up the dough for them. Trust me, the credits are worth it. Stagger your Canapes so you can take em when you need more - they boost focus/willpower in a pinch and last for about 10 minutes, usually more than enough time for a few missions.
You can usually take 2 brandies at once (if they're 50 filling or less) which last about 1/2 hour or so. Some nice BE Brandy boost all of your mind stats by 400+ for 1/2 hour or so. Then, take 1 Canape for about a 600+ boost to focus/willpower. This means that for that 10 minute time frame that canape is effective (and i only use those when i'm really in a bind) your Mind is at +800, and Focus/Willpower are +1400. That's pretty solid right there. Really get hit hard? Canape are usually around 33 filling. Take two more Canape for +1200 or so, so your Focus/Willpower is around +2600 including your brandy. That should get you out of a tight spot to get away, regroup, and have another go.
Not getting Entertainer buffs or having them run out before Doc buffs isn't really a huge deal - there are viable alternatives in-game that let you stay out in the field, just start using them. There is a challenge involved in it, timing the food and drink out so you can take more when you need it. It makes fighting a little more interesting, I think.
Message Edited by Warryyr on 08-11-2004 08:04 AM
Actually, I am five starring this post, it is a good one. I totally agree about the shuttle times, that is an excellent step towards fixing a dependency on buffbots.
I also agree with the food comments. I use a lot of food myself, as well as spices. IfI am somewhere hard, I stack them with Entertainer buffs. A lot depends on your professions as well. If I am in Rifle mode, with just food, maxed out, my specials still eat my mind pool, plus I have little defense and get hit a lot. In Fencer mode, I hardly get hit, so it is not much of an issue.
Food is good though it does help a lot.
Now step back a second, be objective and take another peak into the combatents mind. Not really related to your post Warryyr.
Once somebody Masters their combatent profession, they no longer grow stronger. They are maxed. The only way for them to improve is through better gear and buffs. It's all a vicious circle really, better gear means really hard places, so you want buffs. It takes buffs to be at your max potential. Some people HATE not playing at their max potential.
So yes you don't NEED buffs all the time. Yet some people simply have more fun with buffs. If they find having buffs fun, then you tell them to play without buffs, it is almost like telling them they don't NEED to have fun.
We all need to have fun.
SmedleyLlama wrote:With all due respect... I never mentioned buffs. In fact if you go back and look at every post I've ever made on this subject you will find I have never mentioned buffs as necessary.
BF has been my personal crusade.
But you did
SmedleyLlama wrote:And that is why the Buff Bot first came into being.
Granted not in a "I need buffbots to have fun" way, but you quoted me post in places where I was saying that they was not necessary. I read to me like you was defending them, perhaps I am to defensive about the issue, but it mater a lot to me.
SmedleyLlama wrote:Now... On to the specifics of your post.
What are the dependencies of the Entertainer? Let's see.. They need people with wounds/BF to watch them in order to get healing XP. They need money. Fair enough, but which of those actually keeps them from dancing/playing music and socializing in the cantinas? Neither.
Now let's take the combat player. He needs the medic to heal his wounds - alternative: sit in a camp or Med Center for a little while to heal his wounds. In most cases he needs to find a weaponsmith to make him a weapon (unless he's a brawler) - alternative: Buy it from a vendor ro the bazaar. And he needs an entertainer to heal his mind and BF - alternative: None. Correction.. Resonable alternative: None. He can sit in the med center and have his BF healed over time but at a rate more than three times slower than any other wounds. Add this to the fact that BF is generally 5-6x higher than his HAM wounds and you have a problem.
So, does AFK play need to be addressed? Absolutely. Does the connection between the entertainer and the combat player need to be addressed? Yes.. Just as badly.
If there are no entertainers at all around at all to heal you BF, then it is a server population issue, or a time zone issue. Not a to few entertainer issue. Neither of thoughts two problem make AFK play necessary, they just demand that you change you play style, or perhaps pick up novice entertainer.
If that are entertainers around but you cannot find them is a networking issue, or a pour game design issue. Again neither of troughs require AFK play, you just have to do some networking. When you do find entertainers all you have to do is chat with them and find out when and where they normally play. If there is a large enough tipping positional for BF healing in some place, and entertainers are told about it, then one is bound to take the opportunity to make some credit.
If you read the forums you will find that many entertainers want tool for you to find us when you need us, such as fixing the "registrate location" we had since launch but that never worked.
Now there is one last reason why someone would be unable to get thair BF healed, If the was plenty of entertainers around an they was easy to find and not busy, the combatant had to have been a real jerk to get the all to put him on a /denyservice. And in that case I do not thing any sympathy is needed.