CUEmu - Thread Posts

Meplorium

Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:34 pm

First, that was from the BE correspondent, not the tailor correspondent and on the BE forum, not the tailor forum. Tailor specific stuff should be on the tailor forum. If that post was only about 'tailors' then it was on the wrong forum. Since it was on the BE Forum, that means it is about BE Tissues, not tailor only goods. That means that topic is open for talk about BE Tissues. Unfortunetly the correspondent had it wrong, it is 'BE Tissues' not 'Tailor Tissues'. Sorry, tailors don't make tissues.

The real issue with BE Tissues, I hate to have to highlight that all the time, but some people have difficulty with the concept that BEs make them and not some other profession. The real issue with BE Tissues is that the current BE Tissues are under ulitized. This is because they go into clothes, yet most people only wear armor. The point was why put more tissues in the game that simply won't be used since they can not be used with armor. If you can't get more use for the current tissues, then it is pointless to add more. Sothe first task is to get BE Tissues used more. Then and only then do you add more tissues.Otherwise you have thewhole droid thing once again where you haveeven more useless modules that no one uses. You have to be smart about things.

From a purely BE Prosecptive, increasing BE Tissue use ment getting them to be used with armor. The thread was about new BE Tissues, however problem #1 had to be solved first. Several ideas went around including having more clothing worn with armor and/or having BE Tissues in armor. At that point the thread was hijacked by the tailors who's agenda was to have armor nerfed so they could take over that market.

Do notbe confused here, tailors want to see armor fall so they can take over this market. If they want to make battleware, why don't they just take up armorsmith? I really don't know.Either way, they are looking at having BE Tissues, or tailor tissues as their egos call them, take over the armor market. Being a long time BE that would mean morecredits for me. However I do not wish to see any profession succeed at the expense of another profession. That is what tailors are calling for. I am not in favor of cutting tailors out of the loop. They should have an active role in battleware creation. Course that means subcomponents, which are beneath some it seems. However I think BEs, Armorsmiths, Tailors and all non-Jedi combat professionscan find themselves in a win-win situation if they work to enhance the products rather than trying to nerf other professions' products. Otherwise we find ourselfs in a lose-lose situtation to jedi who don't rely that much on other professions.

BTW I have yet to see any tissue ideas that would help when you get hit for 2k from a krayt. I have yet to see one that helps you when you get hit for 600 from a rancor. Basically there is nothing in the currentBE Tissue line up or any proposed BE Tissue that helps when dealing with actual damage. There are state defenses, easially dealt with by a SL or Doc, bleed defenses (medic), then useful stuff like med use, mask scent, taming tissues. The only way clothes will be a viable alternative is if armor was nerfed badly because it just isn't there in clothes. The only thing that comes close is Melee defense, and that just isn'tpowerful.

If you want clothes to become a viable alternative at least come up with some thing that would make them such. Better yet, come up with a plan that helps out all professions without hurting any of them, like battleware made by BEs, Armorsmiths and Tailors.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
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Srednii

Wed Aug 25, 2004 6:18 pm

#28

wow, you're living in your own little fantasy world with fantasy posts arncha Meplorium. I've just got one thing to say to you.

Drugs are bad, mkay?

------------------------------------------------------------

Sre'dni Vashtar - Bria
sv Armoury -4976, 2712 Corellia

Boooozark

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:03 am

#29

Understood, I posted my feelings in the tailor board thread.

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Boooozark

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:05 am

#30

Srednii wrote:

jeebus, were none of you noobs around when that bug hit that let us put bio tissues in armor? The devs fixed that BUG, and then told us that putting bio bonuses in armor would be overpowering and that it will NEVER happen.

Just drop it allready.

I was around, and I agreed as it was the armor was overpowered. As it is now I feel that some armor is overpowered. Once the combat balance (the armor balance specifically) comes out armor is going to become much more a max/min game where the trade off of HAM's actually counts.

So with that in mind I was thinking that lower level armors could be made to compete with higher level armors on a different front. Using some sort of Tissue structure would give a reason for people to choose low level over high level hours.

Message Edited by Boooozark on 08-25-2004 03:06 PM

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Meplorium

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:08 am

#31

Boooozark wrote:

NJ62 wrote:
This draft has been revised based on your suggestions. Let me know if I'm missing anything.

Tailoring: Correspondent Summit notes

Combat

In general, some tailors prefer to cater to the combat crowd by offering bioengineered clothing or clothing with sockets.

Balance with Armor

Tailors want to be able to compete with armor. As it stands there are no real disadvantages to wearing armor, and no strategic incentives to wear clothing.

There you go. Tailors are wanting armor nerfed so bad that clothes are just as good. So no, I am not making it up.My alt is a wookiee so my only option was BE clothes for a time. I can tell you when going into a fight, armor is much much better than anything a BE/Tailor can make. The only way clothes are going to help when you get hit for 2k of damage is to reduce the damage. That is what armor does. There are two main draw backs, HAM costs and armor decay. So you do get a penalty for using armor. You need buffs which cost money and you need armor which costs money. The reason you would use clothes is an economic one, which is important for some people.

Also I never said that the developers wanting to nerf armor has anything to do with a tailor request. It has to do with armorsmiths getting much better at what they do than what was thought possible. However the tailors are jumping at this chance to get armor further reduced so their clothes can be useful. Also note I wasn't the only BE wanting tissues into armor. That thread on the BE forum was hijacked by the tailors for the most part. There is one Tailor/BE that was in on that too that is very active on that board. I guessthere is some difference in opinion of whattook place in that thread.This thread is also being hijacked by the tailors. I hope that armorsmiths aren't going over to the tailor forum and hijack their thread, as they would be just as rude as the tailors hijacking the BE thread or this thread.

As for keeping tailor viable, I aggree it should be. I do not aggree that it should be at the expense of armorsmith or any other profession. I also feel that tailor should have a different role than armorsmith, i.e. armorsmith for combat wear and tailor for solical wear. Tailors could help make subcomponents for armor that needs experimentation. However making subcomponents seems to be beneath tailors for the most part. As a master artisan and BEI made some excellent subcomponents before. It is a rewarding task, if you aren't so stuck up to do so. That is the problem with tailors and subcomponents. Otherwise they are proud product to produce and very much needed.

There is a key point there: Two different professions for two different roles.

The Devs said that bio tissues would make the armor over powered. This is true when placed into composite. However that isn't what is being asked here. We are asking for it to placed in lower level armors so they would be useful while not being over powered. I've seen tailors ask for the exact same thing where their clothes would give some resists while having the BE tissues in them. That is pretty much the same thing, just different sources.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
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Gyopi

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:18 am

#32

I give up since it is obvious that some people are not able to see the problem with BE tissues in armor. I expect that those who believe that armor is for fighting and clothing is for socializing will take off their armor at all times they are not actively fighting and will buy as many outfits as they can afford to keep us in business. Tell your friends too because I do *not* want to see non-overts wearing armor in the starports anymore. They are not fighting, so they should be wearing clothes.

Momoko--Master Tailor near Kaadara on Lowca--
Come to Sitateya boutique at (5083 5804) on Naboo for elegant fashions, accessories, cute outfits, uniforms or any other clothing needs.
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Boooozark

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:33 am

#33

UGH, I don't want to take tailors out of the equation. (I spoke prematurely and wrongly I might add that tailors didn't have to be part of it)

I'd much rather see tailors be able to make a product BE or Enhancer in general that armorsmiths could add to their armor. I expect after the balance that armor will be taken off when fighting isn't occuring. Heck I'd even promote something where wearing armor continuously causes negeative effects.

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So you guys are Pedro's cousins with all the sweet hookups: Boooozark-I've got what you need.

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JonMichael

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:36 am

#34

Meplorium wrote:

There you go. Tailors are wanting armor nerfed so bad that clothes are just as good. So no, I am not making it up.My alt is a wookiee so my only option was BE clothes for a time. I can tell you when going into a fight, armor is much much better than anything a BE/Tailor can make. The only way clothes are going to help when you get hit for 2k of damage is to reduce the damage. That is what armor does. There are two main draw backs, HAM costs and armor decay. So you do get a penalty for using armor. You need buffs which cost money and you need armor which costs money. The reason you would use clothes is an economic one, which is important for some people.

Also I never said that the developers wanting to nerf armor has anything to do with a tailor request. It has to do with armorsmiths getting much better at what they do than what was thought possible. However the tailors are jumping at this chance to get armor further reduced so their clothes can be useful. Also note I wasn't the only BE wanting tissues into armor. That thread on the BE forum was hijacked by the tailors for the most part. There is one Tailor/BE that was in on that too that is very active on that board. I guessthere is some difference in opinion of whattook place in that thread.This thread is also being hijacked by the tailors. I hope that armorsmiths aren't going over to the tailor forum and hijack their thread, as they would be just as rude as the tailors hijacking the BE thread or this thread.

As for keeping tailor viable, I aggree it should be. I do not aggree that it should be at the expense of armorsmith or any other profession. I also feel that tailor should have a different role than armorsmith, i.e. armorsmith for combat wear and tailor for solical wear. Tailors could help make subcomponents for armor that needs experimentation. However making subcomponents seems to be beneath tailors for the most part. As a master artisan and BEI made some excellent subcomponents before. It is a rewarding task, if you aren't so stuck up to do so. That is the problem with tailors and subcomponents. Otherwise they are proud product to produce and very much needed.

There is a key point there: Two different professions for two different roles.

The Devs said that bio tissues would make the armor over powered. This is true when placed into composite. However that isn't what is being asked here. We are asking for it to placed in lower level armors so they would be useful while not being over powered. I've seen tailors ask for the exact same thing where their clothes would give some resists while having the BE tissues in them. That is pretty much the same thing, just different sources.

(Quoted from NancyJ on the Bio Engineer Forum):

"N'Jessi is going to be pushing for new tailor tissues at the CB summit so to help her out can we put all our ideas for new tailor tissues in this thread, then we can get a balance of what the tailors want and what we want to put forward.
Thanks."

Ok... let's get your statements correct first.

The thread was on the BE Forum entitled "New Tailor Tissues" by the BE Correspondent NancyJ. The direct quote above states what she was asking for. The thread was not hijacked by any Tailors since it *directly* involved BE Tailor tissues. What *was* hijacked about that thread was the added comments about tissues wanting to be added to armor by yourself. The discussion was of Tailor Tissues, not Armor Tissues.

You really need to read all of the posts before responding. Your quote was in reference to developer asked questions of the Tailor Correspondent on how the Tailoring profession could possibly fit directly into the combat rebalance. It is NOT in the top 5 requests from Tailors. Most of us want to only have more enhancements added to clothing, not protection like armor has.

I apologize to to members of the AS Forum for taking *this* thread off topic, but the misinformation of what Tailors are looking for needs to be adressed.

'JonMichael- Master Tailor/Master Image Designer

Srednii

Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:35 am

#35

I read through that thread in the BE forums. That thread was by the BE correspondent in conjunction with the Tailor correspondent asking for ideas for new and improved tissues for clothing.

You hijacked the thread even after you were requested by your correspondent to stay on topic. You're an **edit** Meplorium, end of story.

I view the tailors who ask for resists in their clothing in the same light as I view armorsmiths who ask for be tissues for their armor. Noobs all who suffer from a kind of tunnel vision where all they see is their own proffession. Luckily just like the noob armorsmiths who keep asking for be tissues for armor on a monthly basis, the noob tailors who ask for armor resists in clothing (on a slightly less regular basis, probably because there's a hell of a lot fewer tailors) are a very small minority.

------------------------------------------------------------

Sre'dni Vashtar - Bria
sv Armoury -4976, 2712 Corellia

Meplorium

Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:59 am

#36

Adding in more tissues without making them more useful is like fixing a flat tire on a car with a burned out transmission. It is very stupid to fix one problem before addressing the bigger issue at hand. My points were extremely relivent and to the point and needed addressing before more tissues were added into the game. It was the tailors who decided to have the whole should armor have tissues or not agruement. Just like they came here and hijack this thread.

I have yet to hear any good arguementsagainst tissues goinginto armor just like I have yet to hear any good agruements why clothing shouldn'thave resists. I think the problem is there are people who are short sided and can only seem to insult people rather than having an objective discusion about some issues or ideas. It is that closed mindedness and insultive behavior that hijacks threads, i.e. trolling,not bringing up related issues of a problem that is trying to be fixed. Some people have difficultings understanding what trolling and thread hijacking is it seems.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
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Meplorium

Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:24 pm

#37

BE Tissues belong to BEs, period. We are more than free to explore and give ideas for new uses for them. I can see BE food additives one day going into spices, though chefs might call them 'Chef Tissues'. That would be incorrect as they are BE tissues.

That padded armor thing is what is basically being asked for by tailorsisn't it? Funny how the tailors can see the same thing from only one point of view and not the other point of view. Rather hypicritical if you ask me. It probably is a mute point. The chance of BE tissues going into armor is about as good as clothes actually becoming an alternative to armor, i.e. not going to happen. But we all have a dead horse to beat it seems.

- Meparch (Master Crafter, AS, DE), Mepaarch (MiniMep, Chef, SW), Meparca (Master Wookiee), Mepthorian (Master Naturalist, CH, BE)
Drop Off Vendor: Buffy in the Bacta Tank, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine. -6931 4819
Visit the commerce district, Crystal Hollow, Dantooine.
The Armored Wookiee - Kashyyykian Armor Specialist
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Armorsmith Archive

Thread: Way to merge BE tissues in Armor, and make lower level armor more appealing.