Armorsmith Archive

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

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Liamo wrote:

You proved my point again Zion, anythign I say is a whine or complaint..so funny. Some is just an observation or opinion..and as to you comments - now this is a paraphrase if you don't understand-about putting stuffi n the wild, I had said that certain planets aren't supposed to be "wild" Like Corellia and Naboo.

Did I say I placed stuff on any adventure planets? no.

Did I say this was EQ in space? No. the clostest I have said to that is why people MAY say that. I've never played EQ 1or 2 so I would be wrong to say that.

Also, after you starting the flaming of me on the previous post, where I did NOT personally attack you as you did me, did you expect me to just drop it?

Also, for the record, most of the time I don't wear armor of buff to do my harvester of factory runs, unfortunately with the recent patches, I'm being aggro'd more now, than when I first started and had to walk everywhere. Isn't that an "unbalance" between the crafting professions and combat professions? Was the spawn increase even needed? The last I knew, there were still mission terminals in the game.

I don't know if I can make any comments around you or questions without being accused of needing "Reading Comprehension for Dummies-as you recommended and started this) or whining.

I am stating this in this thread because the Armor Certifications are what's changing and affecting my gameplay. If you want to go down the "whining" path, didn't "whining" bring on the CU? It wasn't a bunch of positive statements.

Anyway, I've said what I'm going to say, unless you decide to add gasoline to the flamefest, I won't be responding. If you want to discuss the points, I will gladly do that.

Message Edited by Liamo on 04-05-2005 06:11 PM

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Good, because you actually brought up some decent points when you weren't crying. Not that I agree, but that last post, you brought up some good food for thought. Previously though it WAS a whine-fest, and you DID need to learn to read because you essentially started this by attacking me and taking what I posted out of the context it was meant to be in, hence a lack of reading comprehension.

So then, if YOU want to actually address my points, as opposed to MAKING UP what you think my points are, I will be happy to discuss them. But that requires you to respond to my ACTUAL points in the first place - not ones you make up and then claim I made.

Look, I am just tired of all the crying and misinformation, and when I try to provide a service by passing on what little information I know, people like you in the original thread butcher it, extrapolate and assume from it when I was very clear and straightforward, that it does indeed PISS ME OFF. It's like I'm the guy telling the girl she looks nice today, and you are the girl responding with "What, so you think I look fat?!" when I was merely paying a complement. If you caught some flak because of my angst with others doing this, then for that at least I can apologize, but not too much, because at least initially, you were one of those people who did that, even if it wasn't to the degree others did.

You ever hear the phrase "Don't shoot the messenger"? Well, I am the messenger, and I shoot back. That known, I am all in favor of civilized discussion. But that doesn't mean I won't take a whiner who just wants to bellyache down a few notches.

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Fair enough /peace

Let me also say there is one thing I like about the CU so far and that's the fact when I was leveling up, it felt like it did when I first leveled up..

I can't stand it that a new person can jump in, get a buff and some comp, and go master in a couple of hours. the new system takes care of that.

In your opinion, is that what the new armor certifications are put in for? If so, it's frustrating but for the greater good of the game, I can see why.

I do think that MA should be able to wear (maybe with little protection) some of the items they make. I don't say all because MDE and SW cannot use all the stuff they make.

I do still hold to the point that they are unbalancing the crafters game by putting some of thse things in. Certain planets would be instant death for crafters-I agree with that (I know crafters going to the Village will hate me for saying that and I hate getting incapped/killed going there but Dathomir is a planet we should fear). Corellia, Naboo, and Talus are not. They should have some spots but overall, they should be pretty safe.

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Liamo wrote:

Fair enough /peace

/peace

Let me also say there is one thing I like about the CU so far and that's the fact when I was leveling up, it felt like it did when I first leveled up..

I can't stand it that a new person can jump in, get a buff and some comp, and go master in a couple of hours. the new system takes care of that.

In your opinion, is that what the new armor certifications are put in for? If so, it's frustrating but for the greater good of the game, I can see why.

Yes, that is one of the reasons. It prevents newer people from soloing high end content. The other thing it does is forces us to choose roles. Believe me, if SWG started with this system, we wouldn't be chaffing like this. But it is because we were in essence given TOO much freedom that people are complaining now. In the end, it is going to make a successful party more diverse, and is going to make people adventure. They will hate it at first, but once they get used to it, they will wonder why they hated it. It's all about people not liking the boat to be rocked, even if that boat has holes in it and is sinking.

I do think that MA should be able to wear (maybe with little protection) some of the items they make. I don't say all because MDE and SW cannot use all the stuff they make.

I see both sides. It would be very nice for a MAS to wear all the armor they can make (with no mitigation, of course), but at the same time, it really isn't crucial. Toss the armor on a vendor or something - armor is going to be so diverse that no one smith will be able to keep everything stocked anyway.

I do still hold to the point that they are unbalancing the crafters game by putting some of thse things in. Certain planets would be instant death for crafters-I agree with that (I know crafters going to the Village will hate me for saying that and I hate getting incapped/killed going there but Dathomir is a planet we should fear). Corellia, Naboo, and Talus are not. They should have some spots but overall, they should be pretty safe.

Well, I agree somewhat, but for a complete non-combat class, perhaps we shouldn't take our safety for granted. We are so used to it right now, but I think it will only help immersion and group-building if we as crafters have to ask for help to clear a spawn from our factories. Aside from a point-of-sale, we really have very little interaction, or possibly none at all, with other people, and this helps us get off our butts and get out into the world.

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

No, it leaves Condition, resists, speed, and accuracy to be experimented on. Also, condition will be a more important factor because with smiths unable to continually crank out composite, that means they will have to up condition, because finding more of the same armor will prove a bit more difficult due to the variety smiths will now have to offer.

This actually brings me back to my point about evaluating the new system under the old rules; you simply can't do that people, because you will be wrong.

You have to meet this system on its own terms, and there is certianly enough information to go around to give people an idea on it. But trying to take the new system, and treat it like some bastardized version of the old one is missing the point entirely, and shows a lack of understanding of the new system. Reread the armor docs, and forget everything you know about the current system - it might help you to grasp the new one more.

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kesstral wrote:

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AlexPKeaton wrote:

OK, heres another concern/question. This Piece of Armorwas looted on TC.

I'm assuming that the "Penalties" section is the Hinderance that has been mentioned in all of the armor crafting documents, and is what reduces your Movement, Speed, and Accuracy. It has been stated that hinderances will not be able to be experimented on so that means that any advanced set of armor will be identical to any other set of armor once people figure out how to max the effectiveness. The only choice to make would be to decide which damage type armor you want to make. With only condition and effectiveness to experiment on, it seems that they've takena lot of the competion, and creativity out of crafting armor.

Message Edited by AlexPKeaton on 04-05-2005 03:35 PM

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Did anyone else notice on that screen shot that the Comp armor is listed as "reconaissance"? Based on the list above, I want to say that either this armor is bugged, or looted armor is goign to be special in that it will allow professions that aren't certified normally to wear it.

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AlexPKeaton wrote:

Hinderances of armor are not just Movement, it involves everything in the "Penalties" category, which are Movement, Rate of Fire, and Accuracy. All of these things are hinderances, which is exactly why all of the armor docs refer to it as hinderences (plural, more than one). Go back and re-read not just this last armor doc but the previous in-development docs, it states that armor will hinder the movement, accuracy, and speed of the user. Unless they've changed this but there is no mention of it in the latest CU docs.

I think I'm grasping the new system just fine. It's basicly giving armorsmiths more diversity in the armor types that they can make but fewer choices in actual crafting process. Don't get me wrong I don't think the system is bad, I'm glad that every person will no longer be running around in Comp and you will see some diversity, I'm just dissappointed that it seems that there won't be as many options available when crafting armor in the way of protection vs penalty.

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This is also one of my main concerns. I don't want to see our profession "dumbed down". I was hoping for a revival of the encumbrance system (or an equivalent as the Hindrances are) which itis meaningful to experiment on. Today, encumbrance is only relevent for the rare special order or for those special RIS pieces we AS like to show off...But it still exist as an option.

If it is indeed the case that we only have resistance and condition to experiment on, I think we should push to Dev's to change that. It would add even more diversity to the armors and a very important tactical element. Do you want to be an immobile steel Tank, or a nimble and deadly accurate quickshot. With the current system, they leave you 3 fixed choices for hindrance for every armor type, with some careful balancing it should be perfectly possible to open this up for experimentation as well.

As for artisans and protection, I also support the idea that all professions should have access to some very basic armor. It does not need to be any of the 3 main armors, maybe a kind of Novice armor? Or maybe a robe wearable only by artisans like the TKA get. Just throwing out ideas here...I am 100% crafter and happily takes my chances on the advanced planets for harvester runs. I bring friends when I can (mostly to clean out lairs) but don't mind travelling alone if they are not available. I have lost an AV-21 on Lok, cried a little, and came back the next day with a cheaper vehicle...The advanced planets should not per definition be off limits to pure crafters on their own.

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Thula wrote:

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Something worthwhile to note:

We don't know for sure that the Penalties section is the same as the Hinderances mentioned in the Combat Docs. They might be, but it would be wise to hold off speculation until we get more confirmation.

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Agree.

If we can experiment on the Penalties, I am a happypuppy

If not, then this is something worth fighting hard for, that is really what I want to flag.

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I know we're trying to avoid speculation, but this would be SWEET. People would get the choice of getting really good, penalty-ridden armor or average armor with fewer/lesser penalties. Their armor choices would have to match their combat styles and abilities. The novice classes would have to take average armor so the penalties don't totally cancel out their fledgling bonuses, while the masters could take better armor since their skills would offset or overcome any penalties.

Holy COW, we'dbe crafting a lot of custom armor by hand. *daydreams*

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ZionHalcyon wrote:

Something worthwhile to note:

We don't know for sure that the Penalties section is the same as the Hinderances mentioned in the Combat Docs. They might be, but it would be wise to hold off speculation until we get more confirmation.

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Agree.

If we can experiment on the Penalties, I am a happypuppy

If not, then this is something worth fighting hard for, that is really what I want to flag.

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R0Man wrote:

I want Armor for My crafter char!!!!!

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