Armorsmith Archive
Thread: 5 not so hard things devs can do to save armorsmithing
FloorPizza
Sun Apr 17, 2005 5:24 pm
#27
Okram2k wrote:
A great post summarizing the way most of us feel about our profession in the CU.
/bmoc okram
HIt it right on the head, as always.
I say we over-ride the devs and keep Okram as our AS correspondent, anyway.
Shambler9
Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:00 am
#29
There was nothing in heritantly wrong with the old system.
I just never get tired of hearing others say this. So, so true.
FignarKrynn
Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:34 am
#30
Well the issue with the organics will end up causing a smell when it hits live because of the cost of this new armor. We are all used to doing factory runs of 46 odd suits atime but i do honestly think the devs don't want you to do that they instead want you to do 3/4 suits on the whim when someone asks for it, explains the huge amount of organics, they don't want big buisness AS's in the game anymore and want more people to take up AS to make up for the shortfall.
Rinviero
Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:16 am
#31
AtonuTragona wrote:
If TKM stays the way it is, you can bet my alts will be TKM stackers - as will everyone else's.
QFE
freedomwarrior
Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:40 am
#34
Ileanna777 wrote:
As far as I know being a Master Carbineer/MBH I don't have a natural armor rating... Only TKA's and Jedi's do, so I am not sure how you are making the assertion that ALL players get free armor rating now that is comparable to crafter armor. Maybe you should try being less sensationalist and a bit more realistic eh?
Okram2k wrote:
Well okay, as every day passes the doom of the armorsmithing profession comes closer and closer. Don't kid yourself, it really is pretty bad on TC right now. The cost to producing armor now far outweighs the rewards, and the system for producing armor is dumbed down for the crafters, while the final product is overly confusing to the average combat player. And all at the same time, natural armor has been implemented that is as good as the best armor worn by players, but for free.
Well here we have 5 things devs can do to save this profession:
#1: Add an experimentation bar.
Make armor crafting more interesting! Not this incredibly boring 1 line for resists and you're done crap that we have in front of us. While this solution is probably the hardest to implement, it would have the most benifits to our profession. First for layers we add one experimentation bar, to effect the penalty of the layer. So it is broken down to primary bar increasing layer resists, while a secondary bar lessens the amount of penalty.
For example, let's take a kinetic layer, if you had 0% experimentation in both bars, the layer would be +0 kin /-100 energy Then if with the maximum experimenation of 100% you would get +100 kin / - 0 Energy. Of course it would be imposible to get either bar to 100%, and hard to get both bars very high. This would greatly benifit higher end smiths who have more experimentation points as they can decrease the cost of adding the layer to armor.
Now for the rest of armor components, we would have three bars, the primary bar would increase kinetic/energy resists, and the secondary bar would increase elemental resistances. This not only benifits us with more experimentation, but makes elemental weapons more potent since armors will have to specalize in either base damage types, or elemental damage types. The breakdown for increase would either be a 75/25 increase to energy/kinetic if the armor type is assault or recon, and then a 50/50 increase for battle armor. While a strait forward influx would work for the elemental bar.
By adding the additional bar to these stages of armor we can greatly increase the customizability of armor, while still maintining the CU system, and not make us feel super dumbed down armorsmiths.
#2: Decrease Resource Usage.
Seriously, a resource increase of more then 4 times what it used to be? Do you really want us charging players 500k per suit for standard run of the mill armor? These resource requirements are just too extreme. While it is acceptable to us that you need to keep armor from reaching 90% all the way down the line, but armor just isn't as good as it used to be, and if armor is not as good, why should it cost more? Increasing the cost to produce armor, and decreasing it's usefullness seriously throws out of whack the cost to benifit ratio and could cripple the armor economy.
#3: Decrease Factory Times
We did the math, and factory times for high end armors is close to double what it used to be. Why does it need to be so high? We have increased resource cost, and now an increased factory production time? This adds even more to the cost for producing armor. I will suggest again, that devs should shoot for an average factory time of10 hour/suit for the highest end armor. This I think is a good goal to have, would be in line with current factory standards, and help us keep the player base equiped with armor. Some smiths already have factories that never stop and they struggle to keep up with orders, when this goes live, they will never be able to keep their vendors stocked.
#4: Stop beating around the bush with armor resists.
Okay, if you want these armor effeciency numbers, keep them in all along the crafting process, but when you put it into the final suit with it's appreance, that the player gets, let's not kid ourselves. Put the % in there. It reduces a percentage of damage just like before. There is no real change in the way armor functions in combat, except with new breakdowns of the way damage types work. We seriously do not need these big numbers that we will be spending an hour explaining to each customer. Put the % in, the game already calculates it.
#5: Make TKM's armor rating assault and not battle.
Plain and simple, a master terras kasi gets a 6000 armor rating, which works out to around 52-53% resistance. I am fine with that for kinetic damage, since they're supposed to be all tough and everything, but it doesn't make sense for having a similar resistance to energy damage types. Simply put, make them an assault armor like system, where they get max armor rating for kinetic, then a reduced amount for energy. If a tkm had 6000 kinetic, 5000 elemental, and 4000 energy, it would help keep them in check, and not make them the end all, free armor template.
Actually in essence you do. In the current level system on test center, your damage you take is also based upon your level. So if you are fighting a mob of equal level, your not going to take full damage, and if you fight stuff of less level than you, then thats even less damage you will be hit with. So in essence, this does act as a natural armor rating of sorts. Then with tkms, you add on top of it this innate natural armor. I dont much mind tkms having this, but it does need to be adjusted so that its not equal for all forms of damage accross the board. Heck, even jedi dont get this unless they take the defender tree which costs 48 points to get. TKMs are basically getting it for free along with their combat abilities.
jbdotcom
Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:42 am
#36
I hope everyone socked away some credits to support your any other character you might be playing, because I have just finished crafting my last piece of armor for now on the TC, and think things are all but finished for the profession if they stay the same.
To reiterate other points in this thread:
1. Armor is not really that useful in PvE as relative combat levels are much more important from a damage stand point. There is honestly no real way to judge the effects of armor on PvP yet, because of all the bugged specials and multipliers and dagame that change daily, except to say that the MTKA armor resists are at least as good as anything we can make.
2. Resource requirements are excessive, especially in the context of the limited utility of armor in general.
3. Factory time when coupled with increased materials requirements basically make a lot of armor not worth the trouble.
4. The simplification of the crafting process has taken away almost any advantage a 12 point smith might have, and the crafting process is both too boring and too time consuming considering the very small rewards in doing things "well".
5. As soon as people figure out armor is not worth the money (and it isn't as it exists on the TC), people will stop buying it.
I don't need to craft anymore armor on TC to figure out it anything. The results are clear.
JB
Hondor64
Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:44 pm
#38
i agree with everything youve said here. i've been trying to keep an open mind but my main is a master artisan/AS/Merchant and has some rifleman to shoot things. nwo with the new setup i won't have enough free sp to keep my novice rifleman 
so i get no armor, i get no hp bonus it bogus.
so i get no armor, i get no hp bonus it bogus.also ya fighting anything over 3 levels higher then you makes your armor useless. and you don't really need it for fighting things your level.
the armor requirements/time/names ext is all wonked and i miss my experimentation. i enjoy with the curent system thinking do i wana pump that into quality or into special. or maybe lower encumb. but man... i'm thinking for the first time really about re-canceling my acounts and going back to FFXI. i came back here b/c i love the crafting system in this game. compared to FFXI this crafting system *used* to run circles around it.
gunner4life
Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:01 am
#39
Okram2k wrote:
Well okay, as every day passes the doom of the armorsmithing profession comes closer and closer. Don't kid yourself, it really is pretty bad on TC right now. The cost to producing armor now far outweighs the rewards, and the system for producing armor is dumbed down for the crafters, while the final product is overly confusing to the average combat player. And all at the same time, natural armor has been implemented that is as good as the best armor worn by players, but for free.
Well here we have 5 things devs can do to save this profession:
#1: Add an experimentation bar.
Make armor crafting more interesting! Not this incredibly boring 1 line for resists and you're done crap that we have in front of us. While this solution is probably the hardest to implement, it would have the most benifits to our profession. First for layers we add one experimentation bar, to effect the penalty of the layer. So it is broken down to primary bar increasing layer resists, while a secondary bar lessens the amount of penalty.
For example, let's take a kinetic layer, if you had 0% experimentation in both bars, the layer would be +0 kin / -100 energy Then if with the maximum experimenation of 100% you would get +100 kin / - 0 Energy. Of course it would be imposible to get either bar to 100%, and hard to get both bars very high. This would greatly benifit higher end smiths who have more experimentation points as they can decrease the cost of adding the layer to armor.
Now for the rest of armor components, we would have three bars, the primary bar would increase kinetic/energy resists, and the secondary bar would increase elemental resistances. This not only benifits us with more experimentation, but makes elemental weapons more potent since armors will have to specalize in either base damage types, or elemental damage types. The breakdown for increase would either be a 75/25 increase to energy/kinetic if the armor type is assault or recon, and then a 50/50 increase for battle armor. While a strait forward influx would work for the elemental bar.
By adding the additional bar to these stages of armor we can greatly increase the customizability of armor, while still maintining the CU system, and not make us feel super dumbed down armorsmiths.
#2: Decrease Resource Usage.
Seriously, a resource increase of more then 4 times what it used to be? Do you really want us charging players 500k per suit for standard run of the mill armor? These resource requirements are just too extreme. While it is acceptable to us that you need to keep armor from reaching 90% all the way down the line, but armor just isn't as good as it used to be, and if armor is not as good, why should it cost more? Increasing the cost to produce armor, and decreasing it's usefullness seriously throws out of whack the cost to benifit ratio and could cripple the armor economy.
#3: Decrease Factory Times
We did the math, and factory times for high end armors is close to double what it used to be. Why does it need to be so high? We have increased resource cost, and now an increased factory production time? This adds even more to the cost for producing armor. I will suggest again, that devs should shoot for an average factory time of 10 hour/suit for the highest end armor. This I think is a good goal to have, would be in line with current factory standards, and help us keep the player base equiped with armor. Some smiths already have factories that never stop and they struggle to keep up with orders, when this goes live, they will never be able to keep their vendors stocked.
#4: Stop beating around the bush with armor resists.
Okay, if you want these armor effeciency numbers, keep them in all along the crafting process, but when you put it into the final suit with it's appreance, that the player gets, let's not kid ourselves. Put the % in there. It reduces a percentage of damage just like before. There is no real change in the way armor functions in combat, except with new breakdowns of the way damage types work. We seriously do not need these big numbers that we will be spending an hour explaining to each customer. Put the % in, the game already calculates it.
#5: Make TKM's armor rating assault and not battle.
Plain and simple, a master terras kasi gets a 6000 armor rating, which works out to around 50% resistance. I am fine with that for kinetic damage, since they're supposed to be all tough and everything, but it doesn't make sense for having a similar resistance to energy damage types. Simply put, make them an assault armor like system, where they get max armor rating for kinetic, then a reduced amount for energy. If a tkm had 6000 kinetic, 5000 elemental, and 4000 energy, it would help keep them in check, and not make them the end all, free armor template.
Message Edited by Okram2k on 04-16-2005 06:58 PM
regarding points #2 and #3 , if the condition of armor was incresed 2 to 3 times what it is on live i think that would solve the problem . customers wont mind paying a lot more if the armor lasts a lot longer . also since you will be selling andcraftingless suits of armor ( but making more credits per piece ) the incresesd factory time will also balance out .