Armorsmith Archive
Thread: ENOUGH. Lets get back on track. How can we make the CURB AS better?
TheCapn2000
Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:59 am
#27
ship...iceburg...sink...bubbles.....
ZionHalcyon wrote:
No, your reading is not fine. I am not trying to lead anyone, nor have I ever declared myself a leader. YOU put those words in my mouth. I am just a smith trying to put forth something positive in a forum of negativity.
And yes, I am aware my diplomatic skills need work - its a work in progress.
TwisRule
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:00 am
#28
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Rancor418 wrote:
Oh and there is nothing "we" can do about it.
Please, there are enough threads out there for you to complain in.
Please stop trolling this one.
He stated his position that there is nothing we can do about it, I fail to see how that is trolling. There have been many threads created which offer suggestions to improve the CU situation for armorsmiths. They have almost all been summarily dismissed by the development team. If you really wanted to "get back on track", you would have tried to bring those threads back to the top of AS forum and keep them there. Instead, you create a new thread to try and get AS's to repeat what they have already said over and over and over and over. My guess is you have applied for the AS correspondent position and are getting an early start on trying to show you can "lead" the community. Sorry, I think right now you aregoing to see a lot of opposition as youmove forward in your bid to become the voice of the AS profession. Most AS's were quite happy with the previous correspondent and will likely see your thread as nothing more than grandstanding for the sake of promoting your own candidacy to fill the position.
DarkSmyth
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:02 am
#29
Ham-Jo wrote:
What Zion doesnt seem to realize is that he's sucking up to the wrong people.
The community doesnt pick you.....and its a good thing its that way...otherwise your application would have been thrown in the trash immediately.
Zion please keep yourself in check. And dont posts threads to make yourself look as if your in a leadership type posistion. IF you really know what the AS community needs.......then you wouldn't be doing this period.
QFE
Like I said before... shut up already.
ZionHalcyon
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:02 am
#30
Ham-Jo wrote:
How about you work on them in a forum that possibly your not disliked in. Might work better for you.
Basically what everyone is saying....is IF you truely knew what was right to do....or knew what the community needed....then you wouldnt start threads that make you APPEAR to try to put your self on that pedestal. No one said you were a leader....they were insuing that your are ACTING like it inappropriately.
No to the first part. I am an Armorsmith, and here I will stay. Get used to it.
To the second, on the one hand I hear what you are saying, but on the other, can you at least put yourself in my shoes? I am merely trying to promote proactive thought given the constraints we seem to have been given, rather than sit back and complain about the constraints that likely will not be going away.
More to the point, why should only designated leaders be expected to come up with constructive posts? That is what your post seems to be hinting at, and I disagree that only designated leaders be allowed to promote proactive thinking.
Katosan
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:05 am
#31
Hang it up Zion, I'm beginning to think we're just going to have to wait and see what the devs give us.
ZionHalcyon
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:11 am
#32
DiceDuP wrote:
We're fedup of brainstorming - we've been doing it for weeks - we bring things to the table - the correspondent voiced many of them - nothing was done OR suggested to us that what we were asking for was wrong, or any options that could be implemented.
Basically, speaking for myself, I and i'm sure many others simply cannot be bothered to put in efforts to think up new ideas and ways of changing it. All that is left is for us to either leave the profession, or take it up the rear and put up with it and attempt to make the best of a bad job. The latter needs no more input from AS or the need for a new correspondent. What's done is done, and thats it. You can attempt to take the lead, but you would be leading a bunch of people that wouldn't listen to you, or give you positive feedback and suggestions. The CU is coming, AS isnt really that important to the balance of combat anymore and that is basically it, there is nothing we can do about it - last nite's actions proved that.
Thank you.
At least this was something that I can see and understand, backed with reason and logic. I understand the frustration, believe me. Armorsmiths have been told change is coming, deal with it. I totally get that.
I guess I just feel, based on how things were communicated, that things could have been better handled with regards to the CURB goes.
Look, no matter what, what Okram did in the end was wrong. It was a bad decision for a noble cause, but the cause being noble does not change the fact that it was a horribly bad decision. In fact, the people who support what he did frighten me, as that should not have been seen as an alternative by any rational human being (referring to the mail-bombing here).
But, even given that, I at least hold out hope that there is a way to reach the devs, and get positive change to AS - maybe not in time for the CURB, but at least in time for the following publish.
Everything I do, even putting up with people who troll me and wish I would just go away, is out of love for this profession, dedication for this profession. So I am not going anywhere.
Still, I want to help Armorsmith any way I can, while at the same time realizing the truth and reality of the CURB, on what can be changed, and what cannot. I just believe that in all the previous AS brainstorming, the latter of the last statement was never even considered, which is why I think a post like my original one here can succeed in being heard, where all others in the past have failed.
Hey, this might fail too (and it already is due to trolling), but it will not stop me from fighting for a profession that I love. And at least I haven't given up the fight yet...
Rapunzels
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:12 am
#33
Zion, you still don't get it. For weeks we have made recommendations, posted issues, discussed changes to the CU system to at least make it bearable, and each time it was ignored. And each time your response was to say, fine I'll take it from the devs and so should you because the Devs and Zion are better than everyone else. Hush already.
Our correspondent condensed and posted our concerns, if you'd like to help, support that thread.
Rypht
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:14 am
#34
What we can do?
- We need the resource/time/factory demands of all armors be reduced further.
- We need acrafter specific type of armor, completely non-wearable by someone with combat skills (novice included), give it two experimentation lines, the standard resist experimentation, and for the second experimentable line... a combat level modifier, so it reduces the combat level difference to something survivable, maybe with maximumexperimentation it would reduce the combat level difference by 85-90%, but give it like 1/3 the total condition of combat armor.
- PSGs need to be made useful, again implimenting a combat level modifier might work but much reduced of that of the crafter armor, maybe cap at 15% reduction in combat level difference (since this can be worn by all players combatant and non-combatant it needs to be stated that it must be made so that it does not lower the combat level below that of the player, it must lessen the divide but not reverse advantage), also needs to be resistant to both kinetic and energy, the opening can be the elemental damages.
- Give all combat armor some sort of secondary experimentation line, since the two main armor skills given to combatantsaremovement and accuracy based, perhaps allow armorsmiths to experiment to give enhanced movement or accuracy (and let the combatant's skills do the rest to revealing that).
- For faction armor, make it a quest to permanently attain the appearance schematics, or make it a hefty initial FP purchase from a recruiter but make it permanent,continuously demanding faction points will keep the price on these unnecessarily high and people will optout for armor that is exactly the same quality but cheaper. The reason people want faction armor in the game is it will help with the starwars feel to the game, this is not the time to turn around and put a strangle hold on the supply lines of these things.
- The Faction Armor bio-linking is dumb, lose it or come up with something better.
I'll add more if I think of anything else.
Ham-Jo
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:14 am
#35
ZionHalcyon wrote:
No to the first part. I am an Armorsmith, and here I will stay. Get used to it.
Spoken like a person that is true to what he says......
Actually not really. Pfft.
I find it funny for someone that has spent months flaming people and the like to come here and immediately EXPECT to be heard. Give it up man, it isnt gonna happen.
Message Edited by Ham-Jo on 04-15-2005 10:15 AM
Grendelwyf
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:15 am
#36
if you want to help, stop posting here. you incite flames from your past actions and it does no good for the community. let others make these "constructive" posts so that the flaming stops. you are the lighter fluid to this community's spark. nothing constructive will come of anything you try to do.
ZionHalcyon
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:16 am
#37
Rypht wrote:
What we can do?
- We need the resource/time/factory demands of all armors be reduced further.
- We need acrafter specific type of armor, completely non-wearable by someone with combat skills (novice included), give it two experimentation lines, the standard resist experimentation, and for the second experimentable line... a combat level modifier, so it reduces the combat level difference to something survivable, maybe with maximumexperimentation it would reduce the combat level difference by 85-90%, but give it like 1/3 the total condition of combat armor.
- PSGs need to be made useful, again implimenting a combat level modifier might work but much reduced of that of the crafter armor, maybe cap at 15% reduction in combat level difference (since this can be worn by all players combatant and non-combatant it needs to be stated that it must be made so that it does not lower the combat level below that of the player, it must lessen the divide but not reverse advantage), also needs to be resistant to both kinetic and energy, the opening can be the elemental damages.
- Give all combat armor some sort of secondary experimentation line, since the two main armor skills given to combatantsaremovement and accuracy based, perhaps allow armorsmiths to experiment to give enhanced movement or accuracy (and let the combatant's skills do the rest to revealing that).
- For faction armor, make it a quest to permanently attain the appearance schematics, or make it a hefty initial FP purchase from a recruiter but make it permanent,continuously demanding faction points will keep the price on these unnecessarily high and people will optout for armor that is exactly the same quality but cheaper. The reason people want faction armor in the game is it will help with the starwars feel to the game, this is not the time to turn around and put a strangle hold on the supply lines of these things.
- The Faction Armor bio-linking is dumb, lose it or come up with something better.
I'll add more if I think of anything else.
Thank you for taking this thread seriously.
firehammer
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:18 am
#38
Ok, I'm going to stick up a bit for Zion here, even though I disagree. It is entirely possible that the only way to get changes is to work within the current system. That said, I will not be an "Glorified Tailor" in the new system, I simply refuse. When the data comes back on armor effectiveness we will really know how screwed we are/or how much profit can be made. So far, my guess is that players will figure out that they basically do not need armor about a week or 2 after the game launches. My reasoning behind this is this. On test center I am solely and armorsmith, Greater Shaupauts hit me for like 900 damage, and any mob I have seen is an instant incap. However, when I grouped with my probot it brought my level up - significantly reducing the amount of damage I took. Damage is based on level first, then maybe armor... So if you are a level 40 Rifleman - you basically would have to be attacking a level 38-42 creature to have your armor do much of anything, or PVP - which I loathe with a passion. But, I suppose we will get actual hard data soon. If it turns out the way I think it will... there will be no reason to get changes in the current system, as our armor market will be dead post-curb. Inflation+Decreased Demand = The end of armorsmith. The devs at least got that formula right.
That Said, Live on Armorsmith rebellion! But focus your energy on being productive now, not flaming. The post about getting magizine reporters in the mix is money. A negitive article in gamepro/gamers world/pc games would be an insanely powerful tool.
Message Edited by firehammer on 04-15-2005 08:22 AM
Nitwit
Fri Apr 15, 2005 8:18 am
#39
ZionHalcyon wrote:
Look, I know I have rubbed many people the wrong way. I know part of that is my fault (frustration after living though a similar experience with Creature Handler back in the day), and part of it is me dealing with people who haven't cooled down yet.
So I guess what I am asking, is that everyone take a deep breath (including myself), and let it out slowly.
/deepbreath
Ahhhh...
Ok, now on to business.
I know not everyone will agree with this premise - too many people want the old crafting system in the CURB. But lets say that, no matter what, certifications will stay, mitigations will stay, hinderances will stay, hide will not be removed from the crafting process, bio-linking will stay,and no more resists will be added or removed.
Operating under those assumptions, staying completely ON TASK, and given what we currently know about the CURB, how would you improve it?
Keep in mind, things like "putting the old system back" do not apply here, because that would fail to consider the premise.
Please, it's really important to stick to that premise. Given all that, what would you do? Lower resource costs? Shorten factory times? Reduce the FP needed to equip a faction suit and bio-link it? Split the exp line into several lines? and How?
Please, keep the balance of the game in mind at all times, and outright ignore anyone who trolls or flames.
I put this post up, because I think if the community can take a deep breath and come to the table here with ideas and creativity, we can save this profession.
Given my reputation, I know this is asking a lot, and is sort of a leap of faith that people will actually respond like I asked, as opposed to dragging this post down in flames like all the other ones, but I am still passionate about Armorsmith, and I love it as much as the rest of you. I just feel that had we taken this direction in the first place, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. You might disagree, and that's ok.
All I ask is that people stick to the premise, and remain civil. And you might surprise yourself with the neat things we can come up with, and might be even more surprised when those ideas are fought for, and implemented.
Its a leap of faith, but for both of us. Trust me on this: follow through here, and not only can we leave these dark times behind us - we can begin to see a bright future ahead.
There isn't a thing we can do about it...as we have observed over the night, people get banned for expressing extreme outrage at SOE's practices.
The only true thing you can do is:
cd c:\program files\LucasArts
deltree StarWarsGalaxies